Muslims in Balkan Should Promote Europe of Peace and Hope

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  • Philosopher
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 1003

    Muslims in Balkan Should Promote Europe of Peace and Hope

    Prof. Dr. Enes Karic has summarised his speech at the opening session of the conference “Islam in the Balkans” saying that Islamic communities of the Balkans should promote Europe of meeting, Europe of peace and Europe of hope.

    “Islam in Balkans” conference was opened on October 10 2014 at Hilton hotel in Vienna under the patronage and in the presence of the Austrian President Dr. Heinz Fischer. It was organized jointly by the Islamic Community in Austria, (IGGiÖ) and the Islamic community institutions in the EU.

    The conference was attended by high level representatives of the Islamic community in the EU. It was sponsored by the Austrian ministry for foreign affairs, the city of Vienna, the (ICCiÖ), Austrian Integration Fund, Austrian Islamic Union for Culture and other organizations and banks. An audience from universities, cultural and academic circles attended the ceremony. Ms. Carla Amina Baghajati, IGGiÖ spokeswoman was the moderator of the opening sessions of the conference.

    Dr. Karic said: “This year marks the anniversary of the one hundred years of the beginning of the First World War and the Sarajevo assassination. The last, twentieth century left millions of victims in the Balkans. Almost all the views to the past are known and I would not like to speak about those.”

    He added: “Peace among religions today in the Balkans is a view into the future. Peace is a value without alternative. The Islamic communities in the Balkans have the opportunity to create many peace projects among the Muslims, but also among all the religions. Islam as a faith, a culture and a civilization has potential for peace projects.”

    In his speech, Dr. Karic gave two examples were mentioned in the holy pages of both the Bible and the Qur’an. He said:

    “Firstly, our father Adam (Adem a.s.) symbolizes this great possibility for promotion of peace. This Adamic dimension of Judaism, Christianity and Islam connects all the Muslims of the Balkans to all the people.”

    “Secondly, the Jews, Christians and Muslims of the Balkans trace their spiritual roots also from an Abrahamic source. This Abrahamic branch brings to one spiritual place Muslims, Christians and Jews. Whenever we interpret the Qur’an, we should have in mind both the Adamic and Abrahamic dimension of Islam. Both dimensions open spaces of peaceful contact and coexistence of Muslims with Christians and Jews.”

    He emphasized the nurture of a traditional Islam in the Balkans saying: “Under the syntagm ”traditional Islam in the Balkans” I mean a set of religious, cultural and civilization forms of Islam that survived and outlived both the Ottoman Empire and the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and also survived the Kingdom of Yugoslavia and the socialist Yugoslavia.

    The traditional Islam in the Balkans is an autochthonous Islam. It is an Islam of the local cultural roots. It contains many syncretic elements and it is open to a ”folk Islam”, to sufism and sufi orders, and it also has had its distinctive character from the 1878 onwards, in the context of the secular states created in the Balkans.”

    He stated that the traditional Islam in the Balkans our religious scholars developed fruitful interpretations of Islam. These interpretations did not come into conflict with the secular states in the Balkans. Of course, it is known that secular states of a communist type did not offer large spaces of freedom for religion, but alims, hojas and religious authorities of Islam in the Balkans avoided problematic interpretations and promoted peace options.

    He said that the Islamic scholars in the Balkans realized a great importance of inclusive interpretation of Islam and non-resistance of the state which is respecting the basic civil freedoms and rights. Therefore ulema, hojas, sufis of the Balkans, preserved those spiritual sources of traditional Islam in the Balkans. It proved to be a right decision.
    Therefore, it is important to direct our Islamic education in madrassas and Islamic faculties in the Balkans to the aim of preservation and affirmation of the spiritual sources of traditional Islam in the Balkans. Our Islamic education in the Balkans should affirm universal values of Islam.

    Islam and the European Union

    Dr. Karic said that the third priority of the Islamic communities in the Balkans is European Union. I would like to mention that two Islamic communities with members from the Balkans now exist in European Union: Islamic Community in the Republic of Slovenia and the Islamic community in the Republic of Croatia. Of course, I have in mind the fact that a large number of small micro-Islamic communities with members originally from the Balkans found their home in the European Union as well.

