Serbia, Once Outcast, Is Candidate to Join E.U.

[fyrOM]

Serbia, Turkey and Bosnia vow to help each other on road to EU

http://www.mia.com.mk/default.aspx?vId=83238978&lId=2&pmId=502

Belgrade, 26 April 2011 (MIA) – Leaders of Turkey, Serbia and Bosnia-Herzegovina on Tuesday vowed to intensify cooperation and to help each other in efforts to join the European Union, which is a common goal of all three countries.

At a trilateral meeting in a Serbian hunting resort Karadjordjevo, north of Belgrade, Serbian president Boris Tadic hosted his Turkish colleague Abdulah Gull and three members of Bosnia’s rotating state presidency Nebojsa Radmanovic, Bakir Izetbegovic and Zeljko Komsic.

The countries signed a declaration in Istanbul last year to intensify cooperation, without interfering in each other's affairs. The move was criticized by Serbian opposition for allegedly opening the door to Turkey, which had occupied the Balkans for over five centuries, to play a key role in the region again.

Some Bosnian leaders opposed the site of the meeting. Karadjordjevo is where former Croatian and Serbian presidents Franjo Tudjman and Slobodan Milosevic discussed the partition of Bosnia during 1991-1995 war that followed disintegration of the former Yugoslavia.

But the meeting was held in a constructive and friendly atmosphere, Tadic said. He pointed out that the region had been an area of conflicts in the past, which has to be replaced by mutual trust and cooperation.

"We must jointly fight the prejudices of the past, otherwise we will be confronted by numerous problems in the future," Tadic said. He vowed to oppose referendum on independence threatened by Bosnian Serbs, which was pleasing to ears of Muslim and Croat members of Bosnia's presidency Izetbegovic and Komsic.

"We want the entire region to be integrated into the EU as soon as possible and that is the most important political goal which will bring benefits to all citizens," Tadic said.

"Our goal is to transform this area, once the scene of conflicts, into a region of togetherness which should lead us in the future," Gull said. Serb member of Bosnian presidency, Nebojsa Radmanovic, said "all three countries were EU aspirants and determined to help each other on that road".

"It seems that we have managed to defeat evil ghosts and vampires of the past and there is hope that we can expect new relations in the region", Komsic said.

Izetbegovic said Tadic's position on Bosnia's integrity has shown that "it was worth coming to Karadjordjevo," once favored hunting grounds of former Yugoslav president Josip Broz Tito.

"Disintegrations in the Balkans are over, now is time for integrations," Izetbegovic concluded.

It was agreed that the next meeting should be held in Bosnian capital Sarajevo next year.

Strange bed-fellows, indeed! One needs to think a little bit deeply to understand the Balkans - if that's possible at all?

[Onur]

Turkey will never be a member of EU, both European and Turkish people knows this. But lets live that aside, it`s good to see that we can convince them for at least to meet and talk cuz they are destined to live with each other and apparently, no one except Turkey cares about the peace between Bosnians and Serbs. EU doesn't give a shit about them and they were probably thinking like "gypsies and muslims killing each other" during Serbian-Bosnian conflict in 1990s since they usually regard Balkans as "muslim infested gypsy lands".

Serbs and Bosnians probably regards EU membership as a way to escape from their own conflict but i believe it`s highly dangerous for them. Their population is so low and they don't have any integrity as a country. So, if they enter EU, they will be destined to it and probably wont survive without it since they didn't prove that they can survive on their own yet. I believe this is also same for Croatia too. Croatia is a new country and they don't have much experience as a nation and they will be destined to the survival of EU when they will become a member of it.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Leaving Turkey aside - Serbia and Bosnia in the EU? Unlikely.

[Risto the Great]

Why not? They are untapped and the EU will happily "Tap" at these nations. Some would think that it is all about the EU bestowing mountains of cash on these poor nations. In fact, the EU does nothing for nothing .... they will be slaves to the EU empire soon enough in my opinion.

[Soldier of Macedon]

How do you think that will come about, RtG, and how long before you anticipate that this will happen?

[Risto the Great]

Keep 'em hanging for about 10-20 years I would imagine.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Do you think the EU will still exist by then?

