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View Poll Results: Do you consider the UMD as your representative for the Macedonian Diaspora?
Yes 2 4.35%
No 44 95.65%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-27-2018, 08:51 AM   #6691
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Originally Posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
This is very interesting, thank you.

Do you have any links to Ivanov visiting the MPO and/or the Bulgarian church?
Someone from this forum provided us with these pictures.

https://twitter.com/LOMAmacedonians/...04796922785792
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Old 09-27-2018, 10:15 AM   #6692
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Ivanov showing his true colours?
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Old 09-27-2018, 10:25 AM   #6693
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Ivanov showing his true colours?
Well, he is adamantly against the name deal with Greece and just encouraged people to not vote when he spoke at the UN. So, that is good.

On the flip side, he supports the Friendship Treaty with Bulgaria and he went to the Bulgarian Church in Detroit this past weekend.

There hasn't been an explanation from him why he supports a treaty that requires Macedonia to celebrate Ilinden with Bulgaria and to create a common history. He's just stated that he supports the economic advantages that it will bring and the European perspectives.

Regarding the church attendance, there's a small chance that he may have not known Meto and others helped schedule a visit to a Bulgarian Church, that is to be fair, attended by several Macedonians. Still, to knowingly give the Bulgarian Synod equal treatment as the MOC in a time when the Macedonian-America public is a) suspicious that our church may change its name or become a part of another church; and b) is strongly against the Friendship Treaty...well, that's disheartening to say the least.

Someone in Ivanov's circle had to have known, or should have known, what is up. They are not that na´ve. Macedonian politicians have been associating themselves with the MPO and going to the Bulgaro churches for some time now. I can't help but suspect that a Macedonian reorientation toward Bulgaria is becoming normalized within the republic.
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Old 09-28-2018, 05:57 PM   #6694
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Unfortunately people have ulterior motives such as financial gain, ego related, power ambitions, career progression and downright mental illness which drives them. Macedonians are the same every where in this regard, I've seen it in our churches, soccer clubs, business and family. You know the mentality ne chinit pa jas chinam.. all the same crap. True Macedonians are long dead and never to return, the ones that picked up the gun, left their impoverished selo and family and never returned. The rest today will take your soul, your money and if you are not careful I zeneta. So be careful of the Macedonian.
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Old 09-28-2018, 06:29 PM   #6695
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I think we might be glorifying the "True Macedonians". If we met them in real life, they probably would have been as shifty as they come. All of this is nothing more than human nature. The only ones whose intentions can easily be interpreted are the filthy rich and the filthy poor. Everyone else in the middle of all that is just distracted with their own little dramas.
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Old 09-28-2018, 07:00 PM   #6696
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Just missing a key attributes which separates them, that is willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for their cause and bravery? I'd choose and glorify the "shifty" fighter Macedonian. You'd find that the greedy types are less willing to give than take.. I think we shouldn't diminish the sacrifice made by some and throw them in the Same basket as today's mob yes no one is perfect but fighting is also human nature..
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Old 09-28-2018, 08:00 PM   #6697
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what defines/makes a "true Macedonian"?
It's irrelevant. What is more important is the distinction between good and bad Macedonians. True Macedonians are everywhere, doesn't mean they are good for Macedonia.
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Old 09-28-2018, 08:14 PM   #6698
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Sorry agreed True Macedonians are everywhere.
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Old 09-29-2018, 10:53 PM   #6699
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Vic,
Thanks for all that recent info! As you know, I was familiar with that church when younger and recall several Macedonian "uprisings". I recall whispers of MPO, usually with a Macedonian or English curse word in from of it. I also recall graffiti in the men's room. Have not been their in decades, did not realize the politics until many years later and am still learning. I just recall we always had Macedonians, Bulgarians , a few "Greeks", and Armenians. (The Greeks didn't speak Greek )We also had a few "Amerikanski" from the surrounding are, which was cool.

I do know that several years ago I heard a story that Mike Ilitich offered them a sum of money to either combine with one of the MOC's or to repair St. Clement. They chose the latter. (Can you confirm or debunk this?). I'd be interested. I always recall hearing MPO in whispers there, but was raised 100% Macedonian. This vote thing is killing me...
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Old 07-14-2020, 10:03 AM   #6700
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https://umdiaspora.org/cpt_services/...and-education/
Quote:
UMD reiterates its unwavering support for retention of the one and only constitutional and rightful name of Macedonia, rejects all attempts to change or impose any other name upon Macedonia and the Macedonian people, and calls upon the Macedonian government to cease the ongoing UN talks and to submit a resolution before the UN General Assembly to be re-admitted to the UN under its one and only constitutional and rightful name — the Republic of Macedonia.
A far cry from their stances back in the day. But I suppose people can change. This was interesting also:

https://umdiaspora.org/cpt_services/advocacy-2/
Quote:
The role of the Australia Macedonia Parliamentary Friendship Group (AMPFG) is to promote closer, better quality and more meaningful relations with the Republic of Macedonia and its diaspora in Australia through innovative and high impact policies, programs, projects and events that deliver better social, economic and environmental outcomes for all key stakeholders. Below is a list of members and friends of the AMPFG.
I am not sure what UMD's involvement is with the AMPFG or why they are promoting this group on their website. Two people on the list caught my attention: Mr Steve Georganas MP and Ms Maria Vamvakinou MP. A short search online produced the following:
Quote:
June 2013 - After Stephen Jones, a Member of Parliament for Australia’s Labor Party gave a speech insisting that his country recognize FYROM as The Republic of Macedonia, Foreign Minister Bob Carr gave reassurances that the government didn’t back him. Carr told Steve Georganas, Vice-President of the Parliament, that “The policy of Australia to the Skopje issue remains stable,” and didn’t expect it would change. Georganas had asked him to give a definitive stance.
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May 2019 - An effective spokesperson for the Greek community in Canberra, she has crusaded for a number of issues, and has worked alongside other Greek-Australian federal politicians to align Australia’s foreign policy with the needs of the diaspora on matters such as the Cyprus Occupation and the name dispute with the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.
How would those two promote closer, better quality and more meaningful relations? Perhaps a bit of due diligence every now and then.
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