Macedonian Truth Forum   

Go Back   Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian Truth Forum > General Discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-28-2017, 10:53 AM   #11
vicsinad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,337
vicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud of
Default

This was also on her facebook timeline photo that she put up:

https://www.facebook.com/Chakardakov...070400/?type=3

If you can't see it, it says "Happy Holidays to all Bulgarians" and it's a picture of the Bulgarian flag.
vicsinad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 11:18 AM   #12
Niko777
Senior Member
 
Niko777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,895
Niko777 is on a distinguished road
Default

I didn't know she was the owner of Folklor TV.

She certainly belongs in the same category of other confused Macedonians...

You can't help but feel sorry for Bulgarians, their passion and love of Macedonian songs seems to be growing yet there isn't one Macedonian folk song out there that mentions the word "Bulgaria".

The same can be said about the Greeks as well.

Last edited by Niko777; 02-28-2017 at 11:40 AM.
Niko777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 11:48 AM   #13
Amphipolis
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,328
Amphipolis is on a distinguished road
Default

What is the language of the lyrics?
Amphipolis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 12:16 PM   #14
Niko777
Senior Member
 
Niko777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,895
Niko777 is on a distinguished road
Default

I could be wrong, but I would say she is singing in her native Nevrokop dialect. Reason I believe this is because she uses the Macedonian "жалам" instead of the Bulgarian "съжалявам".
Niko777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 03:19 PM   #15
Gocka
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Ohrid
Posts: 2,306
Gocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud of
Default

I agree, and its consistent with what I have observed form other confused Macedonian Pirinci. The dialect in the majority of Pirin is completely understandable to most Macedonians from elsewhere, while the further you go east it honestly becomes almost unintelligible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niko777 View Post
I could be wrong, but I would say she is singing in her native Nevrokop dialect. Reason I believe this is because she uses the Macedonian "жалам" instead of the Bulgarian "съжалявам".
Gocka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 01:51 AM   #16
Karposh
Member
 
Karposh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 733
Karposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud of
Default

I had high hopes for the Pirin Macedonians back in the early 90's. There was a moment in time there that looked like something was finally happening and a Macedonian awakening beginning to stir in Pirin. At the time, the Egejci seemed to be a real disappointment. You couldn't hear a peep out of them. It was the Pirinci who were leading the charge for Macedonian Human Rights and it all seemed so promising, seeing thousands of them gathering at Rozhen Monastery and claiming their rightful Macedonian identity in the face of Bulgarian repressive measures against them.

The 2011 Bulgarian Census counted only 1,654 ethnic Macedonians in the whole of Bulgaria and stressed that at least 1000 of them were also citizens of the Republic of Macedonia. That leaves only about 600 - 700 Bulgarian natives with a Macedonian ethnic consciousness.

To be honest, I don't know what to make of the Pirinci these days. We all know about Bulgarian manipulations - that's a given. But it also seems as though the fire has burned itself out and they've simply capitulated into becoming loyal Bulgarians. I really hope I'm wrong and that this ain't so. But you have to wonder what happened to the passion that was on display at the Rozhen monastery back in 1990, on the anniversary of Yane Sandanski's death, when an estimated crowd of 10,000+ gathered to show Bulgaria and Bulgarians that they are Macedonians and only Macedonians.

It is believed that the above estimate could well have doubled if not for the intervention by Bulgarian police who prevented close to half of them from attending that day through various means. Reports from the time claim that chartered buses from all over Pirin were cancelled at the last minute; other buses that were already on their way and jam packed were stopped and prevented from proceeding further; private cars were stopped and ordered not to continue on to Rozhen; even trekkers, some of which had abandoned their cars as a result of police, and made their way up the mountain to the monastery were stopped and, in many instances, beaten with police batons in a desperate bid to prevent them from arriving en-masse to the Rozhen monastery and demonstrating an open display of Macedonian identity in Bulgaria.

The YouTube video below is a little grainy and of poor quality but you can get a feel for the massive crowd that did eventually make it to Rozhen that day in 1990. Is anyone else besides me wondering what happened to this people? Have they simply given up the fight or have they been convinced otherwise? It's a real puzzle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWZGLmOlFC8
Karposh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 10:59 AM   #17
Momce Makedonce
Member
 
Momce Makedonce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 520
Momce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud of
Default

I have seen plenty of Macedonian gatherings and celebrations on Youtube from Pirin, however admittedly the number seems extremely low compared to the video that Karposh linked.

