The Thracian Dialects in the South Slavic Continuum

[Soldier of Macedon]

Bulgarian linguists are too often unsystematic in their classifications, hence the 'diversity'. What they call "Thracian" is those speeches of Părvomaj, Haskovo, Harmanli, Svilengrad, Topolovgrad and Elhovo. By this point, they are certainly Bulgarian. Further back though, the Ser-Nevrokop area is transitional but the Male�evo-Pirin area is categorically Macedonian.

If Male�evo-Pirin are Macedonian, then based on the below maps wouldn't that mean that the dialects around the Bulgarian capital and even further north are also categorically Macedonian?

Also, if the Ser-Nevrokop dialects are transitional, then how far east does that transitional area travel before they become categorically Bulgarian? Smoljan? Further east?

[Po-drum]

So it seems like there was some regularization (very typical of Macedonian). My guess would be that -ос developed by analogy of -от/-он, while the same happened with -ов in other dialects. Naturally, we wouldn't except -ос and -ов in the same dialect.

We still do find *sĭ, just not in the function of a definite article: денес < *dĭnĭ + *sĭ.

Do you think there could be some connection with the dialect word "c'j"-"навистина" which is very often used by speakers of Kukush dialect. I haven't heard this word in no other dialect.

If Maleševo-Pirin are Macedonian, then based on the below maps wouldn't that mean that the dialects around the Bulgarian capital and even further north are also categorically Macedonian?

Infact, prior to the 70's of XIX c. very often Samokov, Dupnitsa, Sofia, Kyustendil were called "macedonian regions".
There should be just slight differences between the speech of this regions and Maleshevo-Pirin dialect area before the formation of bulgarian state and wide use of bulgarian literary language based on north-eastern bulgarian dialects.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Po-drum, when you spent some time in Bulgaria did you go to Sofia and hear people speaking their dialect? If so, what did you think?

[Дени]

If Maleševo-Pirin are Macedonian, then based on the below maps wouldn't that mean that the dialects around the Bulgarian capital and even further north are also categorically Macedonian?

Bare in mind, there are two main approximate midpoints: one in the Maleševo region and the other in Pirin region. Those Bulgarian dialects neighboring the former (Dupnica, Kjustendil) are quite similar to it, but they abruptly end where the so-called 'Torlak' dialects begin, and by Samokov on the other side there's an immediately noticeable difference (i.e. both yers have reduced to the same vowel).

Also, if the Ser-Nevrokop dialects are transitional, then how far east does that transitional area travel before they become categorically Bulgarian? Smoljan? Further east?

The Nevrokop area is already fairly outlying in my opinion.

Do you think there could be some connection with the dialect word "c'j"-"навистина" which is very often used by speakers of Kukush dialect. I haven't heard this word in no other dialect.

Maybe. How do you say "day" in the Kukuš dialect? I ask because the -ј ending could be analogous to that in standard тој (< *tŭ + *jĭ). So we could expect *sĭ + *jĭ to give с`ј if *dĭnĭ is (*)д`н.

[Po-drum]

Po-drum, when you spent some time in Bulgaria did you go to Sofia and hear people speaking their dialect? If so, what did you think?

Mhm....
Dialect speech is object of despice in bulgarian socety, it's very hard to find somebody in Sofia (the city) who would speek in his dialect. They are all trying to sound more literary. From what I have heard mostly by some old peoples living in villages it's close to Maleshevo-Pirin dialect (all my grandparents were speaking that dialect).
There's intention for imposing of some forms of Sofia dialect over the literary language.

I have found one very useful map for borders between dialect speeches in macedonian-bulgarian dialect continuum. I guess it's made by some bulgarian, and is based on three main differences: ја,јас/аз; он/тој; е/ја.

Bare in mind, there are two main approximate midpoints: one in the Maleševo region and the other in Pirin region. Those Bulgarian dialects neighboring the former (Dupnica, Kjustendil) are quite similar to it, but they abruptly end where the so-called 'Torlak' dialects begin, and by Samokov on the other side there's an immediately noticeable difference (i.e. both yers have reduced to the same vowel).

According to Stojko Stojkov, Българска диалектология, in Samokov speech there is also use of "y" (мука, сушта).

