Vasil Iljov and the Inscriptions in Macedonia

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  • Dimko-piperkata
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 1876

    #91
    Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
    Znaci tocno na taa godina pred 102010 godini se pisalo, taka? Nemoi bre, ne postoi nikakvo pismo pred 5-6,000 godini. Ako sum gresen, pokazimi, ama ne so ovie ckrtainci na kamenja, kako da znaele takva azbuka vo toa vreme.

    Dimko, Neanderthals lived during that time. Did you know that?
    слушај ваму...васил иљов не е тој кој ги датираше артефактике, тие се датирани од странци како франзуските научници...васил е ама тој човек, кој успеал да ги дешифрират "цртниците"...васил е на тој зегмент гениајалец, albert einstein за дешифрирање...тој се занимават со оваа тематика преку 40 години...

    кажими кога ќе одиш друг пат за македониа, па ќе организирам средба меѓу тебе, васил иљов, ташко белчев и ако сакаш со ангелина маркус.
    1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum...
    2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum...

    Comment

    • Soldier of Macedon
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 13670

      #92
      I ako ne e toi sho go datiral, isto taka toi e sho veli deka crtive na kamenjata pisat nesto - nesto sho ne bilo mozno vo toa vreme. Ako mois da dokazis inaku, pa aj dokazi.

      Toa sho go kaza za vasil i einstein, ne e vredno za odgovor. Jas nemam nikakov problem da se sretnam so lugjevo, ama zosto mene samo da mi kazat a ne na celio svet?
      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

      Comment

      • indigen
        Senior Member
        • May 2009
        • 1558

        #93
        Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View Post
        No one is questioning his political beliefs.
        As you did no clearly qualify your disagreement with Iljov when you said "I don't agree with Iljov or his work", I took it to mean literally ALL HIS WORK. Thus I apologise if I read you wrong but please be more clear in future and don't over-dramatise his importance or his official status. We need more patriots with some public profile to stand up for Macedonian national interests as a priority and we should quibble less about issues that are not so important at this time.

        What is in question are his theories that went from a 4000 year old Macedonian writing to 102,000 years old in the decade we've been posting his claims. Iljov may be the most ardent patriot for all I know but it does not excuse the lack of validity or substance behind his work.
        I don't have an issue with criticism of his theories but just the way you do it. There is no need to denigrate him in the way that you have done because he has made an excellent contribution to the Macedonian cause and deserves some respect and appreciation for it, IMHO.

        Maybe you or someone else can provide the peer reviewed journals he's appeared in where other scientists and people in other fields conclude his work has substance?
        I don't know how much these peers will objectively review his work when the international community is set on eliminating our very own identity and heritage for political reasons. I recall Ilija Chashule explaining to a few Macedonians (around 1994/5) how he was perceived as being a lunatic when he presented his research papers on Paleo-Balkan linguistics to his peers at some academic conference he attended and can only think an even worse reception would apply to Iljov. Also, when even Russian academics such as Genadij Stanistavlovich Grinevich have not received any positive reviews from peers in western circles, I should think that it would be delusional to expect such for mere Macedonians such as Vasil Iljov.

        Comment

        • TrueMacedonian
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2009
          • 3810

          #94
          Originally posted by indigen View Post
          As you did no clearly qualify your disagreement with Iljov when you said "I don't agree with Iljov or his work", I took it to mean literally ALL HIS WORK. Thus I apologise if I read you wrong but please be more clear in future and don't over-dramatise his importance or his official status. We need more patriots with some public profile to stand up for Macedonian national interests as a priority and we should quibble less about issues that are not so important at this time.


          I don't have an issue with criticism of his theories but just the way you do it. There is no need to denigrate him in the way that you have done because he has made an excellent contribution to the Macedonian cause and deserves some respect and appreciation for it, IMHO.