Singers from Pirin sing plenty of Macedonian songs, but as mentioned it is prone to having a Bulgarian undertone. Take this video for example of Rajna singing "Koga Padna na Pirina". She sings the exact same lyrics as Vaska Illieva, except in the clip there is a Bulgarian flag in the background at 1:32. It makes it difficult to know what the singer`s true intentions/beliefs actually are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWaJ7VTkmhs

I remember watching a news report on the Macedonians living in Bulgaria and the older Macedonians were explaining that it is hard to identify as Macedonian and be accepted. This may be the reason for the low numbers, especially in regards to younger people. We know of how difficult it can be for Macedonians in Egej to gain employment due to identifying as Macedonian, perhaps it`s even worse in Pirin.

Interestingly, I also just came across this on Youtube too. It`s a song about the football club Pirin Blagoevgrad. What is interesting is the lyrics of the song. Macedonia is mentioned and the Macedonian name Gorna Dzumaja is used for Blagoevgrad with nothing whatsoever about Bulgaria.
"Od Gorna Dzumaja, toa e gordosta na Makedonija, samo Pirin ale"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3Lboa83SSc
__________________
"The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task." Goce Delcev
Momce Makedonce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 12:02 PM   #18
vicsinad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,337
vicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud ofvicsinad has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Momce Makedonce View Post

Singers from Pirin sing plenty of Macedonian songs, but as mentioned it is prone to having a Bulgarian undertone. Take this video for example of Rajna singing "Koga Padna na Pirina". She sings the exact same lyrics as Vaska Illieva, except in the clip there is a Bulgarian flag in the background at 1:32. It makes it difficult to know what the singer`s true intentions/beliefs actually are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWaJ7VTkmhs
That annoys me. They do that with so many songs. When they change the lyrics very slightly, though, it infuriates me if it's not a traditional folk song but rather a modern folk composition. For example, they took Vojo Stojanovski's 1996 "Edna Misla Imame" and changed "Makedonec" to "Bugarin" or whatever they say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egPKUVJzvEU

The best (Worst) in this rendition is this difference. In Macedonian, Vojo goes:

Nie ne sme grci, bugari nit srbi
Cheda sme na Aleksandar

Gloria goes:

Nie ne sme grci, osmanci nit srbi
Cheda sme na Asparuha

I always wondered about copyright infringement in the Balkans, and that could help the Macedonians keep Macedonian music protected as Macedonian. The stealing of songs is so rampant. Thieves. You can't steal traditional folk songs -- those are no longer in copyright. So when they sing "Navali Se Shar Planina" and pass it off as Bulgarian -- whatever, it's annoying. But copying these modern folk songs from the 1980s and 1990s isjust blatant thievery. Unless, of course, Macedonian musicians, composers and producers are selling the rights to their Bulgarian counterparts, which also wouldn't surprise me.

Last edited by vicsinad; 03-01-2017 at 12:14 PM.
vicsinad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2021, 05:08 AM   #19
Momce Makedonce
Member
 
Momce Makedonce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 520
Momce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud of
Default

Something further in relation to this topic.

I have always thought that Rajna who is from Pirin Macedonia to be openly Macedonian, she has lots of Macedonian songs on Youtube which I have linked below. She sings the Macedonian versions with no altering of lyrics for the most part (nothing pro Bulgarian just some Pirin dialect words that she uses here and there). It is common for some other pathetic Bulgarian singers to change these songs completely to appear Bulgarian.

Then I watch this clip from 2015 and at 5:00 she says something about "Bugarska muzika" and proceeds to sing Makedonsko Devojche. Not sure 100% what she said but I can assume she said something about the crowd enjoying Bulgarian music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgPV6MIs6Ls

I honestly get very confused with Bulgarians and some of these people from Pirin who are apparently Macedonian. I assume both Rajna and Nikolina mentioned earlier in the thread are both Macedonian as they are from Pirin, but it's hard to know what to make of them with regards to their Macedonian identity as there seems to be some contradictions in their actions.

Perhaps they are simply products of their environment, pressured to say certain things or act like these Macedonian folk songs are a subset of Bulgarian music? Perhaps they think this is a necessary sacrifice to put up with in order to keep Macedonian culture alive in this part of divided Macedonia? Or perhaps not?

It's hard to know for sure, but if it is the case that they believe it is a necessary sacrifice but are genuine Macedonians does it bring more harm or good...

Some other Macedonian songs she has performed over the years:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=200KvaVcMg4 Koga padna na Pirina

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c0KvsVBvs8 Stamena

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnHpyHq0BTg Makedonsko Devojche

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwj-4-LgJOo Zaplaci Moja Makedonijo (very interesting as it touches on a divided Macedonia)

On another note Jordan Mitev performed in Pirin Macedonia a couple of days ago in front of a big crowd, some videos are on his Facebook page.
__________________
"The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task." Goce Delcev

Last edited by Momce Makedonce; 08-30-2021 at 05:11 AM.
Momce Makedonce is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump