Macedonia and Bulgaria: Political Relations

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  • Amphipolis
    Banned
    • Aug 2014
    • 1328

    Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
    "A descendant of Mirka Ginova, famous socialist fighter during World War Two who was brutally murdered by Greek monarchist forces in 1946, angrily dismissed the comments Zoran Zaev made to the BGNES news site today.
    Somebody please reel in this fool. He is so illiterate, he shouldn’t be allowed to say anything beyond “good day” and “goodbye” – says Biljana Ginova"
    I thought Ginova doesn't have descendants.

    Comment

    • Carlin
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2011
      • 3332

      Former Foreign Minister Ilinka Mitreva calls on Zaev to resign

      URL:
      Former Foreign Affairs Minister and SDSM party official Ilinka Mitreva joined calls to have Zoran Zaev removed from the helm...


      Former Foreign Affairs Minister and SDSM party official Ilinka Mitreva joined calls to have Zoran Zaev removed from the helm of the party and the country after his scandalos acceptance of all Bulgarian positions in the dispute over national identity and history. Mitreva called on the SDSM party to hold a congress, where it will remove Zaev.

      Euro-integrations were and remain our constant goal to which we strive, but not at the price the Prime Minister is willing to pay. It is time for Zaev to face the court of public opinion. There is on room for him to explain his positions or maneuver, there is no time to amnesty him. There is only time to hold a party congress. As a former political official and as a citizen it is my right and obligation to stand in support of national pride, Mitreva said.

      Zaev is facing a major revolt in the party, with two major factions developing – one supportive of him and the other calling for his ouster.

      Comment

      • Carlin
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2011
        • 3332

        North Macedonia PM’s Remarks About History Hit a Nerve

        Sinisa Jakov Marusic

        Skopje BIRN November 26, 202013:03

        North Macedonia's Prime Minister Zoran Zaev has ruffled feathers at home by suggesting he no longer viewed Bulgaria as a “fascist occupying force” during World War II – saying it's high time the two neighbours moved on from their old disputes.

        URL:
        North Macedonia's Prime Minister Zoran Zaev has ruffled feathers at home by suggesting he no longer viewed Bulgaria as a “fascist occupying force” during World War II – saying it's high time the two neighbours moved on from their old disputes.


        An interview that North Macedonia’s Prime Minister Zoran Zaev gave Bulgarian news agency BGNES, published on Wedensday – in which he suggested that Bulgaria had not been occupying force in today’s North Macedonia during World War II, has hit raw nerve in his own country.

        His remarks have drawn criticism from historians, public figures, as well as politicians, even from his own ruling Social Democratic Party, accusing him of historical revisionism. The opposition called for protests.

        He was condemned by a member of the Macedonian team in the joint North Macedonia-Bulgaria history commission, Ljubica Spaskovska.

        “As member of the Macedonian part of the commission, I personally distance myself and condemn the latest remarks of the PM,” she said, adding: “I appeal to politicians to withhold themselves from claims and comments on subjects with which they are not acquainted, and are not in their domain,” Spaskovska wrote on Facebook on Wednesday.

        She was soon joined by her colleague on the same commission, Ognen Vangelov, who also distanced himself from the PM’s statements.

        In the interview, Zaev talked about his country’s efforts to persuade Bulgaria to lift its blockade on the start of North Macedonia’s EU membership talks.

        Turning to contentious historical isurs, he said that “Bulgaria is not a fascist country. Bulgaria is our friend. The new generations don’t know the entirety of this reality that must unite us,” adding that former Yugoslavia, of which Macedonia had been part, had kept Macedonians and Bulgarians from being closer.

        He later said that his government had removed some plaques on historical wartime monuments that contained the words “Bulgarian fascist occupation,” which Bulgaria deems highly offensive.

        “We already replaced 20 plaques on which it was written, ‘Bulgarian Fascist occupier’. This is not true – Bulgaria is not a fascist country; it is our friend,” Zaev said.

        Historians in North Macedonia objected to these words. In 1941, the then Kingdom of Bulgaria joined the Axis powers, and as such was given much of today’s North Macedonia, which it had long claimed as Bulgarian territory.

        “In the whole of Western historiography, as well as in the domain of public history, the term ‘occupation’ is commonly accepted. The 1947 peace accord [that Bulgaria] signed with the Allied forces, including with Macedonia, as part of Yugoslavia, speaks enough about the role of Bulgaria in World War II,” Spasovska commented.

        As the Soviet Red Army got close to its borders, in September 9, 1944, Bulgaria switched sides and joined the Allies. Former communist Bulgaria celebrated the day as the People’s Uprising of September 9.

        Zaev on Thursday said he understood the angry reaction to his interview, but insisted that he had a responsibility to build friendship, and added that Bulgaria could not simply be viewed as a former fascist state.

        “I understand these reactions, but leaders should lead their countries forward and make the first steps … The anti-fascist fight is part of my own family, too … but that is the historical past and should not limit us from charting our European future,” Zaev said.