          I don't know how much these peers will objectively review his work when the international community is set on eliminating our very own identity and heritage for political reasons. I recall Ilija Chashule explaining to a few Macedonians (around 1994/5) how he was perceived as being a lunatic when he presented his research papers on Paleo-Balkan linguistics to his peers at some academic conference he attended and can only think an even worse reception would apply to Iljov. Also, when even Russian academics such as Genadij Stanistavlovich Grinevich have not received any positive reviews from peers in western circles, I should think that it would be delusional to expect such for mere Macedonians such as Vasil Iljov.
          Fair enough.
          Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

          Comment

          • indigen
            Senior Member
            • May 2009
            • 1558

            #95
            Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
            Then perhaps next time you'd be mindful not to comment on every damn clip you haven't even watched.
            Look, I have read his earlier work and I am open to its validity or not and I did download his earlier 77k (or the like) years old writing clip and I assume it will not be much different. I am not buying into his findings one way or the other and would lean on the being sceptical of such claims.

            Where has anybody disregarded his other contributions, whatever they are?
            I actually did not criticise you (in your original post), so I do not see a need to get into an argument over nothing.

            What upsets me is that people are going around posing as if they know what they're on about, making all sorts of wild claims like 77,000 year old inscriptions that write 'Macedonia', yet when the simple questions are put forth, we have people like yourself and Dimko jumping in to their defence. What Iljov is suggesting, especially without a shred of support, is counter-productive.
            There are plenty of people making various claims about Macedonian ethnogenisis with only political bias for justification but they don't get the scrutiny, or people may even jump to their defence, that Iljov gets. Iljov's official status and the "damage" his views may have on Macedonians in comparison to the damage inflicted on ALL (ethnic) Macedonian schoolchildren via the education curricula of the state education system are incomparable. I should think we need to get some priorities right in our struggle for what is right for the Macedonian Cause.


            Can you explain how that is hypocritical? If anything, it is showing a measure of consistency.
            In an ideological way, yes but when that ideology is obviously very flawed, it becomes the pot calling someone else black, IMO.

            Personally, I wouldn't downplay the indigenous character of Macedonians, but there is no way I would agree with an extreme like Iljov's suggestion.
            I don't have many issues with your take on Macedonian indigenity, which is almost identical to mine, minus some reservation on your part about certain terminology, e.g. what constitutes a "direct" descendant and nothing I wrote was aimed at you (except the post about cave writing and its age).

            Am I hypocritical, or am I being logical?
            I did not have an issue with what you raised (in your original post) and it seemed logical to me.

            Are you being logical, or are you allowing your logic to be clouded by patriotism?
            Maybe a bit of both! As I see it, there are too few patriots to allow them to be sacrificed at the altar of political correctness (PC). Very few people in Mk with a public profile took a strong stand in opposition to the "Ramkoven dogovor" in 2001! Vasil Iljov, Todor Petrov, Slavko Mangovski, Gjorgijia Atanasovski, Blazhe Ristovski and Gjorgji Marjanovikj are among the few that did and I don't like seeing them denigrated or subjectively attacked in an unwarranted manner. It is from the ranks of these same few public profile individuals that we again see resistance being waged in opposition to the latest anti-Macedonian deconstruction agendas of external and internal enemies.
            Last edited by indigen; 10-29-2010, 06:40 PM.

            Comment

            • Bratot
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 2855

              #96
              Originally posted by indigen View Post
              I don't know how much these peers will objectively review his work when the international community is set on eliminating our very own identity and heritage for political reasons. I recall Ilija Chashule explaining to a few Macedonians (around 1994/5) how he was perceived as being a lunatic when he presented his research papers on Paleo-Balkan linguistics to his peers at some academic conference he attended and can only think an even worse reception would apply to Iljov. Also, when even Russian academics such as Genadij Stanistavlovich Grinevich have not received any positive reviews from peers in western circles, I should think that it would be delusional to expect such for mere Macedonians such as Vasil Iljov.
              That's very true, but the only way to challenge and defeat the western theories is to confront them.
              We should be the first to question them instead of locking ourselves within some alternative academic circles.