    In relation to the European Union and the Balkans I would like to mention a few important things. Firstly, one should pragmatically observe the arrival of the European Union to the Balkans. The European Union has for tens of years already been a homeland of prosperity and welfare for the hundreds of millions of people, among them for millions of Muslims as well.
    Secondly, the project of Europe after 1945 is not a project of a closed Europe, but of an open Europe.

    Thirdly, the first two priorities I mentioned, peace and traditional Islam, can be saved in an easier way in the case of the inclusion of the whole Balkans into the European Union.
    It is our task today to strive in the path of promoting these spiritual and practical interpretations of Islam, in the context of the upcoming European and Euroatlantic integrations in the Balkans. These interpretations should not be problematic, but inclusive. Naturally, we hope that European Union, as our de facto current and future ruler, shall respect Muslim components of the Balkans and Europe.

    I would like to say in the very end of this speech that we, the Muslims coming from the Islamic communities in the Balkans, should contribute to further creation of this European openness. We should always point out that Europe, in cultural and civilizational sense, apart from its Greek and Biblical roots, has its origins in the classical forms of Muslim medicine, mathematics, philosophy, geography, etc.

    Muslims and Islamic communities of the Balkans should promote Europe of meeting, Europe of peace, Europe of hope.
  • Philosopher
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 1003

    #2
    There are many questionable statements in this article.

    “Firstly, our father Adam (Adem a.s.) symbolizes this great possibility for promotion of peace. This Adamic dimension of Judaism, Christianity and Islam connects all the Muslims of the Balkans to all the people.”
    This is an absurd statement.

    “Secondly, the Jews, Christians and Muslims of the Balkans trace their spiritual roots also from an Abrahamic source. This Abrahamic branch brings to one spiritual place Muslims, Christians and Jews. Whenever we interpret the Qur’an, we should have in mind both the Adamic and Abrahamic dimension of Islam. Both dimensions open spaces of peaceful contact and coexistence of Muslims with Christians and Jews.”
    I'm a bit tired of hearing ignorant people wax on theological discussions and the alleged similarity between these monotheistic religions. The central tenants between these three religions are so wide that irreconcilable gulfs exist between them.

    We should always point out that Europe, in cultural and civilizational sense, apart from its Greek and Biblical roots, has its origins in the classical forms of Muslim medicine, mathematics, philosophy, geography, etc.
    Substitute "Arab" for Muslim and this may be correct in limited capacity.

    Comment

    • spitfire
      Banned
      • Aug 2014
      • 868

      #3
      Judaism, Christianity and Islam, don't have differences in the central idea.
      That of one God who is merciful enough as to care for the salvation of the human soul.

      What makes you think that Islam is different from Christianity Philosopher? The third part of the trilogy (Quran)?

      Comment

      • Philosopher
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 1003

        #4
        Originally posted by Spitfire
        Judaism, Christianity and Islam, don't have differences in the central idea.
        That of one God who is merciful enough as to care for the salvation of the human soul.
        They have irreconcilable differences. Judaism is what I would call a racial religion. By racial I mean Judaism ascribes “chosiness” to a specific people, namely, the descendants of Abraham via his son Isaac. Muslims believe Abraham's seed is to be reckoned via Ishmael, the son of Abraham's concubine, and thus see themselves are the rightful descendants of Abraham. Christianity believes in a descent of the children of promise, a spiritual descent from Abraham, as the children of faith.

        All three points are critical in understanding salvation.

        Here are some specifies:

        Christians believe in the Trinity – the co-equal and co-eternal nature of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Muslims reject the Trinity as polytheism.

        Christians believe the second person in the Trinity – Jesus Christ, became incarnated as the God-man. Muslims reject the incarnation of the Logos, who John identifies as the God-man, Jesus Christ.

        Christians believe salvation is only through the redemptive work of Jesus Christ – namely, the blood atonement on the cross. There is no salvation in any other. Muslims do not believe in the atonement of Jesus Christ. In fact, Muslims do not believe Jesus was crucified, but someone who looked like him because Allah decided to deceive the Jews. Muslims do not believe salvation is through Christ at all.

        Christians believe all have sinned and only the blood of Christ can saved people from their sins. Muslims do not believe all have sinned.

        Christians believe salvation is by the grace of God. Islam is a religion of works.

        The messages the angel Gabriel gave at the birth of Jesus and allegedly to Mohamed are contradictory. Both cannot be true.

