The first President of Greece was an Albanian, 1824!

[Soldier of Macedon]

TM,

I have seen you post a text concerning Kolokotronis' aim to have an bilingual country (Albanian-Greek), I can't seem to find that post, can you please add it here? Cheers.

Perhaps Kolokotronis' memoirs may hold the key answers to some important questions.

No need, just found it.

Alot of them were not given a choice of having a legal bi-lingual nation either. http://www.bridge-mag.com/magazine/i...=163&Itemid=42

http://www.bridge-mag.com/magazine/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=163&Itemid=42

Christos Homenidis

I must tell you that whenever I find myself in conversation with Greeks who feel inordinately proud of their ‘unadulterated Greekness,’ I love making them mad by reminding them that several of the revered heroes of the 1821 Greek Revolution ― such as Markos Botsaris, Kitsos Tzavellas and Andreas Miaoulis ― were Albanian-speaking warriors. And, furthermore, that Theodoros Kolokotronis himself wished for a bilingual country, with both Greek and Albanian inhabitants. From the time the modern Greek state was founded in 1830 to today, the conflict between the concepts of an open-minded, extrovert, cosmopolitan Greece and a small yet honorable, racially and religiously ‘clean and proper’ Greece has never ceased. It goes without saying that I side with the former and not with the latter, and that any kind of multiculturalism fascinates me.

Where does Homenidis get the indication that Kolokotronis desired such a country? Kolokotronis' memoirs?

[TrueMacedonian]

That's something to look into itself SoM. I believe we may find it elsewhere. His memoirs may have been altered by the State to make it more appealing to their myth. Kolokotroni was illiterate and his memoirs were written by a grk poet.

[TrueMacedonian]

Osiris can you point us in the direction of where we can find that document that states that Albanian or Arvanitika almost became the official language of modern "greece"? I remember you stating this before with a number of other people.

[osiris]

i will try tm, the language question was settled at nauphlion after independence was declared, greek i think was preffered by one single vote. there is a video on utube but i cant find it now.

[Soldier of Macedon]

http://www.worldsentinel.com/articles/view/85877

According to Ljalja´s research however, the number of Albanians living in today´s Greek territory is much larger than currently estimated because during the period from 1856 to 1858 two thirds of the population (66%) living in Greece was Albanian. The Albanians even had their own representatives in the Greek parliament. It was during this period that the Greek Parliament openly debated the issue of making the Albanian language a second official language of the Greek state. But that did not happen.

I have seen the article above posted elsewhere, we are closing in.

[Soldier of Macedon]

The plot thickens........

http://www.hydradirect.com/lazaros_koundouriotis_mansion

Lazaros Koundouriotis fought during the Greek War of Independence 1821 and is called "the Father of the Nation".

Architecturally, this is a superb example of a grand house in the true 1800's style on Hydra.

Who was Lazaros, the owner of this Koundouriotis Mansion and the father of the nation?

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=IdpEu1a19eAC&pg=PA394&lpg=PA394&dq=Lazaros+Koundouriotis&source=bl&ots=ruaGsWti0j&sig=UhnbNjDf8fU2G-9jxp_ckiCDzPM&hl=en&ei=tENoStb9H4zUsQP855WmBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7

None other than the elder brother of George Koundouriotis, the first president of the modern Greek state who DID NOT SPEAK GREEK.


The link above provides reference to various correspondence during the early stages of the Christian rebellion against the Ottomans in the 1820's, some in French and some in English. The Koundouriotis brothers seem to be in the thick of things from the very beginning, rubbing shoulders with the Gordon's and Byron's, financing the fleets supplied from Hydra, and as noted, gaining the presidency of the new state.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Here is some more on ole George, the Albanian leader of Greeks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgios_Kountouriotis

Georgios Kountouriotis (Greek: Γεωργιος Κουντουριώτης) (1782 - 1858) a Prime Minister of Greece. He was born in 1782 on the Saronic island of Hydra to an Albanian-Greek family[1]. He was the brother of Lazaros Kountouriotis who fought in the Greek War of Independence and grandfather of Pavlos Kountouriotis who fought in the First Balkan War and later served as first President of the Greek Republic.

When the War of Independence broke out, Georgios, along with the rest of the Kountouriotis family, supported the effort with generous donations as well as with their ships. He was often at odds with other Hydriot sea captains, but ultimately was the wealtiest. Georgios Kountouriotis became a member of the executive committee of the Greek Revolution and served as its President from 1823 to 1826 during the crucial time of the siege of Messolonghi.

After independence, he became a member of the cabinet of Ioannis Kapodistrias, the first governor of Greece. He was a semi-independent adherent of the French Party mostly due to his antipathy to the Russian Party and his fellow Hydriots of the English Party. During the period of French Party ascendancy in the reign off King Otto, he served as Prime Minister. He died in 1858.

