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View Poll Results: Do you consider the UMD as your representative for the Macedonian Diaspora?
Yes 2 4.35%
No 44 95.65%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-24-2009, 02:59 AM   #701
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Originally Posted by Buktop View Post
Why do you people feel entitled to responses from UMD and METO on an internet forum? Why don't you send them e-mails with questions or attend one of their workshops. If you don't like something about UMD why don't you get off your asses and do something about it instead of gang style internet bashing led by the likes of Paul who obviously has his own personal vendetta against the organization.
A direct email was sent to them 5 days ago and still no response, how is it they have time to post on the forum? Futhermore all of the questions were valid and had nothing to do with bashing them - they are legitimate questions which require answers.
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Old 12-24-2009, 03:57 AM   #702
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...if UMD struggles with one or two vocal critics on a forum site how does it cope with the 'BIG-boys' at the top end of town...?
Easy, the big end of town is all about pats on the back, smiles and lots of handshakes.

This forum attracts a huge readership. It is a worthy instrument for delivering messages to the Macedonian Diaspora and a useful marketing tool for them. It is not unreasonable to reciprocate with public dialogue.
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Old 12-24-2009, 04:11 AM   #703
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Originally Posted by Buktop View Post
Why do you people feel entitled to responses from UMD and METO on an internet forum?
Because UMD posts here.
I noted another locked advertisement by UMD posted on Maknews the other day. I am not sure if it still there. But that kind of thing does not happen here unless an organisation contributes to and fundamentally accepts the Macedonian Cause as a matter of fact. To be honest, even then I prefer not to lock a thread because debate is healthy.

Here is a tip Buktop, the UMD will dissolve tomorrow if nobody pays for membership. I would suggest it is the paying members of UMD who are the most interested in honest and transparent responses. And it pays to keep the members happy.

Such ample opportunity to defend themselves and we have such guarded and cryptic responses. I want to know if Meto copped it hard from the rest of the executive committee for his acceptance of a changed name. I also want to know if he can influence the UMD to such an extent that he gets what he wants. If it is indeed effectively a one man show, then quite frankly, we need another organisation that represents the Macedonian Diaspora.
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Old 12-24-2009, 08:02 AM   #704
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Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
Are the questions we are asking in expectation of some 'top secret' information or responses for the eyes of certain individuals only? We are the Macedonian Diaspora, they claim to represent the Macedonian Diaspora, we are entitled to responses based on that fact alone. What sort of representatives are they when on the one hand they willingly participate on our forum yet on the other refuse to answer questions? Why is it a problem for the UMD to answer questions in public? Why is it a problem for you? People like you dramatize it to such an extent that anybody would think we are asking for their banking details.

Gang-style internet bashing? I am no enemy of the UMD, I have made it clear several times that I agree totally with neither the UMD or Pelister, but as a Macedonian from the Diaspora I want the UMD to engage and interact with the people they are supposed to represent, I want them to clear the air and come out with some strength of character, of which I am sure they are capable. That would be much better than simply referring all questions to some info.com link, and I don't see how it would differ if it was done in a public seminar type of environment, personal email, or on this forum, it will all feed back to the public somehow, as it should, so it would be better for them to make their statements open and have the public view them first hand. There aren't a 1000 Macedonian forums requesting the same thing, in fact, apart from the MTO and Maknews, I doubt there are many if any at all.

By the way Buktop, you can leave your 'gang-style' attitude at Maknews where it belongs, because it has no place here, nor do you have some dictator to come and 'bulldoze' through the voice of Macedonians from Australia, Europe or elsewhere (including the Americas) because he doesn't agree with their opinions. Perhaps it has been to your benefit in such an arrangement, but here at the MTO we have 4 people that have equal responsibility as administrator's which ensures a much higher degree of objectivity.
Hey don't get me wrong SoM, I have no problem with public debate, just dont think you are fucking entitled to a personal response by UMD.

Are you a member of UMD? If not, why do you think you are entitled to a response? They do not claim to represent all of us, they represent their members and future members.