        Christianity has taught that the final revelation of God is the New Testament. Islam believes the Quran was.

        Muslims also believe the Bible is corrupt and only the Quran is perfect and the final revelation of Allah. The Quran also teaches that Paul corrupted the New Testament and Christianity.

        Judaism, similar to Islam, rejects the divinity of Jesus Christ; rejects the Trinity; rejects the atonement of Christ on the cross; rejects that salvation is of grace, and not of works; rejects salvation in Christ alone; and unlike Islam, even rejects that Jesus was the Messiah.

        If you are an Orthodox Christian, Spitifre, I am sure you would know the many treaties written by the Church Fathers (starting from the Islam era) documenting the many erroneous teachings of Islam and the many heresies of that religion.

        What makes you think that Islam is different from Christianity Philosopher? The third part of the trilogy (Quran)?
        The only similarity between Islam and Christianity is that Islam's founder, Mohamed, knew imperfectly some of the passages of the Old and New Testaments and decided to accept some of them that was in conformity to his new religion and reject everything else that didn't.

        Comment

        • spitfire
          Banned
          • Aug 2014
          • 868

          #5
          Philosopher, you are describing something that resembles a difference in doctrine.
          I'm sure you can find such differences between Christians. Especially the trinity and how it is interpreted between the orthodox church and the catholics. That's what brought the filioque issue.

          I was mainly talking about the main idea. Yes, I am an orthodox christian, to answer your question. That does not mean that I don't regard Islam as a faith that has the same aim.
          If we read the holy tradition of the Muslims, the Hadith, it is very clear that it is about trying to be a good person through acts of mercy. This is also the main idea in the Quran.

          As for the trilogy (old testament, new testament, quran) I find it very logical the believers of the older books not to accept the believers of the newer books. And I find it logical for the believers of the new books to accept the older books.

          About the peace, Islam is also a religion of peace. However it is not a pacifist religion. But that was in the time of Mohamed.

          Comment

          • Philosopher
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 1003

            #6
            Originally posted by spitfire View Post
            Judaism, Christianity and Islam, don't have differences in the central idea.
            That of one God who is merciful enough as to care for the salvation of the human soul.
            Spitfire, apart from the "one God" comment, most, if not virtually all religions, do not have a difference in the central idea of a God or gods who are merciful enough for the salvation of the human soul.

            Originally posted by Spitfire
            I was mainly talking about the main idea. Yes, I am an orthodox christian, to answer your question. That does not mean that I don't regard Islam as a faith that has the same aim.
            Islam and Christianity have irreconcilable differences. Islam does not have the same aim as Christianity.

            What makes you think that Islam is different from Christianity Philosopher? The third part of the trilogy (Quran)?
            This idea of a "trilogy" is not Christian. The Quran is inconsistent with Christianity.

            Originally posted by Spitfire
            ]As for the trilogy (old testament, new testament, quran) I find it very logical the believers of the older books not to accept the believers of the newer books. And I find it logical for the believers of the new books to accept the older books.
            Spitfire, your comments seem to suggest you are either deeply ignorant of the Bible, very naive, or your idea of what a Christian is is very flawed.

            Originally posted by Spitfire
            About the peace, Islam is also a religion of peace. However it is not a pacifist religion. But that was in the time of Mohamed.
            I do not recall mentioning anything about "peace" in my post, but since we are on this discussion, I would disagree.

            Comment

            • spitfire
              Banned
              • Aug 2014
              • 868

              #7
              Originally posted by Philosopher View Post
              Spitfire, apart from the "one God" comment, most, if not virtually all religions, do not have a difference in the central idea of a God or gods who are merciful enough for the salvation of the human soul.

              Islam and Christianity have irreconcilable differences. Islam does not have the same aim as Christianity.
              How can you state that Islam and Christianity don't have the same aim and parallel to that state that all religions do not have differences in the central idea?

              Originally posted by Philosopher View Post
              This idea of a "trilogy" is not Christian. The Quran is inconsistent with Christianity.
              Of course, as the idea of first and second part is inconsistent with Judaism.
              But it is the same context in the three religions, very similar between them and very apart from any other religions.


              Originally posted by Philosopher View Post
              Spitfire, your comments seem to suggest you are either deeply ignorant of the Bible, very naive, or your idea of what a Christian is is very flawed.
              Well, if I'm ignorant of the Bible, enlighten me about when we go to heaven. When does this happen?