        In November 17, the EU Council of Ministers failed to adopt a negotiating framework for North Macedonia which would allow the start of its accession talks because of objections from neighbour Bulgaria.

        Bulgaria has insisted on the importance of resolving a history dispute with North Macedonia, insisting that it needs to change its views on some shared parts of history but also on some aspects that tackle the Macedonian identity.

        Efforts by both sides, as well as by the German EU presidency, are under way to ensure a breakthrough so that the country’s EU path can be unblocked.

        But Zaev has come under fire for his statements from some of his own party colleagues, too.

        The Social Democrat mayor of the town of Kumanovo, Maksim Dimitrievski, on Thursday said that “attempts to distort the facts” belonged to the past.

        “Macedonia was occupied and split in the WW2 by Fascist Germany, Bulgaria and Italy. The Macedonian people and the Partisans rose and in coalition with anti-fascists, won against the occupying forces … During that war, Kumanovo suffered 800 Partisan victims and double that in civilian casualties,” Dimitrievski recalled.

        Renowned theatre director Vladimir MIlcin asked whether, by replacing historical plaques, Zaev had “promoted himself into a monarch?”

        “Does Zaev know how many plaques and monuments he will need to replace yet? How many books he will need to burn? How many Partisan graves will he need to plough in order to please [Bulgarian PM Boyko] Borrissov and his company? He will need to erase our memory too, but that will be a bit harder!” Milcin commented on Facebook.

        Stating that Zaev’s remarks “had offended all Macedonians”, the opposition right-wing VMRO DPMNE party leader Hristijan Mickoski has called for protests in Skopje.

        Comment

        • Carlin
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2011
          • 3332

          Дали како резултат на некаква пропагандна операција на соодветните служби или како обичен реваншизам на обични граѓани или политички субјекти една недела откако гореше бугарското знаме на непозната локација, запалени се и македонско и српско знаме по што се објавени на социјалните мрежи. Според видеото непознати лица кои вопшто не се во кадарот ги палат […]


          Bulgarians burn Macedonian and Serbian flags

          Comment

          • Stojacanec
            Member
            • Dec 2009
            • 809

            Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
            Somebody please reel in this fool. He is so illiterate, he shouldn’t be allowed to say anything beyond “good day” and “goodbye” – says Biljana Ginova"
            Very well said by Biljana.

            Zaev has an agenda and its all about him rather than the country he governs.

            He is a danger to all things Macedonian.

            Comment

            • Carlin
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2011
              • 3332

              Pendarovski, Zaev and Sekerinska receive a letter from the Army: Patience is running thin…



              MINAReport managed to get their hands on excerpts of a letter sent by anonymous ARM officials to Macedonia’s criminal traitors Stevo Pendarovski, Radmila Sekerinska and Zoran Zaev. In it, Army officials warn the criminal Government junta to immediately cease with the selloff of Macedonia’s history, identity and language, asking whether the “Church and territory are next to go?”.

              The anonymous army officials also ask for what purpose has the army being systematically downgraded from a legitimate fighting force with Airforce to a lightly armed infantry with no Airforce!

              The letter warns Macedonia’s quisling trio (Pendarovski, Sekerinska, Zaev) that while they will certainly go, the Army and Macedonian people are here to stay.

              See link for excerpts of the letter.

              Comment

              • VMRO
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 1462

                Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
                Pendarovski, Zaev and Sekerinska receive a letter from the Army: Patience is running thin…



                MINAReport managed to get their hands on excerpts of a letter sent by anonymous ARM officials to Macedonia’s criminal traitors Stevo Pendarovski, Radmila Sekerinska and Zoran Zaev. In it, Army officials warn the criminal Government junta to immediately cease with the selloff of Macedonia’s history, identity and language, asking whether the “Church and territory are next to go?”.

                The anonymous army officials also ask for what purpose has the army being systematically downgraded from a legitimate fighting force with Airforce to a lightly armed infantry with no Airforce!

                The letter warns Macedonia’s quisling trio (Pendarovski, Sekerinska, Zaev) that while they will certainly go, the Army and Macedonian people are here to stay.

                See link for excerpts of the letter.
                Minareport neets to be taken with a grain of salt.
                Verata vo Mislite, VMRO vo dushata, Makedonia vo Srceto.

                Vnatreshna Makedonska Revolucionerna Organizacija.

                Comment

                • Liberator of Makedonija
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2014
                  • 1595

                  Where was the military two years ago?
                  I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                  Comment

                  • Risto the Great
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 15658

                    Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
                    Where was the military two years ago?
                    Doing the same thing. Just being anonymous and moaning a little.
                    Risto the Great
                    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                    Comment

                    • Gocka
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2012
                      • 2306

                      Originally posted by VMRO View Post
                      Minareport neets to be taken with a grain of salt.
                      That was my thought exactly. It's more than likely fake.

                      Comment

                      • Carlin
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2011
                        • 3332

                        What's Buchkovski up to



                        Професоре Бучковски, Ви го одземам правото да преговарате со Бугарија во мое име и во име на мојот народ!