I am sick and tired of reading through endless posts UMD did this, UMD didnt do that, FUCK, if you guys are so fed up with UMD do something about it, dont fucking cry about it on some forum and then expect something to be done about it. Join up, or attend their meetings and give your opinion. As of right now all you people are doing is GANG BASHING. And yes that is what it is called when a group of people get together and try to see who can hate the UMD the most.

If it is at all possible I would really like to know why 100% of UMD opposition is coming from Australia? I'm not saying all Australians hate UMD, but it seems that all or most opposition is coming from there.
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Old 12-24-2009, 08:12 AM   #705
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Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
Because UMD posts here.
I noted another locked advertisement by UMD posted on Maknews the other day. I am not sure if it still there. But that kind of thing does not happen here unless an organisation contributes to and fundamentally accepts the Macedonian Cause as a matter of fact. To be honest, even then I prefer not to lock a thread because debate is healthy.
No problem with that

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Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
Here is a tip Buktop, the UMD will dissolve tomorrow if nobody pays for membership. I would suggest it is the paying members of UMD who are the most interested in honest and transparent responses. And it pays to keep the members happy.
Are you a paying member of UMD? If not why do you expect them to respond to your questions? Do you contribute to UMD? Are a serious potential contributor? Answer honestly.

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Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
Such ample opportunity to defend themselves and we have such guarded and cryptic responses. I want to know if Meto copped it hard from the rest of the executive committee for his acceptance of a changed name. I also want to know if he can influence the UMD to such an extent that he gets what he wants. If it is indeed effectively a one man show, then quite frankly, we need another organisation that represents the Macedonian Diaspora.
Show me where Meto accepted a changed name? And what leads you to believe that it is a one man show? Meto is an employee of UMD he is not the sole leader of it, he volunteered to be a full time employee, sacrificing all of his time and effort to serve the Macedonian diaspora.
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Old 12-24-2009, 04:47 PM   #706
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Originally Posted by Buktop View Post
Are you a paying member of UMD? If not why do you expect them to respond to your questions? Do you contribute to UMD? Are a serious potential contributor? Answer honestly.
I believe I am a "family" member. But am thinking carefully about renewing my membership. I encouraged many members from Australia to join a while back. So much so that I was thanked personally for the immediacy of new memberships at one point.

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Originally Posted by Buktop View Post
Show me where Meto accepted a changed name? And what leads you to believe that it is a one man show?
Have you not seen the Youtube link? Check out some of the links from Vangelovski and Pelister. I hope you are not just dismissing their posts because you feel they are raving lunatic patriotic Macedonians who reside in Australia.

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Originally Posted by Buktop View Post
Meto is an employee of UMD he is not the sole leader of it, he volunteered to be a full time employee, sacrificing all of his time and effort to serve the Macedonian diaspora.
Now I am a little annoyed with you. In your previous response to SoM you made it clear the UMD does not represent all of us, only their members. It is a common (and convenient reply). You do realise that you are now adding to this confusion don't you? Would you accept that it is a convenient bit of confusion that this generates.

Lord knows I would do it, but I would also represent the Macedonian Diaspora whilst doing it.

Is the Macedonian Diaspora that different in the USA vs Australia? Have a look at the Macedonian Cause and let me know if anything offends you. We are yet to hear whether anything in it offends the UMD.

http://macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1303

How do you guys say it? .... Happy Festivus.
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Old 12-24-2009, 07:11 PM   #707
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Buktop, Are you the UMD Portparol??

You have to understand that we are in a critical situation and we must remain united, but you are openly stating that anybody who has questions and concerns is a liar or a Grkoman and it will only put further uncertainty on the UMD and it will cast doubt on future members.

The way you portray the UMD Buktop is like some private organization which only cares about its members and its represents them in the Macedonian Diaspora. This is where the danger comes in because when any group decides to privatize the name Macedonian Diaspora it is a problem around the world because the last thing we need is dozens of diaspora groups getting members and talking pro Macedonian to satisfy the others.

