South Australian Premier Mike Rann, an enemy to Macedonians

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  • Daniel
    Junior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 51

    #31
    Prolet, I am also from South Australia, and i know for a fact that there is one other on here.

    I believe the main issue is that there is strength in numbers, which we would could have in SA, however, political/church division has seen our community segregated which has loss of interest from other (younger) Macedonians. I know both RTG and Julie, yet i have not seen RTG add to these numbers for quite a long time (albeit there is a fair reason for his absence for the majority of this year) and i do not believe i have ever seen Julie.

    The fact is, the Macedonian diaspora here needs to surpass the issues that do not allow us to unify into the strength we could possibly become.

    Comment

    • julie
      Senior Member
      • May 2009
      • 3869

      #32
      Originally posted by Daniel View Post
      Prolet, I am also from South Australia, and i know for a fact that there is one other on here.

      I believe the main issue is that there is strength in numbers, which we would could have in SA, however, political/church division has seen our community segregated which has loss of interest from other (younger) Macedonians. I know both RTG and Julie, yet i have not seen RTG add to these numbers for quite a long time (albeit there is a fair reason for his absence for the majority of this year) and i do not believe i have ever seen Julie.

      The fact is, the Macedonian diaspora here needs to surpass the issues that do not allow us to unify into the strength we could possibly become.
      hello Daniel
      am trying to work out who you are. pozdrav.
      Easter Mass was the last time I was in the community following an absence of 3 years, I have had some serious health issues, and will not get into it here, aside from am trying to stabilise, try to work and look after my family.
      That does not discount my love and pride for my people, I grew up in the community.

      How can the Macedonian diaspora surpass the issues we are faced with here Daniel?
      You will find many Macedonians that are not actively involved within the Community, for whatever their reasons fighting to preserve and get acknowledged for our rightful name

      this forum is a wonderful way of connecting and sharing ideas.
      Health permitting, will see you at the orthodox christmas mass, (i will be the one searching faces, for i am unsure of who you are. no matter we are all united )
      "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

      Comment

      • Daniel
        Junior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 51

        #33
        I am not saying that not being part of a community means that you are not doing your all for the Macedonian cause, however, i do believe that together we can make more of a difference then as individuals. The communities that we created here are what have brung us to the stage that we are now in and we owe it to them that Macedonians have a place to celebrate their culture and tradition amongst brethren.

        The communities around Australia all face issues, however the communities in SA cannot sustain themselves as the multiple communities do in melbourne and sydney, we just dont have the people for so many, especially when they are placed so arrogantly close to each other. What i invisige for the Macedonians here is unity through the youth, and i have a few ideas on how that can happen and am about to go into the planning stage of it within the next few weeks

        Comment

        • Risto the Great
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 15658

          #34
          Originally posted by Daniel View Post
          I know both RTG and Julie, yet i have not seen RTG add to these numbers for quite a long time (albeit there is a fair reason for his absence for the majority of this year) and i do not believe i have ever seen Julie.

          The fact is, the Macedonian diaspora here needs to surpass the issues that do not allow us to unify into the strength we could possibly become.
          D, instead of trying to get the best out of members of the community. These little communities (like the SA one) do their utmost to be petty and self-serving. As an example, it constantly astounds me why they would not be chasing membership numbers (amongst other things).

          Given a choice between the local community and the (cyber) world stage, I am happy here for now.
          Risto the Great
          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

          Comment

          • julie
            Senior Member
            • May 2009
            • 3869

            #35
            Originally posted by Daniel View Post
            I am not saying that not being part of a community means that you are not doing your all for the Macedonian cause, however, i do believe that together we can make more of a difference then as individuals. The communities that we created here are what have brung us to the stage that we are now in and we owe it to them that Macedonians have a place to celebrate their culture and tradition amongst brethren.

            The communities around Australia all face issues, however the communities in SA cannot sustain themselves as the multiple communities do in melbourne and sydney, we just dont have the people for so many, especially when they are placed so arrogantly close to each other. What i invisige for the Macedonians here is unity through the youth, and i have a few ideas on how that can happen and am about to go into the planning stage of it within the next few weeks
            I agree with you wholeheartedly, the youth are our future, and it is unsustainable for the community to continue with the division (the church has a lot to answer for especially here in Adelaide)

            We are all like minded here, and share a common goal
            "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

            Comment

            • julie
              Senior Member
              • May 2009
              • 3869

              #36
              Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
              D, instead of trying to get the best out of members of the community. These little communities (like the SA one) do their utmost to be petty and self-serving. As an example, it constantly astounds me why they would not be chasing membership numbers (amongst other things).

              Given a choice between the local community and the (cyber) world stage, I am happy here for now.
              Risto, its always been like that, I have watched it for the best part of my life, and its unfortunate.
              And even harder when one disagrees with their family member on what should be done and they sit on the fence.
              frustration reigns supreme my friend

              I too am happy in the cyber world, for now
              "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

              Comment

              • Daniel
                Junior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 51

                #37
                Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                D, instead of trying to get the best out of members of the community. These little communities (like the SA one) do their utmost to be petty and self-serving. As an example, it constantly astounds me why they would not be chasing membership numbers (amongst other things).

