Up to 16 killed as Israeli forces storm aid convoy

[Phoenix]

Greece has withdrawn from joint military exercises with Israel in protest at the raid on the flotilla. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/10195838.stm)

WOW...also a strange movement on behalf of Greece.

...The Israeli's will be shattered...lol

[johnMKD]

...The Israeli's will be shattered...lol

Actually I just heard on the Italian news that the ships were under Greek flag. That's why Greece protests in this way

[Bill77]

This will not be a popular post for what i am about to say, But i just seen some video footage of the first moments the Israelies boarded the ship and what it clearly shows, the Israeli soldiers were set upon with what looks like steel bars and they were coping it something silly. 7 soldiers injured and 2 seriously. There were six ships all up. 5 of the ships ended peacefuly no injuries except this one ship.

[Big Bad Sven]

They could but it takes a political will that is disturbingly lacking from all of our politicians...Nobody will declare WWIII on the Macedonians if they decided to clean up matters in their own backyard...sadly we are a pathetic people incapable of helping ourselves...

Unfortunately you are spot on Phoenix....

[777Bitola]

This will not be a popular post for what i am about to say, But i just seen some video footage of the first moments the Israelies boarded the ship and what it clearly shows, the Israeli soldiers were set upon with what looks like steel bars and they were coping it something silly. 7 soldiers injured and 2 seriously. There were six ships all up. 5 of the ships ended peacefuly no injuries except this one ship.

Yeah they were attacked so they had to retaliate. However they never should of been their in the first place.




Also, three Macedonians have been part of the aid ships.

Three Macedonian citizens participated in the convoy of aid ships, which was attacked Monday morning by Israeli forces, diplomatic sources relayed information to local press.

The information is based on a passangers list, released by Turkish authorities. There is no information on their situation or whereabouts.

The six-ship flotilla, carrying 10,000 tonnes of aid had been due to arrive in Gaza. About 700 people from over 30 countries were on board.

[Bill77]

Yeah they were attacked so they had to retaliate. However they never should of been their in the first place.

I have to be careful here, But what would we say if Macedonian soldiers entered Tetovo and they were bashed with steel bars and were out numbered. Calling them to stop will not work, so what would be the next option.

Yes they never should have been there in the first place, but we all know were these ships were destined and these people on board knew there is an embargo wrongfuly or rightfuly so. Therefor, these on board should have understood it could be dangerous and eventualy they would have been raided.

[johnMKD]

I have to be careful here, But what would we say if Macedonian soldiers entered Tetovo and they were bashed with steel bars and were out numbered. Calling them to stop will not work, so what would be the next option.

Yes they never should have been there in the first place, but we all know were these ships were destined and these people on board knew there is an embargo wrongfuly or rightfuly so. Therefor, these on board should have understood it could be dangerous and eventualy they would have been raided.

Yeah, but it's another thing to be raided and another to be killed....

[Bill77]

Yeah, but it's another thing to be raided and another to be killed....

John i am not happy people died. But like i said, 7 soldiers injured 2 serious which would have happened in the begining of the landing. No dought you will see the footage and how violently they were attacked. The whole incident sucks, but if i was one of the soldiers on board and getting smashed over the head with a steal bar i would not hesitate to shoot rather then die.

When news broke first, it sounded like the Israelies raided the ship with only intention to kill by spraying bullets. But i don't think that was the case because as reports say, 5 other ships were also raided and ended peacefuly, infact 3 of those ships already entered port under escort.

[johnMKD]

John i am not happy people died. But like i said, 7 soldiers injured 2 serious which would have happened in the begining of the landing. No dought you will see the footage and how violently they were attacked. The whole incident sucks, but if i was one of the soldiers on board and getting smashed over the head with a steal bar i would not hesitate to shoot rather then die.

When news broke first, it sounded like the Israelies raided the ship with only intention to kill by spraying bullets. But i don't think that was the case because as reports say, 5 other ships were also raided and ended peacefuly, infact 3 of those ships already entered port under escort.