[Onur]

I think EU will accept both in few years. They are weak, small and easy to swallow. Germany and France always needs cheap labor force, otherwise their economy cant survive because their own population cannot sustain necessary development of their economy. Also, getting one million Bosnians would be good for their image cuz they can say that "Hey look, we are not a christian club!". They don't even need to get them for this, it`s enough to accept them as a candidate.

But i agree to SOM, EU will probably not exist after 20 years, maybe even sooner.

[ennea]

My predictions are different:
Croatia and Montenegro may be accepted within the next 5-10 years.
Serbia seems to be in a good condition, economically and politically, but they will never be accepted because of Kosovo.
Bosnia's economical conditions are as bad as Albania's, but their weird political system hasn't worked yet and they don't seem to have a (near) future (just as Kosovo).
There isn't a chance that European Union will be dissolved even in an occasion of a severe crisis (of any kind). Any crisis would be exactly the reason for not breaking in pieces. If Euro is abandoned (which is rather improbable) it will be a severe step back for the federalists’ dreams. Still, even in that case EU will continue to exist, so will probably 2 or 3 common European currencies.

[Onur]

Serbia seems to be in a good condition, economically and politically, but they will never be accepted because of Kosovo.

If they desire to get Serbia, then they accept them. Cyprus became EU member while it`s divided in two and having international border problem since 1974. So, they can get Serbia too regardless of the situation in Kosovo.

There isn't a chance that European Union will be dissolved even in an occasion of a severe crisis (of any kind). Any crisis would be exactly the reason for not breaking in pieces. If Euro is abandoned (which is rather improbable) it will be a severe step back for the federalists’ dreams. Still, even in that case EU will continue to exist, so will probably 2 or 3 common European currencies.

What makes you so sure about that? Nationalists and anti-EU political parties are on the rise in literally every EU country, even in the founder and ideological leader of EU, France. If Le Pen`s party wins the next elections in France, we will see then. I gotta remind you that they are leading in current polls. The majority of ordinary British, German people already doesn't like EU anymore.

Also, if Euro currency would be over, then you can be sure that EU would be over soon after. It`s already their biggest achievement, so if they loose it, then why still go for it?


Their federalist dreams was already over with the major failure of their common constitution project. Also they cant be a true union without a common military force. They have EU force project for it but they wanna use NATO`s forces and bases. Turkey prevents and blocks any NATO-EU negotiation since Greek Cyprus became a member because we don't recognize such a country. When the EU leaders asked from Turkey to permit EU-NATO negotiations for the 100th time, our FM strictly told them that it`s never in a million years. This conversation happened in last week.

Read from Greek Cypriot media;

A number of Turkish papers yesterday reported that Davutoglu and Czech foreign minister Karel Schwarzenberg engaged in a verbal spat at the NATO foreign ministers’ summit over comments on Cyprus. So much so that the EU’s High Representative for Foreign Affairs Catherine Ashton was quoted as saying she had never seen Davutoglu so “upset” before.

Davutoglu reportedly lost his cool when Schwarzenberg effectively told him to mind his own business, after the Turkish minister suggested the EU made a mistake accepting Cyprus.

According to Hurriyet, NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen referred to the “negative impact” of Turkey’s veto on EU-NATO meetings. He proposed a compromise deal where Turkey joins the European Defence Agency and in exchange accepts Cyprus’ participation in joint EU-NATO meetings.

Davutoglu replied that Turkey’s membership to the Defence Agency was an EU commitment to Turkey already.

“Do not expect from us to make steps that will legitimise the Greek Cypriot administration in return for this,” he said, adding it was a mistake to let Cyprus join the EU before a solution.

Schwarzenberg, confirming his country’s support to Turkey’s EU bid, said: “It is not correct for a non-EU country to say to us ‘You have made a mistake’. You cannot interfere in our internal affairs.”

Davutoglu retorted that the only reason Cyprus got into the EU was because Greece had “blackmailed” the EU, threatening to veto accession for the central and eastern European countries if the island was not accepted.

“The Greek Cypriot administration will not sit at this table,” said Davutoglu. While the Cyprus Republic freezes Turkey’s negotiation chapters, “...is it possible to let them sit here in front of me on equal terms? Do not even let this to pass your mind.”

Realising that he had somewhat perturbed the Turkish official, Schwarzenberg apologised, saying he had been misunderstood.