              Tentov personally said to me, that after his publication on deciphering the Rosseta Stone, dozens academic adresses from many well known world universities went to his website and downloaded his whole study.

              And all of them remained silent!?!?!

              Tentov also have said it is 100 times harder for us to prove our findings because we need to turn upside down the whole internationally accepted learning, which is very difficult to be adopted and demand more time.

              But if we compare where we were 15-20 years ago and now, we can say the progress is obvious and exceeding.

              Having said that, with respect to all patriots who are working on this to happen, we have to preserve cold heads, to offer productive criticism and to enforce better supported standings before we make anything officially.

              Because if we fail one time, such failure will follow us all the time and it will be more difficult for us to prove anything else.
              The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

              Comment

              • Risto the Great
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 15658

                #97
                Originally posted by indigen View Post
                As I see it, there are too few patriots to allow them to be sacrificed at the altar of PC.
                I agree.
                Obviously we do not want to support every theory but we certainly should not be the enemy of these people.
                Risto the Great
                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                Comment

                • Dimko-piperkata
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 1876

                  #98
                  Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                  I ako ne e toi sho go datiral, isto taka toi e sho veli deka crtive na kamenjata pisat nesto - nesto sho ne bilo mozno vo toa vreme. Ako mois da dokazis inaku, pa aj dokazi.

                  Toa sho go kaza za vasil i einstein, ne e vredno za odgovor. Jas nemam nikakov problem da se sretnam so lugjevo, ama zosto mene samo da mi kazat a ne na celio svet?
                  pa neli mnogu ubavo vasil objasnuvat kako dostignal do deshifrirajneto...
                  - napravil kopija od artefaktot
                  - ja zgolemi kopijta za da mozhit pishanoto (tvojte crtnici) podobro da se gledat

                  toa e se...neli mnogu ubavo se gledat na negovite sliki deka ne se samo liniji tuku deka e rakopis.

                  deneska kje kacham nov video na jutjub...valda tamu kje vidish podobro.
                  Last edited by Dimko-piperkata; 10-29-2010, 02:51 AM.
                  1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum...
                  2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum...

                  Comment

                  • makedonche
                    Senior Member
                    • Oct 2008
                    • 3242

                    #99
                    Given this is the Macedonian Truth Organisation, the pusuit of the truth should be done in a manner which upholds certain procedures/principles, these should be applied to all claims/posts/threads equally in order to maintain the integrity of this forum.
                    On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

                    Comment

                    • indigen
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2009
                      • 1558

                      Originally posted by Bratot View Post
                      That's very true, but the only way to challenge and defeat the western theories is to confront them.
                      We should be the first to question them instead of locking ourselves within some alternative academic circles.

                      Tentov personally said to me, that after his publication on deciphering the Rosseta Stone, dozens academic adresses from many well known world universities went to his website and downloaded his whole study.

                      And all of them remained silent!?!?!

                      Tentov also have said it is 100 times harder for us to prove our findings because we need to turn upside down the whole internationally accepted learning, which is very difficult to be adopted and demand more time.

                      But if we compare where we were 15-20 years ago and now, we can say the progress is obvious and exceeding.

                      Having said that, with respect to all patriots who are working on this to happen, we have to preserve cold heads, to offer productive criticism and to enforce better supported standings before we make anything officially.
                      You raise some good points and I mostly agree with you.

                      Because if we fail one time, such failure will follow us all the time and it will be more difficult for us to prove anything else.
                      You have a point, but it should/must apply to official state institutions and academics working from within them. Individuals such as V. Iljov, A. Donski, C. Stefou (aka R. Stefov), T. Belchev, Sime Pandevski and the like can make any claims they like as individuals without serious repercussions and you can find them mirrored in all countries, and especially in those around our Macedonian neighbourhood. In our case, they serve a purpose to publish and promote aspects of our heritage and history that has been systematically neglected or denied for anti-Macedonian political agendas.