We have the Macedonian Alliance in Australia and i thought they did a wonderful job for a while, they are still active but very much in the shadows.

We are a small country and our diaspora is not that big, we cant have dozens of organizations representing our diaspora. We had this problem in 2001 when the conflict occurred where people just kept opening up bank accounts there was around 17 accounts for people to donate money and it was a complete waste. Its amazing how people can do as they please simply because there is no discipline and no unity, this is why we are not getting anywhere.

Buktop, Metodija said in a recent interview that the UMD has 4000 members World Wide and that he has heard reports it could be up to 50,000 how does that work?? Here is the quote

Quote:
КОЛОСКИ: Нашата организација има околу 4000 членови низ светот. Нашата база на податоци има информации за околу 50 000 членови низ светот, така да на тој начин опфаќаме голем број на Македонци низ светот. Ние имаме канцеларија во Вашингтон. Тоа е наша прва канцеларија, многу значајна бидејќи тоа е прва канцеларија на некоја македонска организација во главниот град на САД. Присутни сме во Торонто и Мелбурн, а од јануари планираме отворање на канцеларија во Париз. Мислиме дека на тој начин ќе придонесеме за ширење на нашите и интересите на македонски организации ширум светот.
Do you agree that the UMD needs to take responsibility and restructure its organization?? You cant Americanize a lobby group with the name Macedonia in it because you have to think like a Macedonian and think about our mentality and how we all think as Macedonians. Our arses are on the line with this name dispute and the Diaspora needs to be the most vocal out of everyone i feel the Human Rights groups in Toronto and Melbourne have been very good however the UMD lacks credibility in its official press releases because they represent everyone in the name of Macedonia, just like the Human Rights groups represent. When our name and identity is on the line you dont think about offending somebody you look to defend yourself just look at the Greeks as an example and they are not loosing their name and identity like we are and yet they are hitting us with everything while we hold back and think about others.

Buktop, i notice you tend to say that UMD have volunteers and that its not their job to waste their time etc etc Mate the UMD doesnt have people skills, the UMD needs to take responsibility, the UMD needs to gain the trust of all Macedonians in the Diaspora and the UMD needs to be strong. Forget the bickering, there needs to be a proper structure in place, it makes no difference if you are a fully payed employee or a volunteer you need to be a professional and you need to know how to handle the people and always look for a solution to every problem. This is a sensitive issue and you have to understand that, heads should be rolling for this so if somebody is in doubt you look for ways to resolve it. We are not discussing how many Tulumbi somebody ate at the social club our name and identity is on the line and that needs to be looked at very seriously not have people being knocked back and labeled as Grkomani or whatever.

This is a democracy not Communism, we have a right to a say and like Phoenix says question everything and see what you can do to make things better. Once you resolve the key issues we move on to doing what is right for us and for every Macedonian outside of the country. If you are going to have the US vs THEM battle you wont get anywhere, you say that 100% of the people who are against the UMD come from Australia well the UMD should fix that and they can do it dont think that they cant they just need to look for a solution not point fingers at certain individuals.

You are not used to this much pressure because the majority of you people in North America are served by the groups, you only complain when the end result is terrible and then point fingers on whose fault it is which is all for nothing, Zhelezoto se kova dur e vrelo koga ke se oladi nishto ne prajme.

Now im not stating that we in Australia are perfect and that you guys in North America are terrible however you cant blame us for thinking differently and that we should question whatever we feel is necessary and yes our name and identity is very important and we should both be pushing for a solution and help out anyway we can not give eachother lessons on how to behave and what not to say. You need to look at the big picture and regain the trust, you just have to try it and you will be surprised that many people want to see a strong UMD that will truly be the voice of every Macedonian in our Diaspora.
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Old 12-24-2009, 10:53 PM   #708
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Originally Posted by Buktop View Post
Hey don't get me wrong SoM, I have no problem with public debate, just dont think you are fucking entitled to a personal response by UMD.

