‘Projectiles’ Hit HQ of Macedonian Government

[ramo]

I intentionally did not respond immediately to the accusations and i am glad that someone made correct conclusions. It is funny to me to be labelled as sdsm as much funny as percents (75 %) invented by gocka as support vmro and the parties in coalition with vmro has in Macedonia. Gocka please do a simple math and calculate how much is 480 000 (plus albanian DUI has 150 000) out of 1 800 000 voters and tell me how you got to these funny percentages for support vmro and his coalition partners have (more than 20 smaller political parties). I do not tell you to take into account the facts that many people were forced to vote as we all that live here know, nor the fact that many who vote for vmro do not believe them. Just tell the formula you used.

One more thing, what i said about the bombings is not sdsm position so you can label me as such. I just showed facts and made my own observation. I support only justice that's why i don't care if someone is saying bad things, lies or facts that any political party does not like.And i will be annoying but i must again say that this government is guilty for massive depopulation of Macedonians for which any patriot should be deeply concerned.

[VMRO]

There it is again, the old "if you're not with us - you're against us" labeling (just making comparison,I'm not implying some of you are DPMNE sympathizers).
If someone is against the government,it doesn't mean they're automatically SDSM members/sympathizers by default.
I am anti-DPMNE myself but sure as hell am not pro-SDSM either.
On the other hand,when Lavce came out as DPMNE member here,no one threw rocks at him as far as I can recall so let's not give ramo a hard time either.
At the end of the day,one's political beliefs are their own personal matter,wouldn't you agree?

Not giving him a hard time, it his choice of who he wants to support.

[DraganOfStip]

Not giving him a hard time, it his choice of who he wants to support.

Either way,I'm just not happy with all that labeling here,not just in political conotation but also in every other discussion we're having.
People seem to forget that it's not all black and white,there's an entire spectrum of colors in between that they (intentionally or not) can't seem to see.
If you criticize the government - you're a "komunjar",if you ctiticize the oposition - you're a "VMROvec" etc etc.
Macedonia is where it is today exactly because of these labelings,if people in the republic would see at least one of the colors in that invisible (for them) spectrum on any elections,both DPMNE and SDSM would meet their end.
Both DPMNE and SDSM destroyed our country beyond repair and yet in every electoral cycle Macedonians keep giving their votes to them.
It's just beyond comprehension for me.
Giving it a thought,our people deserve everything that's happening to them right now,it's their own fault.
It's not Grujo,Branko,Ljubco or Zaev's fault,it's the people's.
As our old saying goes : додека има овци - ќе има и волна.

[Gocka]

Everyone is free to support or not support any party they choose. The problem I am having is with people not being honest and up front about their support.

Previous members have caught a lot of flack for supporting VMRO as well, including Lavche. Some members even left the forum because they got so much criticism for being VMRO apologists.

Again the problem arises when people covertly post propaganda about one party or the other all the while pretending like they aren't.

My issue with Ramo is that he is clearly anti VMRO which is fine. Most people here are. But based on his posts he also comes off as pro SDSM but never admits to it.

He claims nothing VMRO says or does is authentic, but all the claims brought on by SDSM must be authentic given the fact that SDSM has proven over and over to be a bunch of liars and sell outs.

What also anoys me is that he never wants to admit that VMRO within the group of Macedonians who actually vote, is by far the dominant party, especially among young people, even though Ramo claims that only old clueless people who have been brainwashed vote VMRO. Even though SDSM's voting demographic is typically old pro Yugo srbomani.

Just becasue VMRO is the dominant party, doesnt make them legitimate, but claiming they are not the dominant party makes you sound illegitimate.

[Volokin]

Overall, there is something going on here.

Wiretaps, bombings, foreign intervention, gas pipelines etc...

Something is happening with external pressure.

I see this as a potential turning point with Macedonian's place within the Euro community.

[Gocka]

Agreed. I think there are many players in this game, and more than likely we will never find out exactly what is happening or why. I just hope that somehow we get something out of it as a nation and as a people. I hope we don't end up someone's bitch or worse yet someone's proxy war.

The way I see the current state of affairs is this. We know VMRO is corrupt but we more or less know what to expect. We know SDSM is corrupt but at the moment we have no idea who they are in bed with and what their plans are, for the last decade they have made it their one and only goal to topple the government. They have made no attempt to appeal to the people and offer viable alternatives. All they say is that VMRO is corrupt and by default they should be in power, but never say what it is they plan to do once in power. There is no point of replacing stable corruption with unpredictable and potentially worse corruption. If VMRO is going to be deposed and if we are going to buy into a revolt against the establishment we have to make sure we have a viable opposition that is of OUR choosing and not one implemented with foreign intervention. The last thing we need is to make a destabilizing change just for the sake of making a change.

SDSM supporters can cry foul all they want and talk about election fixing and fraud and corruption but at the end of the day that alone doesn't give you the right to reign. If you cant give yourself an identity other than being in opposition to the establishment then no one will vote for you. We need an opposition that has real ideas, who can tell the people exactly what changes they want to make and how they will be different from VMRO. Currently sadly, that doesn't exist. Macedonian politicians seem to think they have some kind of divine right to power, they don't want to work for the vote.

Say what you want about the USA and their dealings but domestically, voters vote based on issues. Both parties cleanly define their stances on issues, and voters decide which ideologies they agree with.

