Dura Europos

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Slovak

If their goal was to create a common language for communication throughout Eastern Europe, then they sure fooled most people.

Who did they fool Slovak, Rastislav and the Moravians? Or did they fool the Romans after pleading their case for Slavonic to be respected on par with Hebrew, Greek and Latin as a language of the Christian Church? All of this effort just for a political motive and humble Moravia? I don't think so.

Their whole mission in the first place was not to convert Slavs to Christianity, but to bring them under the wing of the Eastern Church.

They translated the Bible and religious texts. For all intents and purposes, their mission was to convert non-Christian Slavs to Christianity and provide them literacy in a language they could understand, while at the same time bringing them under the sway of Constantinople. This turned out the be the perfect alternative to the foreign Greek and Latin tongues.

[Delodephius]

For all intents and purposes, their mission was to convert non-Christian Slavs to Christianity

The Slavs of Moravia were already Christian and had translations of prayers and liturgies from Latin. Freising manuscript is one such remain. And most religious terminology in use was of Latin Old High German origin and not Greek. The only larger group of Pagans that were under the rule of Great Moravia were to the west in Bohemia and missions were sent there to convert them.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by SoM

...........and provide them literacy in a language they could understand.

As was initially requested by Rastislav.

[Delodephius]

Yes, but that doesn't mean they weren't already Christian. They only had trouble with a foreign language.
Plus, the main reason Methodius went was to enforce Byzantine law in Great Moravia. That was one of Rastislav's request, to send them a man knowing the secular law. There are copies of Methodius translations of the East Roman law books (Eclogue of Leo III the Isaurian and Constantine V Copronymus). Constantine was sent to translate the sacral texts but he in fact then finished Methodius' translations in a coherent whole.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Slovak/Anomaly/Tomas

Plus, the main reason Methodius went was to enforce Byzantine law in Great Moravia. That was one of Rastislav's request, to send them a man knowing the secular law.

So in your opinion, it was more important for Rastislav to change from West to East Roman law, rather than having somebody provide them teachers and books in a language his simple Slavic folk could understand? I believe that Rastislav could see the potential in such a mission by the brothers as more than just the introduction of secular law, but also as the opportunity to break the shackles of foreign domination in church and liturgical affairs by using a language they could understand as a primary.

If Methodius' only aim during the mission was to enforce East Roman law, the subsequent events that took place would not have taken place. Michael III may have seen it from a purely political viewpoint, but I don't believe that is the case with the brothers and their students.

Here is part of the transliteration that you and I worked on, together with Coolski/Bushav.

Moravian guests in East Roman Empire speaking on behalf of their ruler Rastislav, aimed at Emperor Michael III:

........jако божиjеjу милостиjу съдрави jесмь и суть въ ни въшьли учителе мнози крьстиjани из Влахъ и из Грькъ и из Наемьць, учаште ни различь, а ми Словаени проста чадь и не имамь, иже би ни наставилъ на истину и разумъ съказалъ. то добраеи владико, посъли такъ мужь, иже ни исправить вьсеку правьду.

Emperor Michael III to Constantine (Cyril), who was in his presence:

слишиши ли, философе, раечь сиjу? инъ сего да не можетъ сътворити развае тебе. тае на ти дари мнози и поимъ братъ свои игуменъ Мефедии иди же. ви бо jеста Селуненина, да Селунене вьси чьсто словаењски бесаедуjуть.

I interpret the above as Rastislav saying that they have been sent various foreign teachers who speak foreign languages, but his simple Slavic folk don't have anybody of their own. Michael's immediate response is telling, as he turns straight towards Constantine and makes reference to his native city and the prevalent language in it, which is Slavonic. Political opportunism on Michael's behalf? Quite probable. Political opportunism on Constantine's behalf? Unlikely. He went to alot of trouble not for politics, but for the promotion of the Slavonic tongue, this cannot be disputed, if it was just political he would not have went all the way to Rome to seek approval and justify his case in the famous manner that he did.

[Delodephius]

So in your opinion, it was more important for Rastislav to change from West to East Roman law, rather than having somebody provide them teachers and books in a language his simple Slavic folk could understand? I believe that Rastislav could see the potential in such a mission by the brothers as more than just the introduction of secular law, but also as the opportunity to break the shackles of foreign domination in church and liturgical affairs by using a language they could understand as a primary.

Yes but, except the Bible all other necessary religious texts were already translated from Latin, Italian and German, like the Lord's Prayer and the Credo.

Rastislav demanded at least three things, all of which were already partially done in Great Moravia by him and his predecessors. Before sending a letter to Constantinople Rastislav himself was first in Rome to ask for the same things where he wasn't successful: 1. teachers to educate local clergy (Constantine); 2. men knowledgeable in secular law (Methodius); 3. translator for religious texts in a familiar language (both of the brothers). Rastislav wanted to make his state more self-sufficient and for this he need local men trained both in sacral and secular matters to counter the offensive German expansion into his kingdom (which stopped during Svetopluk's time, but by his better mastery of the sword than at a negotiations table). Methodius was also councillor in military matters being a former strategos.
We also must not forget that the brothers were also at the court of the Panonian duke Kocel and opened schools there as well.

All of Rastislav's work was mostly in vain since under Svetopluk the new German clergy exiled all of the Slavonic clergy, those which were not kill, and the Slavonic language was expelled out of Great Moravia's churches, apart from few forgotten monasteries.

[DedoAleko]

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Shield (Scutum) Paint on Wood and Rawhide, H. 105.5 cm, W. 41.0 cm, D. 30.0 cm From Tower 19, Dura-Europos, mid-3rd century CE Yale University Art Gallery, Yale-French Excavations at Dura-Europos: 1933.715 Photography © 2011 Yale University Art Gallery

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