Are you a member of UMD? If not, why do you think you are entitled to a response? They do not claim to represent all of us, they represent their members and future members.

I am sick and tired of reading through endless posts UMD did this, UMD didnt do that, FUCK, if you guys are so fed up with UMD do something about it, dont fucking cry about it on some forum and then expect something to be done about it. Join up, or attend their meetings and give your opinion. As of right now all you people are doing is GANG BASHING. And yes that is what it is called when a group of people get together and try to see who can hate the UMD the most.

If it is at all possible I would really like to know why 100% of UMD opposition is coming from Australia? I'm not saying all Australians hate UMD, but it seems that all or most opposition is coming from there.
Wow, this is now getting quite scary...

Why shouldn't SoM or any other concerned Macedonian be entitled to a personal response from UMD, anybody taking the time to write to UMD should be shown the respect to a personal response from a UMD representative...if UMD want to post on forum sites they should be expected to reply there as well...why should UMD be excluded from this universal responsibility.

But this is the real sticking point with me, this belief that only UMD members are entitled to criticism and questioning, that UMD represents its financial members ONLY...sorry pal, you can stick that idea up your arse...

If an organization claims that it represents the "Macedonian Diaspora" it can't trade on the goodwill of the entire Macedonian diaspora but actively represent the interests of a small number of financial members only...

If UMD or any other group that claims it represents Macedonian and diaspora interest wants to trade only for its financial members I strongly suggest they adopt a totally appropriate name for this purpose, one that doesn't confuse the masses that it is representative of them...and the first starting point could be the removal of the terms "United" and "Diaspora"

How 'bout something like... "The Coalition of North American Arse Kissers"

With a suitable disclaimer...

"The views depicted by this organization are those of its self serving financial members only. Any similarity to any organization that claims it represents the Macedonian Diasapora is merely coincidental."
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Old 12-25-2009, 01:44 AM   #709
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I am not a financial member of the UMD, however, that does not give them the right to say they represent the interests of the entire Macedonian diaspora. They dont reflect my views.
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Old 12-25-2009, 02:18 AM   #710
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Hey don't get me wrong SoM, I have no problem with public debate, just dont think you are fucking entitled to a personal response by UMD.
Don't get you wrong? You come here to our forum with this divisive attitude that you have honed over at Maknews with your 'bulldozer' buddy, hurling all sorts of profanities, and presume to tell me what I am and not entitled to? Maybe you've hatched your head out of Maknews' arse a little too soon, don't get me wrong, of course.
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They do not claim to represent all of us, they represent their members and future members.
So if I don't pay, I have no say? Perhaps that can be a new slogan for this 'non-profit' organisation. When Meto or somebody else makes a statement, do they make it on behalf of the UMD membership or the Macedonian Diaspora?
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I am sick and tired of reading through endless posts UMD did this, UMD didnt do that, FUCK
If you can't take criticism then don't read it, quite simple, don't you think?
Quote:
if you guys are so fed up with UMD do something about it, dont fucking cry about it on some forum and then expect something to be done about it.
We are trying to better them by giving them our criticism, so they can be more in line wiith the sentiments of the Macedonian Diaspora they claim to represent.
Quote:
And yes that is what it is called when a group of people get together and try to see who can hate the UMD the most.
Yes it is, but unfortunately, and not for the first time, you have misunderstood what is happening here. You interpret criticism (constructive or otherwise) as hate, the trait of a loser who has nothing credible to respond with.
Quote:
If it is at all possible I would really like to know why 100% of UMD opposition is coming from Australia? I'm not saying all Australians hate UMD, but it seems that all or most opposition is coming from there.
All or most? Leaving some room for error, to slither out of the blanket assertions you have made towards the Macedonian community in Australia? People like you and Maknews have done a fine job in alienating the UMD from large segments of the Macedonian Diaspora, and now more than ever, people are convinced that there is something really wrong with this whole situation.
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