Well, if this is how it happened, then you're right, Bill. The death cannot be justified in any case, but at least we can give the Israelis the benefit of self-defense.

[Prolet]

I have to be careful here, But what would we say if Macedonian soldiers entered Tetovo and they were bashed with steel bars and were out numbered. Calling them to stop will not work, so what would be the next option.

Bill, Its not the same thing, they were raided on international waters which means they had no jurisdiction whats so ever to be inside the ship.

[Onur]

they were raided on international waters which means they had no jurisdiction whats so ever to be inside the ship.

I agree to that. Israel had no right to setup an operation to a ship in international waters at first place.

Nevertheless, it was a stupid thing to attack Israeli soldiers with sticks when they raided into the ships. What was their expectation? Soldiers would give up their guns and surrender to the activists with wooden sticks? They would have raise their hands and surrender immediately.


P. S: Btw, two of these ships are just rented from commercial company in Turkey and it wasn't an official aid movement from Turkish government. Like 777Bitola said, there was about 700 people from 30 different countries. There was Turkish citizens in it too but we don't know the identities of the injured and dead people. We even don't know the identities of all the Turkish citizens who were in that ship but its obvious that these people are anti-Israil extremists.

[Onur]

For the very first time, PKK terrorists dared to attack our naval base in the city of Adana with RPG-7 rockets, just 3 hours before the Israeli operation. 7 of our soldiers are dead, 9 injured. This naval base is side by side to the seaport where these Gaza aid ships set sail one day ago.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=naval-base-attack-heats-turkey8217s-agenda-further-2010-05-31

Something strange going on but we don't know the details yet. I think some people with secret agendas trying to aggravate our relationship with Israel to go worse.

[Prolet]

Turkey should outlaw the Islamic extremism right away, the last thing your country needs is to be compared to Palestine. Bringing Turkey into this Arabic mess is no good thats for sure, they should deal with Israel for themselves there are 300 million Arabs around Israel surly then can do something about it.

[Onur]

Turkey should outlaw the Islamic extremism right away, the last thing your country needs is to be compared to Palestine. Bringing Turkey into this Arabic mess is no good thats for sure, they should deal with Israel for themselves there are 300 million Arabs around Israel surly then can do something about it.

It`s already outlawed but you know how difficult to deal with them. They are everywhere in the world.

No matter if it was private commercial ship, our stupid ruling party should have prevented them to set sail from Turkey coast. Some of the ships set sailed from Greek Cyprus and Greece too but i don't care, Turkey shouldn't involve in this mess in any circumstances.


I agree with you Prolet, some unknown forces trying to pull Turkey into this Israel-Palestine conflict. They are trying to make our relation with Israel to go worse. Maybe because these 300 million Arabs are useless to them since all of them are under control of USA. Arabs are slaves of USA and they cant do shit without USA`s approval.

[Bratot]

Israeli forces gaved several warnings which were ignored by the "aid convoy".

YouTube - IDF - Navy Warns Flotilla (31 May 2010)

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/HumanitarianAid/Palestinians/Legal_aspects_Gaza_aid_26-May-2010.htm?e40be510

Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs legal expert, Sarah Weiss Maudi on the legal aspects of humanitarian aid to Gaza.


Transcript:

Interviewer: Today we are with Sarah Weiss Maudi, the Israel Foreign Ministry's expert on maritime and humanitarian law. Sarah, can you explain to us please why Israel may stop ships from entering Gaza?

