United Macedonia Diaspora

[Pelister]

Stop playing stupid...
nobody expects 100% convergence of ideas between an organization and its membership...BUT what normal people deserve is that an organization represents the majority of their members views...

Perhaps UMD's membership is all for prefixes, suffixes, questionable alliances, a lack of transparency, kissing American butt, impotent press releases and delusions of grandeur...

That is precisely what they are for.

I am certain now that if we hadn't of made so much 'noise' about Meto's name changes, about UMD's defence of the 'negotiation' process, its 'silence' on the Framwork...etc, they would have thought everything was normal, and carried on as usual.

UMD was never created to be representative of the Macedonian wishes, grievances, cares...etc., it was designed to be politically influentail, which once again highlighted the hypocracy of the "we are a not for profit and not politically aligned" statements we used to hear from them. UMD were always going to be the voice of Westernised Macedonians, and by that what I mean is a tiny group of Macedonians who were always prepared to compromise our name and our identity for Western 'recognition'.

These fkers at UMD would be quite happy to give all the support that Greece could wish for within the framework of the negotiations, as long as those 'negotiations' were our 'ticket' into the Western fold. Its been one compromise with UMD after another - I think the statemeent 'political whores' requires some qualification here. It should read 'political whores of the West' and that means Western systems of domination, and ruthless suppression toward the extermination of the Macedonians.

Vrhovists - Bulgarianised Macedonians
Pan-Macedonian - Hellenised Macedonians
UMD - Westernised Macedonians

All sell outs in their own fashion.

[Risto the Great]

UMD - Westernised Macedonians

Ouch, that is a dangerous term on a predominantly English speaking forum. I would have to say I am very likely a "westernised Macedonian" and would not like to be tarred with the same brush as UMD.

[Pelister]

Ouch, that is a dangerous term on a predominantly English speaking forum. I would have to say I am very likely a "westernised Macedonian" and would not like to be tarred with the same brush as UMD.

I was referring to Macedonian support for foriegn systems of domination against the Macedonians whether it be Bulgarian, Greek or Western.

Our negation is in large part a Western movement, which continues to breath life into the idea we are not 'real' Macedonians or that we have to change our name - this idea is only seriously entertained in Western institutions and Western Clubs, for example, the E.U, NATO ...etc.

So I use 'Westernised' in the sense that they defend and support various Western systems of colonial domination that have targeted the Macedonians specifically, for political extermination; and at the same time fail to defend us against such a Western position.

Which was why I put it alongside 'Vrhovists' and 'Pan-Macedonians' - too point out the similarities with two other cases of Macedonians preferring to go with ideology and practice of our other enemies.

[Buktop]

I am curious to know what triggered this change? Have they said or done something in the last few weeks that they haven't in the last 20 years?

The post was made in July, and was not in response to any UMD press releases, I changed my view on the EU right when they approved that 20 Billion euro loan for Greece in April, and then solidified my view when they gave the go-ahead for another 110 or so billion that was announced in May. I have some serious issues with the way the EMU handled this problem with Greece. That is why I changed my mind.

[Buktop]

UMD released a press release at about that time. I think Buktop jumped the gun as to the meaning of that PR exercise...

You really do have a problem Vangelovski, not everyone is as infatuated with the UMD as you are. Get a life man

[Buktop]

That's exactly the problem, it wasn't just a 'lapse' in judgement, it was one in a series of poor decisions by a spineless organisation that knows nothing but blind support for government policies. If it was a 'lapse' in judgement, Koloski wouldn't have defended his position, again, while in Australia.

You have persistently supported them through nearly every stupid action they have made, in the hope that they would come good. They haven't. I don't think it's even a matter of "I told you so", because you two, in addition to the other 4 or 5 people on the internet that support those clowns, have been told a thousand times. Face it, you have an inability to admit when you're wrong 99% of the time when the matter concerns this topic. Meto is 100%, as was seen when Mitreski practically apologised on Meto's behalf and then only a few posts later Meto was playing dumb and denying everything again. I wonder if Mitreski was reprimanded for apologising on behalf of his master.

No it doesn't, except if you're a UMD supporter, which you happen to be.

Let me clear it up for everybody right now. Maknews was not the only Macedonian website on the internet when I was there or when I left, there were/are several others. If people like Risto, Daskale, myself and others did not meet at Maknews, we would have eventually crossed paths elsewhere, as most other Macedonian patriots have done in the past. The MTO owes absolutely nothing to Maknews, let alone its origins. It was an idea in the making long before I left that ghost town, and when I did eventually leave, I joined forces with some proven friends. The MTO was a necessity that was destined to come to fruition, and there is no other Macedonian website like it on the internet. Frankly, I consider the comparison with Maknews an insult.

Don't misunderstand it as something personal, the fact is, Meto is unable to answer truthfully on anything posed to him on this forum. He has no integrity, and I cannot respect people that lack such an attribute. He's a pretender, and I have absolutely no faith in him or his two-bit organisation.

Hope! I will leave hope for the faithfully blind, for I am more critical and hungry for real action. I am done waiting for Macedonian organisations to deliver on good faith, the UMD have shown nothing concrete where it concerns the sentiments of the Macedonian Diaspora.

How are they valuable to the Macedonian Diaspora when they refuse to convey the message that the Macedonian Diaspora is sending? We are saying NO to negotiations on our national name and identity. Where is the UMD to serve as our voice to the Macedonian government, the USA, etc? Instead, they pay lip service to them on every occasion, testing how far they can stick their heads up the asses of US politicians. Buktop, I don't want to waste my time discussing what these clowns stand for and what they have (not) done. Lord knows I have done plenty of this already, as have many others here, including yourself. If you're not here to convince me otherwise, stop trying to paint a rosy picture from a canvas full of lies and garbage.

