South Australian Premier Mike Rann, an enemy to Macedonians

[Prolet]

Kevin Rudd today publicly backed Mike Rann, calling him his friend for 20 years. He said that Mike Rann has a tough fight on his hands if he were to win the next election.

Perhaps our community can make things a bit more difficult for him?? We have him on the ropes, lets go for the final knockout blow.

[Phoenix]

Agreed.

That's why alone, Macedonian's in Adelaide will struggle to have any control within poilitcs.

We need to align ourselves with other minorities in SA and lobby as one voice, to stop this carry on within local government.

Is there a Turkish community in SA...?

I've heard that Rann has some plaque or something that claims that the island of Cyprus is totally greek or something to that affect...???

[Stojacanec]

Putting aside legalities / structure etc... There are 3 distinct Macedonian communities in SA.

Tell me if I'm wrong but I think there are two distinct communities in SA with three structures.

There is the main Maco community in Findon with its church.
Then there is a breakaway church plus the "political" party which are not mutually exclusive groups. That is, the people from the political group goes to the other church and visa versa.

Therefore I can't see them as to separate groups just two different structures.

[Stojacanec]

I also note one of the signatories to the advertisement was a VMRO DPMNE Macedonian Association. I still cannot fathom why on Earth anyone would form an association dedicated to a political party in another country. Sorry for the deviation from the discussion, but seriously ... what the? ... Perhaps I will move to Macedonia and form the Australian Liberal Party of Migrants.

When the group was inaugurated I was left samo da ca cudam WTF is this all about?

I have struggled with this concept ever since.

[Risto the Great]

When the group was inaugurated I was left samo da ca cudam WTF is this all about?

I have struggled with this concept ever since.

Agreed.
And I would agree with you that I think the "political" party would not necessarily be mutually exclusive from the pro Vladika community. I seem to remember one person in particular who just got off the boat from Macedonia and could not understand why he could not be the leader of our local community. Soon thereafter he became the leader of the VMRO thingo in Adelaide.

[Rogi]

In the late 80's it was formed for 2 reasons.

Firstly to lobby the Macedonian people to seek independence from Yugoslavia. At the time, it was the only group with such ideals (with the absolute majority of Macedonians originating from and/or living in what is now the Republic of Macedonia, being so content to be part of Yugoslavia) and because it essentially could not function in Yugoslavia, it needed Macedonians around the world to support it, to seek Independence.

The second reason, tying in to the first, was to eliminate the 'Yugoslav' mentality.

During independence and immediately after, it's focus was the establishment of the Republic of Macedonia. In Macedonia, it was a group that was outside of the establishment and it is like breaking through a brick wall to get through those old communist networks and bring change to Macedonia, so it again needed the outside support or wings, to operate.

After that happened it essentially died down in the Diaspora and particularly Australia with a mission accomplished (Indepedent Macedonia, largely eliminated Yugoslav mentality). It then voted itself out of existence.

It was originally formed by Macedonians outside of Macedonia along with Macedonians living in Macedonia, it's support and finances came from outside, or it would never have managed to exist and sustain itself in seeking independence for Macedonia.

Back then it was more about ideology and revolution (Independence) and Now, it is a political party and the focus may be in campaigning for elections for Diaspora voters.

[Risto the Great]

Surely their time is up now Rogi?
I would hate to think VMRO DMNE had a bunch of yes men voted in from the Diaspora.

[makedonche]

Putting aside legalities / structure etc... There are 3 distinct Macedonian communities in SA.

No! There is one distinct Macedonian Community in SA, anything else or anbody else is a splinter of this Community, call it what you like but don't even try to hint at casting legalities aside, legality is what gives it creedence.

[Rogi]

As mentioned, those originally involved decided to vote the organisation out of existence as its' purpose and mission had been achieved.

When Gruevski came to the picture, along with Martin Protogjer, they decided to completely change VMRO-DPMNE and decided to form the foreign committee's again, except this time with different people and different objectives, this time as a political party rather than an ideology.