Still livid, Davutoglu maintained that he hadn’t misunderstood at all. British Foreign Minister William Hague concurred: “What Mr Davutoglu understood is unfortunately, correct.”

Ashton added: “It is the first time I have seen you so upset.”

For those still in doubt, Davutoglu clarified: “Do not open this issue again. I will always tell you the same. Either you stress the need for the Cyprus problem to be solved, or do not bring any more this issue on the agenda.”

Still optimistic, Rasmussen suggested an informal meeting with Cypriot participation, to which the Turkish minister replied: “I told you, the Greek Cypriot administration cannot sit in front of me in an official level.”

He added that Cyprus would not become a NATO member until a solution is found.

Published on April 19, 2011

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/turkey/turkish-minister-s-meltdown/20110419

Even if they create their force without using NATO`s resources (kinda impossible with their economic crisis), their EU military cant be a proper force without having a close contact with middle-east or Caucasus, the areas of common interest, energy and various other benefits. Thats "kinda" difficult without Turkey permission too.

[fyrOM]

Good post Onur on both the information and how a country can have "rights" in one area and yet these "rights" restricted in another area, just like real life and not some ideological/Biblical babble.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Are you trying to provoke another argument by opening up the same can? You can't seem to help yourself, can you? If a showdown is what you're after, go back to those threads where Vangelovski was schooling you and get what you deserve, for the last time.

[Onur]

It looks like the eurocrats will give the candidate status to Serbia tomorrow, just to increase pressure upon them by saying that "see, we can get you in EU if you recognize Kosovo and do what we say". This is just an another proof that EU project is solely based on political ideas of eurocrats without reflecting the reality at all, otherwise they wouldn't invite a country with border issues and while severe clashes occurring between Albanians and Serbs, NATO soldiers opening fire on people at sight. The situation is quite similar in Cyprus too and they even became a member. There are UN soldiers in there, ethnic rivalry is always tense and Greek government have zero authority in half of the island since 1974 but EU accepted them.

This article is from pro-EU website, Brussels;

Brussels to open EU door to Serbia, Turkey left in the cold
Balkans candidates for EU membership, Serbia and Montenegro, look set to get a foot in the door of the bloc Wednesday while Turkey is left out in the cold again, according to European diplomats.

But Serbia is likely to be asked to make a fresh effort to soothe tensions with neighbouring Kosovo when the European Commission hands out its yearly report on the progress made by candidates bidding for entry into the club.

The recommendations, which need the unanimous approval of the 27 EU states, will be made public Wednesday by the EU's enlargement commissioner Stefan Fuele in reports to the European Parliament and to the press.

European diplomats speaking on condition of anonymity said the Commission would recommend opening accession talks with Montenegro in return for progress in fighting corruption and organised crime, as well as passing legislation bringing it closer to EU standards.

Serbia, which is a step behind Macedonia in the complex process, is likely to be recommended as a candidate -- but on the understanding it returns to EU-sponsored talks with Kosovo aimed at ending everyday headaches for ordinary people due to Belgrade's refusal to recognise Pristina's three-year-old breakaway.

Talks between the two that began in March were interrupted last month after violence on the border in northern Kosovo, home to a majority of Belgrade loyalist Serbs.

Serbia's chances of pushing open the EU door rose this year when Belgrade handed over wanted war fugitives, Bosnian Serb general Ratko Mladic and Croatian Serb leader Goran Hadzic, to the UN war crimes court .

Hopes of winning EU membership rose through the Western Balkans after Croatia in June wound up accession talks that will see it become the 28th EU state in 2013.

But Turkey, which like Croatia put its hand up for membership in 2005, appears stuck in a stalemate, partly due to its involvement in the dispute over Cyprus, but also because of continuing opposition from some nations, notably France.

11 October 2011

http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/enlarge-serbia.cu1

I bet Eurocrats are planning to get Croatia in 2012, so they can dictate their demands to Serbs by abusing Croat politicians and manipulating Croat veto power by hiding behind them. This is what France, Greece and eurocrats does today by using Greek Cyprus`s veto power against Turkey.