              Originally posted by Philosopher View Post
              I do not recall mentioning anything about "peace" in my post, but since we are on this discussion, I would disagree.
              Yes. Have you read the Quran? Every chapter is about the merciful God. Peace is apparent for every muslim, this is what he seeks. Salam means peace and it is how the arabs salute. Ahamdulilah is also used for greeting and it means praise God.

              What I find very annoyingly inconsistent is that when religion is used by us, it is a good thing, when it is used by others it is a bad thing.

              Comment

              • Philosopher
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 1003

                #8
                Originally posted by Spitfire
                How can you state that Islam and Christianity don't have the same aim and parallel to that state that all religions do not have differences in the central idea?
                I'm afraid I do not understand. The central doctrines of Islam are incompatible with Christianity. And the Quran is incompatible with Christianity.

                Originally posted by Spitfire
                Of course, as the idea of first and second part is inconsistent with Judaism.
                But it is the same context in the three religions, very similar between them and very apart from any other religions.
                The New Testament is not incompatible or inconsistent with the Old Testament. The New Testament is a fulfillment of the Old Testament. They are both revered by Christians as Scripture. Islam has no connection to the Old or New Testaments and Islam is irreconcilable with Christianity.

                Originally posted by Spitfire
                Well, if I'm ignorant of the Bible, enlighten me about when we go to heaven. When does this happen?
                I'm afraid I do not understand your question.

                Originally posted by Spitfire
                Yes. Have you read the Quran? Every chapter is about the merciful God. Peace is apparent for every muslim, this is what he seeks. Salam means peace and it is how the arabs salute. Ahamdulilah is also used for greeting and it means praise God.
                You are really naïve Spitfire. Islam is a religion of peace...but only to those who fall under the house of Islam. Islam is not a religion of peace to non-Muslims.

                Originally posted by Spitfire
                What I find very annoyingly inconsistent is that when religion is used by us, it is a good thing, when it is used by others it is a bad thing.
                Those who follow or practice Islam have every right to do so. I never said it is a bad thing. I wrote that Islam and Christianity have central differences between them. Islam is, according to the New Testament, a false religion.

                Comment

                • spitfire
                  Banned
                  • Aug 2014
                  • 868

                  #9
                  Philosopher, according to Islam, the Christians and the Jews are people of the Bible.
                  So Muslims connect the Bible to their religion. Christ is a prophet to them, simply not the last in line.

                  The new Testament is incompatible with the Old Testament in the Judaism perspective. Why do you forget that?
                  There is a backwards compatibility, not a forward one. I can't explain it any simpler.

                  Naive is someone who doesn't see that religion is twisted for purposes other than the intentions of the religion.

                  What do you think of this for example?

                  It was the buckle of every german soldier during WWII.

                  Comment

                  • Philosopher
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 1003

                    #10
                    Originally posted by spitfire View Post
                    Philosopher, according to Islam, the Christians and the Jews are people of the Bible.
                    So Muslims connect the Bible to their religion. Christ is a prophet to them, simply not the last in line.
                    Muslims believe the Old and New Covenants are corrupt and untrustworthy. While they acknowledge Jews and Christians as people of the book, it matters little, as Muslims worship a different god and are the enemies of both Jews and Christians.

                    Yes, Christ is a prophet to them, but only a prophet. Islam denies the divinity of Jesus Christ, they deny his death on the cross, they deny his work of atonement on the cross, and they deny his resurrection.

                    Originally posted by Spitfire
                    The new Testament is incompatible with the Old Testament in the Judaism perspective. Why do you forget that?
                    There is a backwards compatibility, not a forward one. I can't explain it any simpler.
                    This is a poor analogy. The New Testament is prophesied in the Old Testament. The Messiah's birth was prophesied in the Old Testament. Jesus' death and resurrection was prophesied in the Old Testament. The birth of the church was prophesied in the Old Testament. The salvation of the gentiles was prophesied in the Old Testament.

                    There is nothing, nothing whatsoever, about a religion that would spring in Arabia 600 years or so after the death of Christ in the Old or New Testaments. Islam is foreign to the Bible, and has no connection to the Bible save for the gross and ignorant distortions and misunderstandings of Mohammed.