[Risto the Great]

this time as a political party rather than an ideology.

They are a political party in Australia on behalf of Macedonia? Have you seen their constitution? Personally, I would hope Diaspora votes are based on reflecting the will of the Diaspora. Which is the purpose of Diaspora votes.

I would say their time is definitely up.

[MP_MK]

In the late 80's it was formed for 2 reasons.

Firstly to lobby the Macedonian people to seek independence from Yugoslavia. At the time, it was the only group with such ideals (with the absolute majority of Macedonians originating from and/or living in what is now the Republic of Macedonia, being so content to be part of Yugoslavia) and because it essentially could not function in Yugoslavia, it needed Macedonians around the world to support it, to seek Independence.

The second reason, tying in to the first, was to eliminate the 'Yugoslav' mentality.

During independence and immediately after, it's focus was the establishment of the Republic of Macedonia. In Macedonia, it was a group that was outside of the establishment and it is like breaking through a brick wall to get through those old communist networks and bring change to Macedonia, so it again needed the outside support or wings, to operate.

After that happened it essentially died down in the Diaspora and particularly Australia with a mission accomplished (Indepedent Macedonia, largely eliminated Yugoslav mentality). It then voted itself out of existence.

It was originally formed by Macedonians outside of Macedonia along with Macedonians living in Macedonia, it's support and finances came from outside, or it would never have managed to exist and sustain itself in seeking independence for Macedonia.

Back then it was more about ideology and revolution (Independence) and Now, it is a political party and the focus may be in campaigning for elections for Diaspora voters.

This is my understanding.

And why on earth would their time have to be up? A group can change focus according to the changed landscape. It's an ongoing process....

[MP_MK]

No! There is one distinct Macedonian Community in SA, anything else or anbody else is a splinter of this Community, call it what you like but don't even try to hint at casting legalities aside, legality is what gives it creedence.

Are you seriously listening to yourself?

A splinter of the Findon community would be individuals that share the same history as the majority of that community. i.e: are 2nd, 3rd and 4th generational Macedonians which mostly stem from areas outside of ROM. If these people decided to leave for whatever reason, they would be classified as a "splinter goup".

The Woodville community was formed bacause the leadership at Findon gave our priest an ultimatum: Stay loyal to the MOC and leave the Findon church or abandon the MOC and stay.

Members of your community and individuals here on this forum, now say that it was our priest that caused the split, but we all know that this is not the case ...an ultimatum was not a decision on his part. SO the members that formed the new community remained loyal to the MOC: MACEDONIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH. They are all 1st generational Macedonians to Australia and hence share the same mentality and heritage, therefore unitied and formed the new community and church when faced with the ultimatum.

I wouldn't call this a splinter group. I would call it a short stay at the Findon church, realizing we don't sahre the same loyalty and outlook and moving on.

So in your view- This Easter, I should print out two or three hundred flyers, stating that we are no longer a Maceodnian community in Adelaide and hand these flyers out to all the members of our community and then follow this through with a mail out to the members that don't attend church, just to make sure everyone is aware that we don't belong to a community because Macedonche says so?


Poor form.

[Bratot]

Personally, I would hope Diaspora votes are based on reflecting the will of the Diaspora. Which is the purpose of Diaspora votes.

I would say their time is definitely up.

I would be really concerned about having a political party establishment in such over sea country as Australia.
If they manage to control your votes than you would not carry the consequences in any way but mostly the ppl in the Republik.

We may surely say it's better to be DPMNE instead of SDSM in the situation when we are dealing the absurdity of Greek policy, but don't let it be the (name) only factor to value your choice, of course is crucial but also the standard of living for those Macedonians in the Republik.

I know you can be very good and healthy criticizers of their work since you live in a country more developed and you can do the comparation on that basis, using your experience and knowledge.