                      Lastly, if you take your last point and analyse it SERIOUSLY, what should we now expect from the international community after 99.9% of what official Macedonian state institutions have been sending (or displaying) to the world since 1945 has been to present us as newcomers from behind the Carpathian Mountains? :-)

                      So pochit,
                      I.

                      Comment

                      • indigen
                        Senior Member
                        • May 2009
                        • 1558

                        Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                        Originally Posted by indigen :
                        As I see it, there are too few patriots to allow them to be sacrificed at the altar of political corectness (PC).
                        I agree.
                        Obviously we do not want to support every theory but we certainly should not be the enemy of these people.
                        Thanks for concurring, RTG.

                        But we must also TRY to practice what we preach! As I know that I am also guilty of past transgressions against this principled motto, please remind (as an MTO Admin) to apply it if ever I forget to. :-)

                        So pochit,
                        I.

                        Comment

                        • Soldier of Macedon
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 13670

                          Originally posted by Indigen
                          Iljov's official status and the "damage" his views may have on Macedonians in comparison to the damage inflicted on ALL (ethnic) Macedonian schoolchildren via the education curricula of the state education system are incomparable.
                          Educating the Macedonian masses doesn't end with schoolchildren, a large proportion of our adults are also yet to be adequately educated on our historical truth. Iljov does not seek to have his material scrutinised by others around the world, but instead displays it on the internet and talks about it in Macedonia only. This is a huge problem, and the 'danger' of such extreme revisionism (irrespective of his good intentions) produced for domestic consumption should not be underestimated.
                          Maybe a bit of both!
                          Then you're not thinking about this clearly.
                          As I see it, there are too few patriots to allow them to be sacrificed at the altar of political correctness (PC).
                          I am not interested in a brand of 'patriotism' that is built on such an uncorroborated foundation. What appeals to me is patriotism built on solid foundations, the type we can find here at the MTO, where we allow and accept criticism in pursuit of the truth, and continue to build upon solid ground. I would have a monumentally greater respect for the guy if he put forth his works for criticism, even if he was proven wrong.

                          Tell me, what possible benefit does his 77,000 year old theory provide for Macedonians? Pride?
                          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13670

                            Originally posted by Dimko-piperkata View Post
                            pa neli mnogu ubavo vasil objasnuvat kako dostignal do deshifrirajneto...
                            - napravil kopija od artefaktot
                            - ja zgolemi kopijta za da mozhit pishanoto (tvojte crtnici) podobro da se gledat

                            toa e se...neli mnogu ubavo se gledat na negovite sliki deka ne se samo liniji tuku deka e rakopis.

                            deneska kje kacham nov video na jutjub...valda tamu kje vidish podobro.
                            Dzabe sliki i snimki ko nemozi nisto da potvrdi.

                            I have asked the same questions repeatedly in the past, particularly on this thread below which I specifically created to analyse his works:

                            YouTube - VASIL ILJOV - ancient Macedonian inscriptions (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L45fHRSdJjw&feature=related) YouTube - VASIL ILJOV - 9000years old MACEDONIAN STAMP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuERDcTok94&feature=related) YouTube - VASIL ILJOV - HERODOT (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O3laGASQcY&f


                            The questions there, as here, remain unanswered. Young Macedonians are reading his 'works' and watching his clips thinking it's gospel, only to have it all torn to shreds by anybody that bothers to take a closer look. If you're in touch with him, Dimko, then tell him to do the right thing by his people and at least try and elaborate and corroborate his works.
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • Soldier of Macedon
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 13670

                              Originally posted by Risto the Great
                              Obviously we do not want to support every theory but we certainly should not be the enemy of these people.
                              But we should hold them accountable for their words and actions.
                              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                              Comment

                              • El Bre
                                Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 713

                                Indigen, (and I ask you with all due respect and purely out of curiosity) why do you write Stefou instead of Stefov? I could be wrong, but, I don't think he goes by Stefou anymore.

                                Comment

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