President and Prime Minister. The "Albanian-Greek family" text that appears to indicate a part Albanian - part Greek origin for Koundouriotis is a misrepresentation, as it is a known fact that George could not speak Greek. Furthermore, nowhere does Trudgill indicate a part Albanian - part Greek origin, his reference to Koundouriotis is within the scope of the Arvanitika language in Greece, hence the 'Albanian-Greek' term. See below:

http://books.google.com/books?id=CZUhoFE-OoQC&pg=PA136&dq=hydra+arvanitika

Here is something else from Trudgill, who suggested that at the time of the Ottoman conquest, what came to be known as Greece was 45% Albanian.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=846

And another Koundouriotis, this one called Pavlos.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavlos_Kountouriotis

Pavlos Kountouriotis (Greek: Παύλος Κουντουριώτης, 1855-1935) was a Greek admiral of Arvanite descent [1], naval hero during the Balkan Wars and twice President of Greece.


Pavlos Kountouriotis was a member of the historical Kountouriotis family which originated from the island of Hydra, Saronic Islands as many of the heroes of 1821; many members of the family took part in the Greek War of Independence, including his grandfather, Georgios Kountouriotis, who was Prime Minister of Greece under King Otto. The original family name was Zervas but was changed to Kountouriotis, since one of their ancestors lived for a while in the village of Kountoura, Megarida.

My, my, what a fine 'Hellenic' family of Albanians, one an Admiral, another the President, and the other a Millionaire. Is there anything famous about the 'independence' war that isn't Albanian?

[TrueMacedonian]

The following credit for this new find goes to Currency Trader and his post on the maknews forum. Nice find CT.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/arts/design/24abroad.html?_r=2&pagewanted=2&sq=Albanian%20Marbles&st=cse&scp=1

Nikos Dimous states in a very recent NY times article;

“We used to speak Albanian and call ourselves Romans, but then Winckelmann, Goethe, Victor Hugo, Delacroix, they all told us, ‘No, you are Hellenes, direct descendants of Plato and Socrates,’ and that did it. If a small, poor nation has such a burden put on its shoulders, it will never recover.”

Go ahead you ethnic "greeks" with your plastic identity. Stuff your heads in the sand

[Risto the Great]

To be fair, Lazaros Koundouriotis sacrificed much of his family wealth for the benefit of Greek independence.

But I wonder what kind of Greece he and his people envisioned.

?

I noticed some maggots included Lazaros on their list of "Greeks" here. Perhaps they should strike him off ... I am sure people like "Voulgaris" might be dubious as well.

http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/general-greek-history/765-modern-greeks-were-created.html 

[Risto the Great]

In practice the Greeks had only exchanged arbitrary rule by Bavarians for arbitrary rule by others scarcely closer to themselves. The first six prime ministers under the new constitutions were all war-time leaders, several of them only nominally Greek. They included the Phanariote Mavrokordatos,the Vlakh Kolettis, and the Albanian Koundouriotis. With the exception of the last prime minister of Otho's reign, Admiral Kanaris,all of them paid litle regard to the constitution which had cost them so much toil and intrigue.
Mavrokordatos in particular culpably betrayed his trust as Greece's first constitutional prime minister(March 1844), and was compelled to resign within six months. Kolettis, who succeeded him in August 1844,remained in office until his death three years later. Neither took naturally to democratic principles, though both had a superficial acquanintance with Western Europe. Mavrokordatos' background was the Phanariote society of Constantinpole and the Rumanian principalities.

Modern Greece A Short History
C.M. Woodhouse
Page 162

[TrueMacedonian]

page 262



Balkan Background by Bernard Newman

Isn't it funny how our southern neighbors all scream at us that we're going to have an Albanian president????? Yet they had 3 since the beginning of their nations existence. And lord knows how many more to date.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Should this be something to be ashamed of? Of course not, modern Greeks should embrace their recent creators and their real heroes.

[Pelister]

Should this be something to be ashamed of? Of course not, modern Greeks should embrace their recent creators and their real heroes.

That is the problem isn't it.

They can't be honest about their past.

[Soldier of Macedon]

You tell an average Greek today about their Albanian and Germanic past and they stare at you with disbelief or think of you as provocative, most of them seriously have absolutely NO idea about the origins of their modern nation. It is really quite pitiful, there is no acknowledgement at all, they wouldn't even know who their first president was or who constructed modern Athens.

[TrueMacedonian]

I want to bring something to light for everyone in here and to prove SoM's point. Look at these wiki articles;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Zaimis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrasivoulos_Zaimis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandros_Zaimis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor...galos_(general)

None of them spill the beans on their true ethnic character. How ashamed are they that their own presidents, prime ministers, Generals and Admirals were all Albanian? Very ashamed.