[Rogi]

It was ideology once before, their job was done, so they stepped back.

Now, it's just politics and it's a new group.

The Diaspora will be voting in the next election in Macedonia, so you can expect the political parties in Macedonia to be campaigning to the Diaspora too.

VMRO-DPMNE may have branches now, but SDSM are in the process and planning of establishing their own too. They actually have a surprising amount of support here in Australia too.

That's just politics, you can't blame the political party for seeking votes.

But being from the Diaspora and living outside of Macedonia, we don't depend on a Macedonian political party for our business or our jobs, so we're not going to vote on that basis and I think we'll be able to keep them honest more so than anyone else could.

Who knows, we may have (and I expect this to be the case) quite a few independent candidates from Australia too.

[makedonche]

Are you seriously listening to yourself?

A splinter of the Findon community would be individuals that share the same history as the majority of that community. i.e: are 2nd, 3rd and 4th generational Macedonians which mostly stem from areas outside of ROM. If these people decided to leave for whatever reason, they would be classified as a "splinter goup".

The Woodville community was formed bacause the leadership at Findon gave our priest an ultimatum: Stay loyal to the MOC and leave the Findon church or abandon the MOC and stay.

Members of your community and individuals here on this forum, now say that it was our priest that caused the split, but we all know that this is not the case ...an ultimatum was not a decision on his part. SO the members that formed the new community remained loyal to the MOC: MACEDONIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH. They are all 1st generational Macedonians to Australia and hence share the same mentality and heritage, therefore unitied and formed the new community and church.

I wouldn't call this a splinter group. I would call it a short stay at the Findon church, realizing we don't sahre the same loyalty and outlook and moving on.

So in your view- This Easter, I should print out two or three hundred flyers, stating that we are no longer a Maceodnian community in Adelaide and hand these flyers out to all the members of our community and then follow this through with a mail out to the members that don't attend church, just to make sure everyone is aware that we don't belong to a community because Macedonche says so?


Poor form.

You don't get it do you shit for brains!
Every time there is a split, a breakaway, a new group, a differing of opinion that warrants another group, a splinter group - call it whatever you like - The Macedonian Cause, the people, the ideaology and the unity - which you keep on calling for, is diluted, weakened and less effective! Are you seeing this or do I need to draw it in crayon for you!!
As for 1st, 2nd, 3rd generation Macedonians WTF? - we are all Macedonians don't you get it numb nuts?
Where is this other community registered? Where can I get a copy of it's constitution?
According to you the community should just hand over the assets to the Vladika and everything will be ok, we can all go to the same church and hold hands together like good Macedonians! You are so naieve and ill-informed it is laughable- do you even understand the reasons for not handing over the assets? If you do, explain them to me either here or by PM.
Handing out flyers at church hey! Good idea moron - you can explain on your flyers just how Macedonian you are and how much better you must be beacause you follow the MOC, and by all means send out emails to all of your friends who think like you, that way you can create a bigger division amongst the South Australian Macedonians!
You don't belong to the community by choice, nobody asked you to leave and nobody has stopped you from coming back, the choice you made leads you to where you are today, so don't bitch about me telling you you don't belong or the fact that you don't belong to a community because of my sayso - you don't belong by choice!! imbecile!!
You are the big hero who won't be held accountable to anyone, who won't hold positions of responsibility on any community boards/executives and the goes around lambasting others who have done their time, put their money where their mouth is, sustained and improved the community for all Macedonians - not just the ones in their community! If you had even the remost clue about the Macedonian Community of Adelaide & SA Inc. you would know what the constitution says about supporting all Macedonians no matter where they are and catering for the needs of newly arrived Macedonians from the ROM and any other parts of the world - yes you read right - it is in the consitiution - do you have one of those or do you just make it up as you go? ... it must be your evolving changing one Iv'e heard about!
As for poor form - fortuneately I don't take notice of ill concieved, narrow minded remarks from a big hero like you!