I can guess that if Serbia ever becomes an EU member, then Serbia would be a deserted place where only some Albanians and Gypsies lives because i don't think any Serb wants to live in Serbia then. Serbia is already suffering with major population decline today. For Brussels, this is just a simple and quick fix for the problematic Serbia in the heart of Europe and an end of another nation state, this is what EU for anyway.

[ProMKD]

One by one, all nations will decline and disappear, or become so politically uninfluential that it won't matter. At that point, all we will have left for societies (worldwide) will be the people of today. These are people that live ONLY for today, don't care about the future, and have babies at 16 and feed them beer at 2, or feed them "vegan" diets and murder them. This is our future. Very grim.

[Onur]

The title of this thread is "Turkey - is on the road of EU". So, here is one more development about EU in Turkey;
The courses related with European Union in Turkish universities are getting closed one by one due to lack of interest by the university students. In my own university, master program of EU didn't get any students for two consecutive terms because not even a single person applied, out of 100.000s of qualified students in Turkey.

Trust issues add to Turkey’s EU apathy
Fluent in French and English, mustachioed and with an avuncular air, Cengiz Aktar seems just the sort of teacher to enthuse his students about Turkey’s decades-long quest to join the European Union.

There is just one problem. Mr Aktar has had to cancel his master’s course on the EU at Istanbul’s Bahcesehir University because of lack of interest.

It is a decision that reflects the woeful state of Ankara’s membership bid, now encountering more problems than ever at a vital time for both Turkey and the EU.

So while the European Commission’s annual report on Turkey’s progress towards membership, due out on Wednesday, is expected to chide Ankara about freedom of expression, European diplomats freely confess their leverage has almost disappeared.

The EU itself is now much more half-hearted about Turkey’s bid – France and Germany’s leaders are opposed to it becoming a member – part of the reason why Mr Aktar describes the Brussels-Ankara relationship as a “coalition of the unwilling”.

It is a coalition because, 48 years after Walter Hallstein, then president of the European Commission, declared Turkey would one day join the bloc, neither side wishes to bring the process to a definitive end.

But negotiations are effectively stalled and misgivings on both sides are almost palpable. Indeed, last week Turkey was embroiled in a minor spat with Germany concerning vague and unsubstantiated allegations by Mr Erdogan, furiously denied by Berlin, that an unnamed German foundation was indirectly funding Kurdish terrorism.

Ankara has also clashed with Nicolas Sarkozy, France’s president, who suggested making it illegal to deny that there was an Armenian genocide during the last years of the Ottoman Empire.

Longer-term problems lurk beneath such diplomatic contretemps, among them Mr Sarkozy’s steadfast opposition to Turkish membership and Ankara’s resistance to applying the more than 100,000 pages of EU law.

“All the technical steps have virtually stopped,” says Mr Aktar, arguing that there may be little point in rewriting Turkey’s statutes if the country’s rejection is preordained. He worries that Turkey’s current customs union with the EU – meant to be a halfway house towards full membership – may itself be hard to maintain.

Turkish executives bemoan cumbersome EU visa rules, which often make a visit to the consulate necessary for a simple business trip. Ankara is also upset that the customs union means it automatically has to open up commerce to third countries that have signed trade deals with the bloc, without securing any trade concessions of its own.

Meanwhile European diplomats point to Turkey’s decision to deprive several regulatory agencies of autonomy as a sign Ankara is going its own way.

The most important factor, however, is probably the dispute over the divided island of Cyprus.

Turkey has no diplomatic relations with the internationally recognised Greek Cypriot government in the south and it has threatened to suspend relations with the EU when Cyprus takes the bloc’s revolving presidency in the second half of next year.

Turkish officials concede that if the island remains split between Greek and Turkish Cypriots – as they expect it to be – prospects of joining the EU are negligible.

Asked if Turkey’s membership bid is now on death row, one Turkish diplomat quietly replies: “Sure.”

October 10, 2011

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/fe570...#axzz1aehKqxxM

Especially for the last two years, about %65-70 of Turkish people are against the EU in their own polls but i am quite sure that if EU institutions organizes a poll only among university students and other higher educated people, the result would be NO to EU with at least 90% majority.

One by one, all nations will decline and disappear, or become so politically uninfluential that it won't matter. At that point, all we will have left for societies (worldwide) will be the people of today. This is our future. Very grim.

No ProMKD. They will fail and people will prevail. We will see that in our lifetime.