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View Poll Results: Do you consider the UMD as your representative for the Macedonian Diaspora?
Yes 2 4.35%
No 44 95.65%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-26-2010, 05:45 AM   #1801
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Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
So we don't agree and we're now back to stage one.
While I do agree in the theoretical sense, reading the constitution tells a different story, and as we all know the highest source of law, the mandate of the government is the constitution.

Perhaps RoM should redefine itself in terms of what kind of government they actually have. As pointed out earlier, former communist party leaders were involved in it's drafting.
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Old 01-26-2010, 05:49 AM   #1802
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Originally Posted by Rogi View Post
Vangelovski, they may open it to public debate and referendum.

However, according to the Constitution, specifically Article 131, they do not need to - the Assembly can make any and all amendments at will.

Therein again lies the flaws of the Constitution which does not have any checks and bounds to prevent abuse of power.

It does seem more and more that in Macedonia, if it is not specifically illegal, then it is legal and if it is not specifically Unconstitutional, then it is allowed by the Constitution.
Rogi, I'm not going to repost everything I've written, maybe you could save me some time and read my posts on the constitution.
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Old 01-26-2010, 05:54 AM   #1803
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Originally Posted by Buktop View Post
While I do agree in the theoretical sense, reading the constitution tells a different story, and as we all know the highest source of law, the mandate of the government is the constitution.

Perhaps RoM should redefine itself in terms of what kind of government they actually have. As pointed out earlier, former communist party leaders were involved in it's drafting.
Buktop,

You can't seperate the "theory" from the constitution (or "practice") - by doing so, you can just about justify anything. That's a ridiculous notion and I'm not even going to go there.
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Old 01-26-2010, 06:01 AM   #1804
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Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
Buktop,

You can't seperate the "theory" from the constitution (or "practice") - by doing so, you can just about justify anything. That's a ridiculous notion and I'm not even going to go there.
Well it appears it is happening in Macedonia...
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Old 01-26-2010, 08:42 AM   #1805
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Phoenix, are you a citizen of the Republic of Macedonia? Were you eligible to participate in the 2004 referendum? We are discussing matters of Government that represent the citizens of the Republic. Those who do not hold citizenship do not have the actual authority to interfere in Government matters, but can try to influence outcomes.

The Diaspora has it's functions as well, and I believe it should initiate a campaign to register Macedonians for citizenship, this way they can affect the course of the government. As a charitable organization though, organizations such as UMD, AMHRC etc... are not allowed to advocate one party or candidate over the other or they will lose their non-profit status.

Phoenix, there are two ways for the Diaspora to actually influence government policy one is through a lobby group, and only then can you bribe politicians to push Diaspora agenda within the government policy, the other is to become a citizen.
Buktop, what is the role of UMD in the above situation...?
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Old 01-26-2010, 08:55 AM   #1806
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Originally Posted by Buktop View Post
Phoenix, are you a citizen of the Republic of Macedonia? Were you eligible to participate in the 2004 referendum? We are discussing matters of Government that represent the citizens of the Republic. Those who do not hold citizenship do not have the actual authority to interfere in Government matters, but can try to influence outcomes.
Sory to but in on your discusion, You might be interested to know that in the days of the Break away from Yugoslavia, a referendum was held all around the world for All Macedonians, citizens or not, to vote on Independance. Or Would this be a diferant case?

This also brings another argument. I voted for yes, An indapendent Macedonia, Not Indapendant Nth Macedonia, or Vardar Macedonia. etc. So therefor, the whole diaspora around the world should have a say if it comes to Referendum.
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Old 01-26-2010, 11:04 AM   #1807
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Buktop, what is the role of UMD in the above situation...?
UMD's role should be to try and make sure the government understands the positions of the diaspora, Strive and protect the rights of the diaspora, educate, and, I feel, they should encourage citizens in the diaspora to take a bigger role in policing the government.

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Originally Posted by Bill77
Sory to but in on your discusion, You might be interested to know that in the days of the Break away from Yugoslavia, a referendum was held all around the world for All Macedonians, citizens or not, to vote on Independance. Or Would this be a diferant case?

This also brings another argument. I voted for yes, An indapendent Macedonia, Not Indapendant Nth Macedonia, or Vardar Macedonia. etc. So therefor, the whole diaspora around the world should have a say if it comes to Referendum.
Did you receive the 2004 referendum?
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Old 01-26-2010, 05:12 PM   #1808
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UMD's role should be to try and make sure the government understands the positions of the diaspora, Strive and protect the rights of the diaspora, educate, and, I feel, they should encourage citizens in the diaspora to take a bigger role in policing the government.
I agree with you 100% Buktop. How do you genuinely feel the UMD is performing in relation to this matter?
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Old 01-26-2010, 06:18 PM   #1809
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Buktop's explanation of UMD's role is correct. Unfortunately, this is not what UMD were/are doing with their support of 'democratic' prefixes. I am sure he can see this. And as I have said many a time, circumstances that affect the MK Government do not affect the UMD, they let down the Macedonian Diaspora by supporting such a notion, at a time when they should have been adamantly opposed to it, as per the sentiments and wishes of the Macedonian Diaspora.
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Old 01-26-2010, 07:11 PM   #1810
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Buktop's explanation of UMD's role is correct. Unfortunately, this is not what UMD were/are doing with their support of 'democratic' prefixes. I am sure he can see this. And as I have said many a time, circumstances that affect the MK Government do not affect the UMD, they let down the Macedonian Diaspora by supporting such a notion, at a time when they should have been adamantly opposed to it, as per the sentiments and wishes of the Macedonian Diaspora.
UMD do not care about the Macedonian diaspora.

UMD are supporting these Western structures which have backed fully the terms put to us by Greece - UMD have suggested various modified name changes, because Meto and Mitreski at UMD are careerists and opportunists.

As long as there is a dispute, and as long as the Macedonian government thinks its o.k to be negotiating our historical identity - you can be UMD will continue to stand for the same.

When Meto Koloski said "Macedonia has to modify its name" he had one thing in mind - E.U membership.

These pea-brains have sold us out, and will continue to so. The New "catchword" of UMD is "Integration". They want Macedonia "integrated" into the West. If that organization is not a tool for Western foriegn policy for Macedonia - I don't know what is.
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