                Given a choice between the local community and the (cyber) world stage, I am happy here for now.
                Fair enough RTG, your choice is your own and i slightly understand the reasoning behind your actions, however, i am not of the same mind set as you and plan to continue with the community as i believe it is the place for me.

                Who knows, maybe your children would even start back at the school there, its been a few years.

                Comment

                • julie
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2009
                  • 3869

                  #38
                  Originally posted by Daniel View Post
                  Fair enough RTG, your choice is your own and i slightly understand the reasoning behind your actions, however, i am not of the same mind set as you and plan to continue with the community as i believe it is the place for me.



                  your quote
                  Who knows, maybe your children would even start back at the school there, its been a few years.
                  Daniel, that is disrespectful, we all need to stop judging each other.
                  Everyone has their reasons and some personal not for disclosure

                  and i will say it again
                  The Macedonians are their own worst enemies
                  "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

                  Comment

                  • Daniel
                    Junior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 51

                    #39
                    i really do not see how it is julie, RTG knows i respect him and i have not said anything bad against him, i even said i understood (to a degree) his actions, although that does not mean that i agree with him

                    although i must agree with you, we do not need greeks when we have ourselves

                    Comment

                    • Prolet
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2009
                      • 5241

                      #40
                      Daniel, I must say i dont know too much about the Macedonian Community in South Australia. I know that there were some church issues but pretty much every state has that with Bishop Petar, its bitterly dividing our community.

                      I do agree that our Youth is the future and without them it will be very difficult. For starters our youngsters need to know the Macedonian Language then from there on things can only grow.
                      МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                      Comment

                      • Rogi
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 2343

                        #41
                        You guys in SA will find it extremely difficult, particularly with the likes of Nick Xenophon and Nick Bolkus (who is officially now a lobbyist, starting a firm together with Alexander Downer).

                        It's not just that the Greeks are more numerous there (though this is a huge factor, with the number of Greeks officially at about 30+ times the number of Macedonians), I think their actual voter bloc size is not as important as the influence of only a few well-placed individuals who are the power-brokers of politics in SA, as well as a number of very wealthy (see Australian rich lists) Greeks in SA.

                        Take WA as an example of where the Greeks are still more numerous (13,000 against 8,000, according to official census data), albeit not as disproportionate as in SA, yet the Macedonians are more well placed and organised and thus, WA as a State has recognised the Constitutional name of the Republic of Macedonia and stands in stark opposition to SA on the Macedonian issue.

                        Comment

                        • julie
                          Senior Member
                          • May 2009
                          • 3869

                          #42
                          Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                          You guys in SA will find it extremely difficult, particularly with the likes of Nick Xenophon and Nick Bolkus (who is officially now a lobbyist, starting a firm together with Alexander Downer).

                          It's not just that the Greeks are more numerous there (though this is a huge factor, with the number of Greeks officially at about 30+ times the number of Macedonians), I think their actual voter bloc size is not as important as the influence of only a few well-placed individuals who are the power-brokers of politics in SA, as well as a number of very wealthy (see Australian rich lists) Greeks in SA.

                          Take WA as an example of where the Greeks are still more numerous (13,000 against 8,000, according to official census data), albeit not as disproportionate as in SA, yet the Macedonians are more well placed and organised and thus, WA as a State has recognised the Constitutional name of the Republic of Macedonia and stands in stark opposition to SA on the Macedonian issue.
                          So Rogi, what are we to do? with a small group of people and what is our alternative? SA has alwayss been conservative on most issues compared with the other states, albeit on this one issue, how is it possible for us to make any changes?
                          ili za nishte tuka se nervirame, ako nemame idnina bez razlika shto nie sme imame vo mislite ili vo srceto,
                          tuka vo ova tugina zemja, e kako vo stari kray, vo egeyskiot del vo makedonia, da gi ostavame vaka da ne klavat dolo, bez nikakva pomozh?
                          kazhete Makedontsi, kako da pravime tuka, za da imame maltse pravi tuka , i da ne gazat poveke dushmanite edni pitchka materina na niv gypska gtrchka
                          "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

                          Comment

                          • Risto the Great
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 15658

                            #43
                            Originally posted by Daniel View Post
                            Who knows, maybe your children would even start back at the school there, its been a few years.
                            Interesting point. Is Goran still the teacher? Why would I want my children being influenced by a petulant little boy who has publicly denounced this forum as being "nationalist" and not in the interest of world harmony? I can give you precise quotes if you like. How on Earth a person like that has been placed in a position of influence is beyond me.

                            Daniel, you must do what you can with the community. I spent a few years on the board and felt the apathy. I wanted to initiate a special button in the boardroom to press whenever the most important question was asked "kolku kebapi da kupime za vecherinkata".