In Macedonia the political process and discourse is a joke. Vote for us and we will give your son a job, vote for us and we will increase the pensions, blah blah. We are ideologically empty. We have no identity because we don't stand for anything, we only want someone to give us something in return for our vote. If we as a nation don't care about anyone but ourselves then why would we expect our politicians to be any different?

Overall, there is something going on here.

Wiretaps, bombings, foreign intervention, gas pipelines etc...

Something is happening with external pressure.

I see this as a potential turning point with Macedonian's place within the Euro community.

[ramo]

How did you succeeded to connect this so called "attack on government building" where there are no suspects, with Europe, Usa and the whole world order and the conclusion and excuse for this corrupt government to stay in power in Macedonia? Are you writing a poem?

[DedoAleko]

I intentionally did not respond immediately to the accusations and i am glad that someone made correct conclusions. It is funny to me to be labelled as sdsm as much funny as percents (75 %) invented by gocka as support vmro and the parties in coalition with vmro has in Macedonia. Gocka please do a simple math and calculate how much is 480 000 (plus albanian DUI has 150 000) out of 1 800 000 voters and tell me how you got to these funny percentages for support vmro and his coalition partners have (more than 20 smaller political parties). I do not tell you to take into account the facts that many people were forced to vote as we all that live here know, nor the fact that many who vote for vmro do not believe them. Just tell the formula you used.

One more thing, what i said about the bombings is not sdsm position so you can label me as such. I just showed facts and made my own observation. I support only justice that's why i don't care if someone is saying bad things, lies or facts that any political party does not like.And i will be annoying but i must again say that this government is guilty for massive depopulation of Macedonians for which any patriot should be deeply concerned.

ramo, please tell us do you agree with the opposition's (or sds to be more precise) stand that Macedonia and Macedonians need to make a compromise (change the name), so that we can be accepted in the euro-atlantic community?

[ramo]

ramo, please tell us do you agree with the opposition's (or sds to be more precise) stand that Macedonia and Macedonians need to make a compromise (change the name), so that we can be accepted in the euro-atlantic community?

DedoAleko, my personal position on this matter is double formulla. Greece can call us whatever they want. I have defended the name in many occasions. There were many false arguments around the name change i was confronting wherever i could. So the answer to your question would be no. Now can you be honest and tell me do you agree with the position Grievski and his colleagues presented - republic of Macedonia (Skopje) which dpmne members started deffending as good solution (Mirka, Milenko and many pro government so called analysts ) and their position this to go on referendum ?

[DedoAleko]

DedoAleko, my personal position on this matter is double formulla. Greece can call us whatever they want. I have defended the name in many occasions. There were many false arguments around the name change i was confronting wherever i could. So the answer to your question would be no. Now can you be honest and tell me do you agree with the position Grievski and his colleagues presented - republic of Macedonia (Skopje) which dpmne members started deffending as good solution (Mirka, Milenko and many pro government so called analysts ) and their position this to go on referendum ?

Because you usually sound like a typical sds troll, I thought you will start preaching how we must make a “compromise” so that we can join nato and eu and “live happily ever after”.
Because that is sds’s official stand on the name issue if you haven’t hurd this, from the many of zaev’s anti-Macedonian statements.

As for me, I am not a fan of dpmne and I believe that even the very talks or “negotiations” over the name is act of high treason.

[ramo]

Because you usually sound like a typical sds troll, I thought you will start preaching how we must make a “compromise” so that we can join nato and eu and “live happily ever after”.
Because that is sds’s official stand on the name issue if you haven’t hurd this, from the many of zaev’s anti-Macedonian statements.

As for me, I am not a fan of dpmne and I believe that even the very talks or “negotiations” over the name is act of high treason.

I never sound like sdsm troll and i never support them except now and only for the facts they are revealing at the moment with the s.c. bombs, that and only that. I think that what hurts you is the fact that no one in Macedonia gives a fuck what some diaspora guys like yourself think and we all know what is your story i do not want to repeat myself. It is very contradictory that you often post articles in which you defend the ruling party which agreed to name change (and referendum about the new name ) and is in political marriage with UCK, only to discredit political party that is not in power for almost 10 years (which they deserved well).

[George S.]

Some one is loking to destabilise the govt to change it.One scene is sdsm will do anything to get to power.
sp they atre simply doing it to get to power.Things going awry dont look good for the ruling govt.

[Gocka]

I think our inherent hostility toward each other stops us form properly understanding each other. I think both of us actually stand for something different from what we accuse each other of.

I think case I am willing to concede that it very well may be a deflection scheme by DPMNE, but like I said in the other thread, the NLA did similar things back in 2000 before they actually started killing people. They made many threats, there were bombings in Tetovo and Debar. This is exactly how it started, that is why I get so worried when I see things like this.

How did you succeeded to connect this so called "attack on government building" where there are no suspects, with Europe, Usa and the whole world order and the conclusion and excuse for this corrupt government to stay in power in Macedonia? Are you writing a poem?

[ramo]

2 "projectiles" coming from the government passing by St. Kliment temple today. One line high school students, another university students.



Plus a video from the protest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=278&v=onBhXXlf9n0

[DedoAleko]

2 "projectiles" coming from the government passing by St. Kliment temple today. One line high school students, another university students.



Plus a video from the protest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=278&v=onBhXXlf9n0

ramo you are polluting the thread. This post doesn't belong here.