Ms. Weiss Maudi: Sure. The reason why ships cannot enter Gaza currently is because a maritime blockade is in effect off the coast of Gaza. When a maritime blockade is in effect no ships can enter the blockaded area. This includes both enemy vessels and civilian vessels. The reason why there is a naval blockade in effect off the coast of Gaza is because Israel is currently in a state of armed conflict with the Hamas regime that controls Gaza. The Hamas regime has bombarded Israeli communities in Israel, Israeli civilians in Israel, with weapons that are smuggled to Gaza by various routes, and one of these routes is the sea. Under international law a maritime blockade is a recognized and legitimate tool that can be used during an armed conflict. Various naval handbooks of western states, including the naval handbook of the United States and of the UK, recognize the blockade as a legitimate tool during maritime armed conflict.

Interviewer: So this is a regular maritime procedure?

Ms. Weiss Maudi: This is a regular, recognized maritime procedure. Under international law there are various criteria that need to be in place in order for the blockade to be valid. One of these, for example, is the grant of due notice. Israel has granted due notice and has publicized via the international professional maritime channels the exact coordinates of the maritime blockade.

Interviewer: So this blockade shouldn't surprise anyone.

Ms. Weiss Maudi: Exactly. Due notice has already been granted.

Interviewer: Okay. Now what about Israel controlling overland supplies in and out of Gaza?

Ms. Weiss Maudi: I think to answer that question we have to look back at the recent history in the Gaza Strip.

In 2005, Israel implemented what is called its disengagement plan and under this disengagement plan Israel withdrew completely from the Gaza Strip – meaning that there is no longer any Israeli military or civilian presence in the Gaza Strip. This ended Israel's effective control of the area after about 40 years of effective control.

Interviewer: Does this mean that Israel no longer occupies Gaza?

Ms. Weiss Maudi: Correct. Gaza is no longer under Israel's effective control. What exists today is a state of armed conflict, as I said. Basically, what happened was that Israel had hoped that the disengagement plan would serve as a springboard towards more positive relations with its neighbors in Gaza. Unfortunately, the opposite happened and the Hamas regime, a terrorist regime, seized control of Gaza and stepped up its attacks on civilian targets in Israel proper, in communities and towns adjacent to the Gaza Strip.

So Israel, in response to these attacks on its civilians, undertook a number of measures. And one of these measures was the imposition of economic sanctions against the Hamas regime in Gaza.

Interviewer: Is this a common practice, economic sanctions?

Ms. Weiss Maudi: The imposition of economic sanctions on a terrorist or other regime is a very common practice that has been used many times in modern history. Some examples are the US implementation of economic sanctions on Syria or on Libya. Basically this is a tool to exert economic pressure on a problematic regime. This is not an act of collective punishment. Rather, again, this is a legitimate tool that is used under international law to exert pressure on a regime such as the Hamas regime, which is a terrorist regime.

Interviewer: So how does Israel make sure that while it is pressuring the regime, the citizens don’t get hurt?

Ms. Weiss Maudi: There are certain obligations under international humanitarian law that apply to armed conflict. Basically, Israel must ensure that vital humanitarian goods are supplied to the citizens of the Gaza Strip. Israel supplies vital humanitarian goods on a daily basis – these include baby formula, meat, dairy products etc. and in the last year and a half for example, over a million tons of goods have been transferred to the Gaza Strip.

Interviewer: So everything is transferred?

Ms. Weiss Maudi: No, not everything is transferred. Under international law, a state that is imposing economic sanctions does not need to transfer non-vital goods. This means that goods that would give Hamas a military or economic advantage are not transferred. This is why, for example, Israel limits the transfer of concrete to Hamas. Concrete could be used to cast rockets or it can be used to build reinforced bunkers, and certainly those things would give Hamas a military advantage.

Interviewer: So how are we sure that Israel is implementing these economic sanctions in a way that doesn't hurt the civilians?

Mr. Weiss Maudi: The Israel Supreme Court constantly reviews the transfer of humanitarian goods to Gaza and makes sure that Israel is meeting its obligations under international law. There have been several Supreme Court cases where they have checked and made sure that Israel meets its obligations both under Israeli domestic law and under international law.

Interviewer: Okay. Thank you very much.

Ms. Weiss Maudi: You're welcome. Bye.