Vardar or Axios? The great river of Macedonia

[Soldier of Macedon]

During antiquity, the name of the river was recorded as 'Axios'. Although it appears to look like a Greek word, it may in fact be a Thracian word which meant 'black'. The Macedonian river 'Crna Reka' (originally known as 'Erigon', another Thracian word meaning 'black'), although not the same as the 'Vardar', is nevertheless one of its tributaries. There is another river which was known as 'Axios' and located in Romania, and this river is now known as 'Cernavoda'.

A suggested origin for 'Axios' is PIE η-ks(e)y-no, which is supposed to mean 'dark' or 'black', and is cognate with Avestan 'Axsaena'. This could then be connected to PIE n.-sk(e)i, which is supposed to mean 'dark-coloured', and is cognate with Avestan 'Axšaēna' and Thracian 'Axios' (which would mean 'not-shining').

A suggested origin for 'Vardar' (which also may be Thracian) is PIE (s)wordo-wori-, which is supposed to mean 'black water', and is cognate with German 'Schwarz'.

I would also like to find out when exactly the river has been referred to as 'Vardar', as I have read on some websites that it may have been used earlier than once thought. This is only a summary after a brief search on the net, if anybody has anything more to add, please do so, it would be good to corroborate the above.

[Niko777]

What do you think of the Bistrica river in Aegean Macedonia? It is just as important as the Vardar, in antiquity it was called the Aliakmon.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Not sure mate, 'Haliacmon' is a name based on a river god from antiquity, like many other words from this period, it could be non-Greek, but can't confirm as of yet. The river 'Peneus' which seperates Macedonia and Thessaly also appears to fall under the same category, being named after a river god.

[Mygdon]

all i know is that "arda" means river in thracian. telling from the Thracian words list at wikipedia.

[Struja]

During antiquity, the name of the river was recorded as 'Axios'. .

The question has to be asked! when was it 1st record and by whom!

What I found was most if not all the rivers in the region (in antiquity) were referred to some godly name. why call your rivers after a god?

Its name Axios is mentioned by Homer in both accounts (Il. 21.141, Il. 2.849) as the home of the Paeonians, allies of Troy.

Peleus bearing his far-shadowing spear leapt, eager to slay him, [140] upon Asteropaeus, son of Pelegon, that was begotten of wide-flowing Axius and Periboea, eldest of the daughters of Acessamenus; for with her lay the deep-eddying River. Upon him rushed Achilles, and Asteropaeus [145] stood forth from the river to face him, holding two spears; and courage was set in his heart by Xanthus, being wroth because of the youths slain in battle, of whom Achilles was making havoc along the stream and had no pity.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Hom.%20Il.%2021.141&lang=original

But Pyraechmes led the Paeonians, with curved bows, from afar, out of Amydon from the wide-flowing Axius— [850] Axius the water whereof floweth the fairest over the face of the earth. And the Paphlagonians did Pylaemenes of the shaggy1 heart lead from the land of the Eneti,

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Hom.%20Il.%202.849&lang=original

Axius (Greek: Ἀξιός) is a Paeonian river god, the son of Oceanus and Tethys. He was the father of Pelagon, by Periboea, daughter of Acessamenus. His domain is the river Axius, or Vardar, in Macedonia (region).

The true meaning of Axios is "he is worthy/Honorable" or in other words the Paeonians people are worthy/Honorable allies of Troy.

its good to be back again!

[Struja]

.I would also like to find out when exactly the river has been referred to as 'Vardar', as I have read on some websites that it may have been used earlier than once thought. This is only a summary after a brief search on the net, if anybody has anything more to add, please do so, it would be good to corroborate the above.

What I could find is crossing reference between Vardar and the Dardari in the period of 3rd or 4th century BC. We have to look at Roman records with regards to the ancient settlement of Skupi which became the main city of the Dardania area 164 BC. Here will find our answers.

well, Dardari people are of Thracian stock!

[Soldier of Macedon]

What I could find is crossing reference between Vardar and the Dardari in the period of 3rd or 4th century BC. We have to look at Roman records with regards to the ancient settlement of Skupi which became the main city of the Dardania area 164 BC. Here will find our answers.

Welcome back mate. With regard to the above, are you talking about the Dardanians when you say Dardari or another tribe altogether? Which sources from the 3rd and 4th centuries BC mention Vardar?

all i know is that "arda" means river in thracian. telling from the Thracian words list at wikipedia.

http://www.kroraina.com/thrac_lang/thrac_4a2.html

*Urda - a place name, reconstructed from the Apollo epithet Urdenos (in an inscription from the Pərvomaj district). Related Baltic names are: the Lith. river names Ůrd-upis, Urdenŕ, the Zhemait. place name Urdishki, the Latv. river name Urdava, which are derivatives from a basis, contained in the Lith. urdulỹs ‘a (mountain) stream; pool’, the Latv. urdaviņa ‘a stream’. Similar is probably also the origin of the river names Urda, today l’Ourde in France, and Urft (Urd-efa in 1075 AD) in Germany (probably Celtic in origin).

http://www.kroraina.com/thrac_lang/thrac_4a1.html

Artánēs (Hdt.) - a southern tributary of Danube, in the region of the Jantra river. Compare to the Old-Ind. árdati ‘to flow’, the Greek ardō ‘to bedew’, the Lith. river name Ardijŕ. The same is also the origin of the river name Artánēs in Bythinia (Asia Minor).

Given that this name is recorded in a Greek source, the initial (v) may have been omitted just like with the tribal name (v)eneti or the placename (v)edessa. Here are some more examples:

http://www.kroraina.com/thrac_lang/thrac_4a1.html

Egerica (in a guide-book) - a village in western Thracia, today - Leshta-han near Ihtiman. Egerica is probably a Grecized from *Egerikē, an adjective from a local name, which probably sounded as *Vegera. The latter has exact counterparts in the Baltics: the Lith. river name Veger, the Zhemait. (XVI-th c.) Vegera (a river), the Latv. river name Vedzere = ve-dzere from the IE *egera, a derivative from the IE stem *eg - ‘damp, wet’ in the Dutch wak ‘damp’, the Engl. wake. The initial V- disappeared under Greek influence.

Ereta (Plin.) - town to the south of Odessos (Varna), at the mouth of Panissos (today - Kamchija). The name is derived form the initial *Vereta, the initial V- having disappeared under Greek influence. The reconstructed form is identical to the Lithuanian river name Veretŕ, which is derived from the IE stem *er in the Lith. vírti (vérdu, viriau) ‘to boil, to bubble’, the Old-Bulg. vьreti, vьria ‘to boil’. The village obviously got its name from a spring.