                    Originally posted by Spitfire
                    Naive is someone who doesn't see that religion is twisted for purposes other than the intentions of the religion.
                    We are discussing the central tenants of these monotheistic religions and the irreconcilable differences between them.

                    The differences between Islam and Christianity are not the same as the differences between Orthodoxy, Catholicism, and Protestantism. Islam is a different religion, much like Judaism, with a very different set of central tenants.

                    Comment

                    • spitfire
                      Banned
                      • Aug 2014
                      • 868

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Philosopher View Post
                      Muslims believe the Old and New Covenants are corrupt and untrustworthy. While they acknowledge Jews and Christians as people of the book, it matters little, as Muslims worship a different god and are the enemies of both Jews and Christians.
                      They worship a different god? In what perspective? Allah means simply god in arabic.
                      Enemies of the Jews and the Christians? When? At the time of Mohamed. When the lesser Jihad was taking place.
                      The Jews and the Chrisitans are not considered infidels. They are considered believers of God, but mislead believers. Therefore they are respected.

                      Originally posted by Philosopher View Post
                      Yes, Christ is a prophet to them, but only a prophet. Islam denies the divinity of Jesus Christ, they deny his death on the cross, they deny his work of atonement on the cross, and they deny his resurrection.
                      Yes, so? The Christians deny Islam altogether.

                      Originally posted by Philosopher View Post
                      This is a poor analogy. The New Testament is prophesied in the Old Testament. The Messiah's birth was prophesied in the Old Testament. Jesus' death and resurrection was prophesied in the Old Testament. The birth of the church was prophesied in the Old Testament. The salvation of the gentiles was prophesied in the Old Testament.
                      The Quran also is prophesied in the Bible. And one of the prophesies is that God will put His words in to the mouth of this prophet and that he will declare what God commands him.
                      Which is the Quran exactly!
                      All prophesies combined make a Mohamed and his actions also.

                      Originally posted by Philosopher View Post
                      There is nothing, nothing whatsoever, about a religion that would spring in Arabia 600 years or so after the death of Christ in the Old or New Testaments. Islam is foreign to the Bible, and has no connection to the Bible save for the gross and ignorant distortions and misunderstandings of Mohammed.
                      As I said already, Everything forward is regarded foreign. No surprise there.
                      But I see that you are seing this the way most westerners do. That you hold the truth and not somebody else.
                      What do you think of the german belt buckle?

                      Originally posted by Philosopher View Post
                      We are discussing the central tenants of these monotheistic religions and the irreconcilable differences between them.

                      The differences between Islam and Christianity are not the same as the differences between Orthodoxy, Catholicism, and Protestantism. Islam is a different religion, much like Judaism, with a very different set of central tenants.
                      That's the modern view. In the past the arabs saw Christianity as a heresy of what they believe.
                      And really, the central idea is exactly the same.
                      All three religions are of Abrahamic descent and they speak about the same thing.

                      Even now, if you ask a christian certain things, he won't know the answer. For example, when do we go to paradise exactly. Is it right after we die?

                      Comment

                      • George S.
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 10116

                        #12
                        no not when the muslims regards the west as infidels and wants to chop their heads off.Whilst islam means peace in practice it is off with the infidels heads.THere is real hatred of christianity and the west.
                        "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                        GOTSE DELCEV

                        Comment

                        • spitfire
                          Banned
                          • Aug 2014
                          • 868

                          #13
                          Logic dictates: If more than a billion and a half muslisms wanted to chop the heads of the infidels (though they are not considered infidels according to Islam) then there would be no other around but the muslims.

                          Clearly a depiction of terror, usual for the always fearing of their shadow westerners.

                          Comment

                          • George S.
                            Senior Member
                            • Aug 2009
                            • 10116

                            #14
                            YES THE ISLAM THAT YOU CALL TEROR IS NOT REALLY ISLAM BUT A VARIANT.They are hell bent on just killing people they think it's a just cause.
                            "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                            GOTSE DELCEV

                            Comment

                            • spitfire
                              Banned
                              • Aug 2014
                              • 868

                              #15
                              Originally posted by George S. View Post
                              YES THE ISLAM THAT YOU CALL TEROR IS NOT REALLY ISLAM BUT A VARIANT.They are hell bent on just killing people they think it's a just cause.
                              It's not a variant, it's a distortion.

                              Comment

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