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View Poll Results: Do you consider the UMD as your representative for the Macedonian Diaspora?
Yes 2 4.35%
No 44 95.65%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-20-2010, 10:59 PM   #1681
Vangelovski
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I think we should make a special thread full of classic (read idiotic) Buktop statements. I'm sure some historian will pick them up one day and use them for a book outlining history's dumbest ideas.
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:00 PM   #1682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
Do any of you think that there is a possibility for the US to change its policy of Macedonian recognition to appease the racist politicians of Greece?
UMD does not believe U.S. policy will change towards Macedonia's name. UMD is organizing a Macedonian-American Day in Congress this Spring, similiar to last year's June 11th Macedonian-American Day in Congress when close to 200 Macedonian-Americans walked door to door and visited hundreds of Congressional offices in one day. Macedonian-Americans are much more organized and more coordinated than ever before. This work is evident by the lack of support anti-Macedonian resolutions in Congress have been getting. See thomas.loc.gov and type in Macedonia to learn more about H. Res. 486 and S. Res. 169. As a result of a UMD action alert, over 40,000 letters have been sent to members of Congress urging them not to support H. Res. 486 and S. Res. 169.

In the 110th Congress, the same House Resolution had 120 (1 withdraw support) members of Congress supporting the Greek position of which 76 signed on in the first 4 months, whereas in the 111th Congress, only 25 have signed on and it's been 9 months.
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Last edited by UMDiaspora.org; 01-20-2010 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:02 PM   #1683
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Meto,

40,000 letters? Do you mean 40,000 individuals sent a letter? Or are you disingeniously calculating the number of individuals who actually signed the letter multiplied by the number of congressmen who recieved a letter?
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The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:06 PM   #1684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
Meto,

40,000 letters? Do you mean 40,000 individuals sent a letter? Or are you disingeniously calculating the number of individuals who actually signed the letter multiplied by the number of congressmen who recieved a letter?
Just for clarity sack and per our response above, over 40,000 letters, which comes out to approximately over 13,300 individuals, Macedonian-Americans and friends of Macedonia. Each individual is represented in Congress by two Senators, and one member of the House of Representatives.
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For comments, questions, concerns, please contact us at:

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1101 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, 6th Floor, Washington, D.C. 20004, United States
Phone: (202) 756-2244, Fax: (202) 756-7323, E-mail: [email protected]

PO Box 2153, Hawthorn, Vic. 3122, Australia
Phone: 0438 385 466, E-mail: [email protected]

3555 St. Clair Avenue East, Toronto, ON, M1K 1L6, Canada
Phone: 416-209-0448, E-mail: [email protected]
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:07 PM   #1685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovius View Post
We are observing the same kind of de-emphasis and re-imaging in real time when we read about the Macedonian struggle through the mediums that are made available to us.
This is so well said.

There has always been a small group of individuals who have MISrepresented the Macedonians in Western Europe, and beyond Europe in places as far as Australia. Who have tried to remould them.

Traditionally this re-imaging or these representations have been contructed by Greeks and Bulgarians in the late 19th century to deceive the big decision makers in the West about the state of things on the ground, but in the last few decades a tiny group of Macedonians (I call them Trajkovski'ists) have emerged with another alien and forieng representation, which they are now trying to impose on us.

It is a Macedonian identity based on citizenship and individuality, rather than ethnicity and culture. (At the moment the two stand side by side but the latter dominates).

All the current Western structures and institutions (supported by UMD) have been geared toward getting the Macedonians to split or break the name of their State from their historical ethnic identity.

If they can turn Macedonia into a Switzerland of the Balkans, then the Greek and Bulgarian thesis (propoganda) will have WON.

The underlying thesis of nearly every Greek and Bulgarian history book over the last century is that there never was a distinctive or essential 'Macedonian' and that Macedonia has ONLY ever been inhabited by Bulgarians, Greeks, Turks, Albanians, Serbs - but never any essential Macedonians.

If there is no Macedonian State or Name that exclusively represents the Macedonian ethinc group - we cease to exist politically as ethnic and historical Macedonians. After that they will carve us up like soft butter.
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:08 PM   #1686
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So 13,300 individuals sent a letter to congress? Which action alert is this? Do you have a link?
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If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:20 PM   #1687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UMDiaspora.org View Post
UMD does not believe U.S. policy will change towards Macedonia's name. UMD is organizing a Macedonian-American Day in Congress this Spring, similiar to last year's June 11th Macedonian-American Day in Congress when close to 200 Macedonian-Americans walked door to door and visited hundreds of Congressional offices in one day. Macedonian-Americans are much more organized and more coordinated than never before. This work is evident by the lack of support anti-Macedonian resolutions in Congress have been getting. See thomas.loc.gov and type in Macedonia to learn more about H. Res. 486 and S. Res. 169. As a result of a UMD action alert, over 40,000 letters have been sent to members of Congress urging them not to support H. Res. 486 and S. Res. 169.

In the 110th Congress, the same House Resolution had 120 (1 withdraw support) members of Congress supporting the Greek position of which 76 signed on in the first 4 months, whereas in the 111th Congress, only 25 have signed on and it's been 9 months.

Hypothetically speaking if the U.S derecognizes us - we still have our own country and we are still Macedonians.

The Macedonian leadership can 'de-recognize' itself, its people who elected them, and every Macedonian past, present and future - at the stroke of pen on our native lands.

It will be critical and it will be fatal, and UMD continue to support Western structures that set these terms, and Western processes that are asking this of the Macedonians ??
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:31 PM   #1688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
UMD Action Alert Letter to Members of Congress
http://capwiz.com/tca/issues/alert/?...566361&type=CO

"With American cooperation and support, Macedonia has emerged as a model of multi-ethnic peace and stability in a region long plagued with strife and well known for its inter-ethnic tensions".