                        Непријатно и дури и тажно е да се узнае дека нашиот Специјален пратеник во преговорите со Бугарија етногенезата на својата нација ја објаснува како чин на создавање во 1944 година, годината кога на заседанието на АСНОМ е создадена македонската држава, а не нацијата.

                        URL:
                        Last edited by Carlin; 12-02-2020, 08:28 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Carlin
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2011
                          • 3332

                          Голема кавга во Комисијата за историски прашања - главниот проблем е придавката македонски. Дводневната средба на македонско бугарските историчари во која сите се крстеа на решение, заврши како тотално фијаско со префрлувања и одрекувања за време на ...



                          ФИЈАСКО ВО РАЗГОВОРИТЕ МЕЃУ ИСТОРИСКИТЕ КОМИСИИ НА МАКЕДОНИЈА И БУГАРИЈА

                          Голема кавга во Комисијата за историски прашања - главниот проблем е придавката македонски. Дводневната средба на македонско бугарските историчари во која сите се крстеа на решение, заврши како тотално фијаско со префрлувања и одрекувања за време на прес конференцијата меѓу двајцата копретседатели Ангел Димитров и Драги Ѓоргиев. Единственото за коешто се согласија и двајцата е дека има нула напредок.

                          Проблемите продолжиле и во делот на историските личности. Ѓоргиев обвини дека Димитров сака да ги наметне само бугарските тези. Настрада можниот компромис за Гоце Делчев, но се проблематиризаше и цар Самуил во однос како биде интерпретирана неговата улога во учебниците.

                          Димитров повторно на сцена ја врати Коминтрерната иако не негираше сегашно постоење на македонската нација.

                          Впечаток е дека денешната средба на некој начин беше минирана. И двете страни настапија со тврди ставови кои веќе ги имаа. Оптимистична е само најавата дека следната недела Комисијата пак ќе се состане онлајн.

                          Станува се поизвесно дека европската врата за Македонија нема да се отвори овој декември.

                          Comment

                          • Gocka
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2012
                            • 2306

                            Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
                            https://time.mk/c/6fdc6bd6d0/fijasko...-bugarija.html


                            ФИЈАСКО ВО РАЗГОВОРИТЕ МЕЃУ ИСТОРИСКИТЕ КОМИСИИ НА МАКЕДОНИЈА И БУГАРИЈА

                            Голема кавга во Комисијата за историски прашања - главниот проблем е придавката македонски. Дводневната средба на македонско бугарските историчари во која сите се крстеа на решение, заврши како тотално фијаско со префрлувања и одрекувања за време на прес конференцијата меѓу двајцата копретседатели Ангел Димитров и Драги Ѓоргиев. Единственото за коешто се согласија и двајцата е дека има нула напредок.

                            Проблемите продолжиле и во делот на историските личности. Ѓоргиев обвини дека Димитров сака да ги наметне само бугарските тези. Настрада можниот компромис за Гоце Делчев, но се проблематиризаше и цар Самуил во однос како биде интерпретирана неговата улога во учебниците.

                            Димитров повторно на сцена ја врати Коминтрерната иако не негираше сегашно постоење на македонската нација.

                            Впечаток е дека денешната средба на некој начин беше минирана. И двете страни настапија со тврди ставови кои веќе ги имаа. Оптимистична е само најавата дека следната недела Комисијата пак ќе се состане онлајн.

                            Станува се поизвесно дека европската врата за Македонија нема да се отвори овој декември.
                            These kinds of articles are so pointless I dont know why anyone would waste the time to write or read them. Almost as pointless as this exercise.

                            Bulgarians claim we are Bulgarians and that there is no such thing as a Macedonian identity, language, or culture. So either we accept that or we don't. I don't understand why anyone on either side is wasting time pretending like there is something to debate or a compromise to be made. Delving into ww2 or specific historical figures is again a waste of time.

                            With Greece as bad as it was they had some wiggle room to bullshit about how we made a compromise. With Bulgaria there is no wiggle room. You can't admit all your founding revolutionaries believed they were of another nation and we're fighting for another nation and still claim they somehow founded your nation. You can't admit the Macedonian language is actually Bulgarian and pretend that you still have a uniqe language. You can't admit that until 70 years ago we were all Bulgarians and pretend that Macedonians somehow still exist. So my grandfather was Bulgarian but now I'm Macedonian?

                            Can't we just skip to the fake referendum and raise the ugly Bulgarian flag already. Skip the faux outrage and limp protests while your at it too.

                            Comment

                            • Carlin
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2011
                              • 3332

                              Zaev lashes out at Bulgaria, and the opposition, after the failure of his crucial EU policy



                              Prime Minister Zoran Zaev said that Bulgaria violated the treaty he signed with Boyko Borisov in 2017, when it vetoed Macedonia’s EU accession. It’s a second harshly worded comment from Zaev aimed at Bulgaria, after the press release yesterday in which he accused Bulgaria of making an irresponsible strategic mistake with its veto.

                              Comment

                              • Risto the Great
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 15658

                                Zaev is like that bipolar former girlfriend you have been trying to distance yourself from.
                                Risto the Great
                                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                                Comment

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