Shmuel Vaknin aka 'Sam' - The Liar

[fyrOM]

Zadan you got exactly the response you should have expected. Gone are the days when force would work every time…the key word is persuasion.

Too many people hold freedom of speech in a high place and anyone attacking freedom of speech will be attacked regardless if you are right or wrong unless ofcourse as the responding email says unless harming laws. Not quite the most eloquent way to put it but I think you know what they mean.

As a journalist I would have though you would be more familiar with the concept of freedom of speech and also honed in on your skills at persuasive writing.

PS Is your name Shem re From: Liran Shem <[email protected]>

[zadan]

my name is zoran d. = ZaDan (Den is name of good frend of myne). i am jurnalist with bigest paper in makedonija. i live in skoppje. i kno vaknin and meet him many times. he dont kno i am zadan.

in makedonija to give freedom of speech to enemy that say that makedonijans shuld not have own country???

even in usa this is not posible, sorry i dont agre with you.

[Makedonetz]

wow for someone who has the largest paper in Macedonia i think id learn how to spell our capital city first before you toot your horn there bratko.

skoppje

[TrueMacedonian]

Zadan why not provide a counter arguement with facts through your newspaper? I think that would hit harder than asking someone to silence a persons opinion because you don't like it.

[fyrOM]

Zadan Its irrelevant whether you agree with me or not it is a fact in all western countries and a firmly held belief. What I am saying is if you are going to tackle someone from a country that has freedom of speech they will never let you win by trying to silence freedom of speech regardless how right you are and they will ignore you or tell you to go away as they did. It is their game with their rules and if you want to play it will be by their rules or they wont let you play.

Completely silencing someone is not easy but you can minimise how much someone wants to talk to a person or to treat them with hostility. All I’m saying is you need a different approach to get the interviewer to be favourable to your views. As TrueMacedonian suggests you could write a counter piece in your paper. I don’t know if this would effect Vaknin realising who you are. Try persuading the interviewer of Vaknins negative qualities but more so the inaccuracies in his views.

Makedonez I would expect better from all posters. Ofcourse you are free to say what you want and how appt that the discussion is about freedom of speech. But you might want to consider not to trivialise the meaning of a post by targeting trivial matters like a missed typo. We have all done typos and it’s a cheap shot and as such it belittles the writer more than the person it is targeted at.

Zadan…Totally coincidently the above paragraph is an example of what I was talking about.

[Bill77]

ozi...... There must be a line where something is clasified as "Freedom of speech" and when its crossed it becomes dangerous for the state.
Could you argue that the likes of Thaci and Erwan Fouéré negetive and dangerous comments as being freedom of speech also?


Regarding the email by Steve,
The idea of sending a complaint wasn't bad. The way it was written is shocking.
Zadan, next time you wan't to use your rights of freedom of speech, get someone more profesional to write one for you. I mean..... look at this,

It is your affair that you are inviting a self-confessed psychopath (see the movie "I, Psychopath")

Now how can anyone take you or the sender of this seriously.

[fyrOM]

Bill77...You are right Bill77 that not anything and everything can be said in the name of free speech.
There is hate speech incitement to violence including rebellion war and treason. The person doing the reply I guess Marija Armenski …one could joke aramianski unless she is calling Vaknin in to discredit him…put it
unless harming laws.
which I guess is her way of saying unless it contravenes any law which she doesn’t elaborate but which I have mentioned above.

Thaci and Co making statements about splitting the state or acting by force of arms are illegal and the government could have taken them to task depending on how Macedonia’s laws of treason a framed. I think one could argue the government is giving them too much latitude but I think it is the government giving them enough rope. At least I hope so. My guess is after the census next year the screws will be tightened on them after all if done now only the old lying statistics remain and arguments could be made by internal and external forces.

[PetarMKD]

The problem is they abuse the basic human right to express them selves freely by denying us the basic human right of self determination so that should be a sufficient argument to nullify their right. So OziMak if those are their rules I guess they must obey. However, you must have realized by now that those rules apply for everyone except for the Macedonians. They have a whole new set of rules for us, they are called double standards.

[Prolet]

I think there is a fine line of Free Speech compared to promoting genocide,treason,non existence of our country if somebody does this in America they would probably be tried for high treason.

Its one thing to state an opinion but this is more like hate and pissing on our country, its not free speech its more like anarchy.

[Pelister]

I think that any forum that discusses issues about Macedonia, and the Macedonians with no educated and principled Macedonian representatives is a farce. Moreover, if all that happens is that a meeting of various people - some of whom (such as S. Vaknin) have been known to say negative things against the Macedonian State and people, gathers, well, it begins to look like a bullshit gathering more interested is political mischief, than forum that is serious, respectful and dignified.

Let this moron waste his money.

[Bratot]

my name is zoran d. = ZaDan (Den is name of good frend of myne). i am jurnalist with bigest paper in makedonija. i live in skoppje. i kno vaknin and meet him many times. he dont kno i am zadan.

in makedonija to give freedom of speech to enemy that say that makedonijans shuld not have own country???

even in usa this is not posible, sorry i dont agre with you.

Yes, of course. And Walt Disneys father was Albanian.




Why don't you find some other playground Mr.DeBille ?

[Daskalot]

my name is zoran d. = ZaDan (Den is name of good frend of myne). i am jurnalist with bigest paper in makedonija. i live in skoppje. i kno vaknin and meet him many times. he dont kno i am zadan.

in makedonija to give freedom of speech to enemy that say that makedonijans shuld not have own country???

even in usa this is not posible, sorry i dont agre with you.

Hmmm, I smell a rat......

If your name is "Zoran D" and you have stated this on here connected to your user name "Zadan", dont you think Mr Vaknin could put two and two togheter?
How many journalists are there at the BIGGEST newspaper in Macedonia with the name "Zoran D"??
One, two or maybe ten? Most likely ONE.
So if you meet Vaknin on a regular basis then he knows that you are Zadan.
Your identity is now known to Mr Vaknin.

You have also stated in your first post that your name is "LIRAN SHEM".
This is highly suspect.

[Bill77]

vaknin is completly against eu. in 1997 he publish this in nova makedonija:

http://samvak.tripod.com/nm04.html

In that case, Vaknin can't be as bad as you make him to be and clearly you are defending him..... or are you realy?

Zadan, What are your views on Macedonia joining EU?

[zadan]

name

liran shem is my email name, not my real name. i never ever say is my name, not here not anywere. i dont belive vaknin is read this forum plus i am not afriad of vaknin if he kno who i am. i am not asham of my view of vaknin.

this is the point, not my name:

vaknin say makedonijans shuld not have own country because the are stupid teski seljaci. this is hate spech, not alow any where in world.

ngos finance by west invite vaknin to tribina, knoing that he is say this things, hate, negative about makedonija.

is this ok? i dont think so.

[zadan]

vaknin sonce tv intervie

vaknin on sonce tv interview english and makedonijan

http://www.tv-sonce.com/muabetiso/semvakni.html