He gives this features as common for the so called south-western group:
1- "a" in the place of "ѫ, ъ, ь" (with some exceptions in eastern regions).
2- "шт", "жд" (but different forms for future tense in different regions: ште, ше, че, ќе, ќу).
3- preserved old umlaut/mutation of "o" in "e" when after "ж, ч, ш, ј" (н�ше, кош�ве, нож�ве, м�jе, тв�jе).
4- use of "o" as an article form for masculine (гърб�, нос�, м�сто, ст�ло) with exception of botevgrad and pirdop speaches where it's "a".
5- use of suffix -"n" for past passive participles (бѝен (бит), обỳен, пѝен (пит), скрѝен (скрит), трѝен (трит), чỳен (чут)..).
6- suffix "чки" for adjectives instead of "шки" (ајдỳчки (хајдушки), војнѝчки, јун�чки, з�јечки, ков�чки, р�чечки (рачешки), ст�речки, чов�чки..).

This is interesting example of differencies between botevgrad and elinpelin (close to Sofia) speaches:

�ган �г’ин

�дел иш�л

той он
крак ног�
�ра лỳге
вѝкам �кам

(The last ones are possibly connected: охкам, офкам, ов(i)кам??)
I have made with bold the forms wich are used in most southern points (around Strumica-Petrich) of this "group" of dialects.

Maybe. How do you say "day" in the Kukuš dialect? I ask because the -ј ending could be analogous to that in standard тој (< *tŭ + *jĭ). So we could expect *sĭ + *jĭ to give с`ј if *dĭnĭ is (*)д`н.

I think it's "ден" but it may be "дин"-"вадин" ((о)вај ден). Тhere is strong reduction of vowels in this speach (урач, месиц, пулвинта, адин), and the form for 3rd, singular of "to be" is "ej/ај" but also "ъj" in Kufalovo.
They use "ъ" for old "ѫ" (път, ръка, зъп, къшта, мъка), and "сът, съта, съто" (Gevgelija, Voden, Kukush).

[Soldier of Macedon]

Bare in mind, there are two main approximate midpoints: one in the Maleševo region and the other in Pirin region. Those Bulgarian dialects neighboring the former (Dupnica, Kjustendil) are quite similar to it, but they abruptly end where the so-called 'Torlak' dialects begin, and by Samokov on the other side there's an immediately noticeable difference (i.e. both yers have reduced to the same vowel).

So would the native dialect of Sofia be closer to Macedonian or Bulgarian?

The Nevrokop area is already fairly outlying in my opinion.

That would mean that the some of the Thracian dialects form their own category, wouldn't it?

[Дени]

So would the native dialect of Sofia be closer to Macedonian or Bulgarian?

Closer to Standard Macedonian than to Standard Bulgarian.

That would mean that the some of the Thracian dialects form their own category, wouldn't it?

In Macedonian linguists' usage there's наречје, дијалект and говор. For example, there's the Western наречје, and within its central group there's the Prilep-Bitola дијалект and others. Within the Prilep-Bitola дијалект, there's the Bitola говор, Lerin говор, etc. Bulgarian "linguists" (yep, scare quotes) don't use these terms with any consistency. If we were to use Macedonian terminology, we could speak of a Thracian дијалект and Părvomaj говор within it. So yes, those говори already group together in the same дијалект.

[Дени]

ADELE - Someone like you (на малешевски начин) - YouTube

[Soldier of Macedon]

Closer to Standard Macedonian than to Standard Bulgarian.

Were it not for Russian influence in the 19th century there would probably be more dialects in today's Bulgaria which would sound closer to Macedonian.

In Macedonian linguists' usage there's наречје, дијалект and говор. For example, there's the Western наречје, and within its central group there's the Prilep-Bitola дијалект and others. Within the Prilep-Bitola дијалект, there's the Bitola говор, Lerin говор, etc. Bulgarian "linguists" (yep, scare quotes) don't use these terms with any consistency. If we were to use Macedonian terminology, we could speak of a Thracian дијалект and Părvomaj говор within it. So yes, those говори already group together in the same дијалект.

Is the 'наречје' to which that Thracian 'дијалект' belong to (being intermediate) closer to a Macedonian or Bulgarian 'наречје'?

[Дени]

Were it not for Russian influence in the 19th century there would probably be more dialects in today's Bulgaria which would sound closer to Macedonian.

I think that has more to do with dialect leveling more than anything else.

Is the 'наречје' to which that Thracian 'дијалект' belong to (being intermediate) closer to a Macedonian or Bulgarian 'наречје'?

It 'blends' into and out from them from both sides. We are, after all, speaking about a dialect continuum.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I think that has more to do with dialect leveling more than anything else.

I don't disagree, but the impact of Russian influence is also significant.

It 'blends' into and out from them from both sides. We are, after all, speaking about a dialect continuum.

Based on its distinguished features, can't it classify as its own Thracian наречје?