                            As I said, do what you can. Start with finding out why so many members have not renewed their membership. I will let you in on a secret, I have been playing a little game with them. I want someone to ask me why I have not. (I think it has been 5 years waiting now)
                            Risto the Great
                            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                            Comment

                            • Daniel
                              Junior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 51

                              #44
                              Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                              Interesting point. Is Goran still the teacher? Why would I want my children being influenced by a petulant little boy who has publicly denounced this forum as being "nationalist" and not in the interest of world harmony? I can give you precise quotes if you like. How on Earth a person like that has been placed in a position of influence is beyond me.

                              Daniel, you must do what you can with the community. I spent a few years on the board and felt the apathy. I wanted to initiate a special button in the boardroom to press whenever the most important question was asked "kolku kebapi da kupime za vecherinkata".

                              As I said, do what you can. Start with finding out why so many members have not renewed their membership. I will let you in on a secret, I have been playing a little game with them. I want someone to ask me why I have not. (I think it has been 5 years waiting now)
                              No need for quotes, i know exactly what you are talking about and i also believe that both sides of this issue have different thoughts on what happened, although i must say that i do not agree with his thoughts on this forum. He is the only person here that is qualified for such a role, although you would be happy to know that due to time constraints, he will only be setting up the teaching programs, there will be someone else doing the teaching/tutoring.

                              I honestly believe that the board now is quite different to that the ones of old, it is more proactive and modernized and less worried about the kebapi and believe it or not, your participation would be more influential and worth more at this stage then before. There arnt as many Macedonian in our community who know about Macedonian issues, who are professionals, who know more then just the politics that divide us, who are of an age to actually do something then there were before, and instead of all those able coming together to benefit not only the community and the Macedonians in the state, but also the Macedonian cause, we find our communities dwindling into what will sooner then later be nothing, we will become an invisible diaspora in the state were just 30-40 years ago, the bishop hailed us the most organised of all communities in his realm (Australia, America and Canada)

                              I will talk about the other issues through PM
                              Last edited by Daniel; 12-02-2009, 04:29 PM.

                              Comment

                              • Risto the Great
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 15658

                                #45
                                Daniel, I am glad you are aware of the precise nature of my interaction with Goran. To suggest this forum "promotes nationalistic and inhumane views" and then continue with his wonderfully inclusive approach to world peace is less than heart warming for me. You suggest I could be of use to the community. But alas, I am somewhat opposed to Goran's ideology as follows:
                                "Our practices uphold the principles of diversity, culture, learning and sense of community, rather than creating wars or conflicts. We do not support destructive conflict, but we foster a positive learning culture which opens the door for personal and community exploration."
                                I am all for "destructive conflict" when it comes to my identity and people's insistence in denying it.

                                If you feel there is anything further to the silly interaction with Goran that somehow implicates me or tarnishes my intentions, then I want to know. Just in case, here was my final response to him:
                                Dear Goran,
                                I sent that email merely as an invitation to the many Macedonians (the majority of) whom I know on that mailing list.
                                It is ridiculous to send out emails to entire lists without using the BCC function available on modern email programs.

                                Since the emails came to me on public record, I assumed the recipients would be willing to receive them.

                                Next time when you are protecting the privacy of the individuals (as your commitment below indicates), be sure to remove the email adresses from everybody's view.

                                I am not sure how any of this will help in "creating a learning and inclusive culture for all" but rest-assured I will not use that particular mailing list in the future.

                                Further, you have stated below that the forum "promotes nationalistic and inhumane views". Please be advised that you are incorrect and that I am utterly disgusted with the inclusion of that statement in a group email. Whilst I am sickened by the dis-unity in most communities and will always choose to avoid conflict, I strongly urge you to retract that statement in order to avoid further recourse.
                                When my kids went to Macedonian school, they would learn how to colour in books whilst Goran would go and assist the priest. It was less than thrilling. If you will be placing something additional on the table, I look forward to your initiatives.

                                Whilst I was involved with the community at executive level, I was very eager to develop and action a "community plan". Feel free to read the minutes as the plan was deferred for at least 2 years. My attendance was exceptional you might note. I was also very eager to ensure membership of the community was placed at the utmost level of importance. Alas, nobody was interested in pursuing long lost or possible members. I certainly have not discouraged anybody from joining, quite the opposite in fact. I was merely proving a point about it a while back. Now I am merely a little apathetic about it.

                                If I ever get back there, it will be to lead the community. Plain and simple as I will not tolerate anything else. I know it sounds arrogant, but it needs that much of a shake up for me to be interested. I will also mention that I have always provided my services in any capacity to the community gratis and also note that others feel they have been too important or valuable to do the same. It is a great shame that these petty communities have a habit of burning the people that assisted and contributed in the past. I hope there is a way that can be avoided in the future.
                                Risto the Great
                                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                                Comment

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