In this paragraph, UMD is promoting Macedonia as a “model multi-ethnic” state and thanking the US for their support and cooperation. What did the US support? How did Macedonia become a “model multi-ethnic” state? Through the Framework Agreement in which the US acted as a guarantor. Promoting Macedonia as a multi-ethnic state is promoting and legitimising the Framework Agreement, as this is the only instrument in Macedonia that provides for a multi-ethnic (and multi-lingual/religious) state. Macedonia’s original constitution certainly did not do that. According to UMD, prior to the Framework Agreement, Macedonia was plagued with strife and ethnic tensions – in other words, it was a bad place.

"Greece alone vetoed Macedonia’s NATO membership at the 2008 NATO Bucharest Summit because the “name dispute” had not been resolved to its satisfaction. The veto came despite Greece’s treaty obligation to Macedonia that it would not use the “name dispute” to impede Macedonia’s accession to NATO and the fact that Macedonia had met all NATO membership criteria. The Greek veto and the subsequent Greek threat to veto Macedonia’s EU integration, have strained Greek-Macedonian relations. Macedonia nevertheless remains determined to take its place within NATO andis committed to resolving the bilateral 'name dispute'”.

Here, UMD show’s it considers the Interim Accord legitimate by reprimanding Greece for not abiding by it. It argues that Greece has a “treaty obligation” to Macedonia. Well, that same “treaty” stipulates a number of obligations for Macedonia, including limiting Macedonian sovereignty in a number of concrete ways, obligating Macedonia not to pursue the human rights of Macedonians in Greece and obligating Macedonia to continue negotiations over the name until a solution is agreed to.

Further down, UMD promotes Macedonia’s “commitment” to resolving the name issue. Why would it do this? What exactly is it implying here? One can only guess that UMD actually supports the negotiations and believes that they are essential to finding a “solution” so that Macedonia can enter NATO. But what is this solution? Well, UMD’s President has mentioned a number of name changes, what he refers to as “political modifiers” that may be “acceptable” to the Macedonian people in the past – these include “Democratic Republic of Macedonia” and “Independent Republic of Macedonia”. In a press release after Macedonia was vetoed in Bucharest, UMD also heavily reprimanded Greece for NOT accepting the then proposed Republic of Macedonia (Skopje).

"In past Congresses, resolutions were proposed that inaccurately portrayed Macedonia as unwilling to resolve the “name dispute” and that erroneously referred to Macedonia as the “The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia” or “FYROM”.

Here UMD rightfully states that Macedonia was erroneously referred to as “FYROM”. However, it is also indignant that suggestions have been made that Macedonia was “unwilling to resolve the name dispute”. Again, UMD is promoting the negotiations that Macedonia has engaged in to resolve the name dispute. As UMD’s President has pointed out, the “solution” could involve any number of “acceptable” name changes.
UMD have pointed out many times that it finds a compromise solution acceptable. Other times it has actually proposed several modified names.

The Macedonians who have pointed this out - have been ridiculed by UMD, have been censored by UMD through Maknews to stop them posting.

UMD have responded to the criticism of some Macedonians by attacking the people who have identified problems with UMD statements, or if that has not worked the UMD have reacted by trying to infiltrate the forums where those criticisms are being made and using forum administrators to block and delete threads.

Meto has actually been quite effective in this regard. All UMD criticism at Maknews has effectively been banned.

The evidence that UMD fully support these Western structures and the terms they have set for us - and furthermore, fully support the decision of the government to engage those structures towards finding "a solution" to a problem that was illegitimate and without merit in the first place, has been made clear.

I don't want them representing me or the Macedonians around me anywhere.
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:35 PM   #1689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TajnataKniga View Post
again more threads about UMD.

If you don't like it moron, don't respond but let others have their say.

Compared to the "UMD Spam" sometimes posted daily and every week without fail by the UMD organization, this is nothing.
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:38 PM   #1690
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That’s ok Meto, I found your latest action alert. No big surprises here, just the usual UMD worldview. Below are excerpts from UMD's recommended text for signatories to forward on to Congressmen.

http://capwiz.com/tca/issues/alert/?...SS=Take+Action

“On May 21, 2009, H. Res. 486 was introduced in the House of Representatives concerning the “name dispute”…unduly blames Macedonia alone for the failure to resolve the dispute…”

UMD seems to be of the opinion that Macedonia is partly to blame for the failure to “resolve” the name dispute. And we should be negotiating why?


“…Next, the statements in H. Res. 486 that supposedly demonstrate Macedonia’s unconstructive attitude are unsubstantiated and ignore anti-Macedonian actions taken by Greece…”

UMD believes Macedonia is and should be “constructive” in these negotiations. Perhaps UMD could put forward its own names that it deems might be acceptable?


“…Greece’s veto occurred despite the 1995 Interim Accord between the two nations forbidding Greece from obstructing Macedonia’s entrance into international organizations under the temporary assignation due to the “name dispute…”

UMD again using the Interim Accord as the basis under which Macedonia should have been accepted into NATO and legitimising it in the process.


“…Similarly when the American people decided their country’s name as United States of America in 1776, the Macedonian people decided their country’s name as Republic of Macedonia in 1991…”

Really!?!?!? I thought the Macedonian people have called their country “Macedonia” for much longer than that? Maybe Tito didn’t invent Macedonians in 1944 as the Greeks claim after all, maybe Gligorov invented them in 1991?

What on earth is going on here?
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If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

Last edited by Vangelovski; 01-20-2010 at 11:41 PM.
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