If a conversation begins civil, let it remain as such. You will recall in your early days here where I made a similar statement towards yourself when you started using profanity in response to a post of mine which consisted of no such terminology. You saw reason then, as I am sure you see it now.

I understand your views, and respect your right to them, but I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I am not here to change your mind, merely to gain a mutual understanding of our positions. My hope is that you do not let this dispute over UMD affect our other discussions in unrelated matters.

[Vangelovski]

You really do have a problem Vangelovski, not everyone is as infatuated with the UMD as you are. Get a life man

I'm infatuated with natural rights and oppose those who violate them. UMD just happens to be one of those organisatons that negates our natural rights. You on the other hand seem to be infatuated with defending UMD specifically regardless of whether you agree with their position.

[Vangelovski]

I am not here to change your mind, merely to gain a mutual understanding of our positions.

You see SoM,

Buktop does not want to change your mind, he just wants to align your views with his. Now, if he was going to change his own mind, he would have done that already and would not expend so much time and engery debating with you. That leaves one option - you'll have to change your mind (though this is not Buktop's intention - just a natural course of action in order to align both of your views when the other refuses to change his).

[Pelister]

You really do have a problem Vangelovski, not everyone is as infatuated with the UMD as you are. Get a life man

Haha.

Watching your irrational quirks has been amusing. There is something very wrong with you - that much is clear. Most people can see that Macedonians are getting raped by Europe and by the West, but why would you want to see that continue? Its like your literally 'open' for business.

The fact is UMD has been historically compromised, and so has Meto Koloski with his name changes among other things...etc.

Sooner or later UMD are going to realise that you havn't done them any favors here.

[Pelister]

Buktop, your too wrapped up in your own drivel to see that you are actually doing UMD alot of damage, because if your the kind of 'mind' that UMD attracts to its agenda it actually says everything about the UMD organisation.

Our political extinction is in real time political play, and your going to sugar coat it and blow sunshine up our arses (while praising UMD for doing the same), by saying that we have nothing to be concerned about? Or worse, that there is a magical 'plan' somewhere in the ether waiting to materialise?

Who can honestly forget your claims to know what the Macedonian politicians are thinking and planning? Or, is this a different Buktop? Same name, different person?

[Buktop]

I'm infatuated with natural rights and oppose those who violate them. UMD just happens to be one of those organisatons that negates our natural rights. You on the other hand seem to be infatuated with defending UMD specifically regardless of whether you agree with their position.

When SoM asked me a question about why I changed my stance on EU, you felt compelled to relate it to a UMD press release, may I ask why you made that assertion? On what grounds or evidence did you base that assumption? and What makes you more qualified to answer a question posed to me, than myself?

You see, it's your conduct in this regard that gives you the appearance of a clown. If you don't have anything of value to say, I suggest you refrain from commenting, especially because you always seem to manage to dilute threads of importance with your personal insults.

[Buktop]

Haha.

Watching your irrational quirks has been amusing. There is something very wrong with you - that much is clear. Most people can see that Macedonians are getting raped by Europe and by the West, but why would you want to see that continue? Its like your literally 'open' for business.

The fact is UMD has been historically compromised, and so has Meto Koloski with his name changes among other things...etc.

Sooner or later UMD are going to realise that you havn't done them any favors here.

Pelister, when you learn to actually engage in conversation please feel free to join in, it would prove more useful than your useless parroting and your repetition. Out of your nearly 2000 posts, maybe a handful have been about something other than UMD, EU, and Rape.

We get the picture, now start delving deeper into the situation rather than professing some greater than thou, superficial understanding of the problem.

[Buktop]

You see SoM,

Buktop does not want to change your mind, he just wants to align your views with his. Now, if he was going to change his own mind, he would have done that already and would not expend so much time and engery debating with you. That leaves one option - you'll have to change your mind (though this is not Buktop's intention - just a natural course of action in order to align both of your views when the other refuses to change his).

Can you tell me what a mutual understanding is? Or are you just demonstrating your deficiencies with the English language again?

[Buktop]

Buktop, your too wrapped up in your own drivel to see that you are actually doing UMD alot of damage, because if your the kind of 'mind' that UMD attracts to its agenda it actually says everything about the UMD organisation.

Our political extinction is in real time political play, and your going to sugar coat it and blow sunshine up our arses (while praising UMD for doing the same), by saying that we have nothing to be concerned about? Or worse, that there is a magical 'plan' somewhere in the ether waiting to materialise?

Who can honestly forget your claims to know what the Macedonian politicians are thinking and planning? Or, is this a different Buktop? Same name, different person?

If I am doing so much damage to UMD, then why are you trying to stop me? I would be your best friend, wouldn't I?

What claims? I never claimed to have an intimate knowledge of the workings of the Macedonian government. I said all evidence indicates that I am correct in my assertions.

I dare you to quote for me where I said that I know what the government is thinking or planning.

This is not the first time you have lied to try and slander someone you disagree with, and you need to stop. Your lies and accusations, along with your rants and parroting are not the conduct of a decent or intelligent person.

So either back up your claims with evidence or stop being such a child.

[Vangelovski]

Can you tell me what a mutual understanding is? Or are you just demonstrating your deficiencies with the English language again?

Haha,

"a mutual understanding of our positions" can easily mean what I took it to - though UMDovci have always been vague with what they are trying to convey in order to be able to back-flip at a later time.