The commencment of Greek migration in Albania

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  • Epirot
    Member
    • Mar 2010
    • 399

    #16
    Originally posted by EricTheRed View Post
    Hello, I am from Greece and I have been visiting these forums for around 1 year,
    How could you stand inactive for so long time

    because of this totally misleading thread
    Not at all. If you read well the title of the topic, it is said: 'the commencment of Greek migration". I've argued that the scale of such migration is still low but it has some chances to grow-up rapidly.

    If you understand greek(which I assume you do, since you quoted this article), why lie so blutantly?
    I'm not lying my friend. I just brought up an article which dealt with such possibility. Following the Greek financial crisis, many Greeks went abroad seeking a better life. Some have averred that Greek community of Instambul is experiencing a Revival.

    Turkey: Istanbul’s Greek Community Experiencing a Revival

    In one of Istanbul's numerous chic cafes in the central Beyoglu district, Eleni Varmazi sits drinking a coffee, savoring city life. Varmazi teaches media studies at one of Istanbul's numerous private English-speaking universities. She’s also a member of the vanguard of Greeks coming to Turkey to work.

    "With the [economic] crisis in Greece there is no chance of work for young academics like me," Varmazi said, " I applied to the UK, to Brussels in the European Union … even to Ireland (Laughing).”

    With Istanbul only a 5-hour drive away from her homeland, Varmazi eventually came to see Turkey as a possible employment destination, and, before long, she landed a job, "It is even more convenient than trying to find a job in London or in Berlin,” she said. “It is closer. You can go back for weekends. I know two or three people who have moved here and found a job, and I am sure there are a lot more."

    Varmazi's story is remarkable considering that for decades Greece and Turkey were hostile neighbors, even though they are NATO allies. The two states reached the brink of armed confrontation on numerous occasions -- last time in 1996 amid a squabble over two uninhabited Aegean Sea islets. But those days of high tension now seem finally consigned to the annals of history.

    "We are nowhere close to the very difficult circumstances of the late 90s. … Students from Greece are now even coming to Istanbul to learn Turkish," said Ioannis Grigoriadis, a Greek international relations expert.

    Grigoriadis is one of the growing number of Greeks working in Turkey, teaching at Ankara's Bilkent UniversIty. He is so settled in Turkey that he has bought a house In Istanbul's Ballat area, the city's ancient Greek quarter. His family originally came from Turkey but moved to Greece like vast majority of the country's Greek minority because of bilateral tension.

    Turkish television programming is helping to solidify the rapprochement trend, said Grigoriadis. "In the last year a very popular television series from Turkey attracted a very high rating on Greek TV. … People [in Greece] understand Turkey is many things, of course there are dark sides like in many countries. So things are moving to a more balanced approach."

    Perhaps more important than the number of Greeks coming to work in Turkey, Greek tourism is booming. Over a million Greeks per year have visited Istanbul in recent years. "We love Istanbul. We have memories because a lot of Greek people lived here. We grew up listening to so many stories about Istanbul. So it is nice to visit it," said 22-year-old Maria, who recently visited as part of a tour group from Athens.

    Greeks, or as they are called here Rum, once comprised a quarter of Istanbul's population. But now they number only a couple of thousand. At the recent opening of an exhibition celebrating Greek architecture in Istanbul, a first for the city in recent memory, Greek not Turkish was the predominant language. Joining Turkish Greeks were Greeks who had recently moved to the city, some of whom are looking for work.

    One attendee, Laki Vingas, is a successful businessman and senior member of city's Greek community. For him an exhibition celebrating the city's Greek community is an indication of how far the Greek community has come since the darkest days of the last century. Not too long ago Greeks in Istanbul "were trying to hide their name, their religion, their identity," Vingas said. "Now they are saying this openly. Unfortunately it was a very bad century, the 20th century. So we feel the 21 century is a turning point for us."

    Signs of the Greek community’s population collapse still abound. Istanbul's Zografeion Greek High School is one of the city's largest, featuring 40 class rooms, but the school has less than 100 students. Empty classrooms line quiet halls.

    Whereas in the not too distant past, it was common for graduates to leave immediately for jobs and a future in Greece, now the talk is more about staying. "I want to become a translator at university in Turkey because I was born here, I am living here, I love Istanbul, I have friends here, and I don't want to leave them. I want my future here," said 17-year-old Natisa.

    A recent study by the Washington, DC,-based Brooking Institution ranked Istanbul among the top cities in the world “for offering the best economic opportunities.” Such findings suggest that the long decline of Istanbul’s Greek community could quickly give way to a boom.

    Varmazi, for one, says she has no plans to return to Greece, especially since family pressure to return has stopped. "Now that I am here everybody tells me; ‘don't you dare come back.’ Even my parents say that. They say stay there, try and keep your job as long as you can. Every time I go back to Greece, I feel there is an interest of people looking for a job."

    There are no official figures of how many Greeks are working in Istanbul, although the numbers are believed still to be small. But a decade ago it would have been unthinkable for most Greeks even to consider working in Turkey. That taboo seems over.

    http://www.eurasianet.org/node/62990
    because the albanian economy managed to prosper with funds from immigrant albanian workers in Greece,
    Partially true! Don't neglect the very fact that even the Albanian immigrant community impacted positively Greek economy. An expert on that matter has concluded: "In strictly economic terms, the large number of Albanian immigrant workers had an undoubtedly positive effect on the Greek economy". , I don't question the fact that for a long time thousand of Albanian families were depended largely on the remittances of their relatives working in Greece. It would be more correct to say that the funds of Albanian workers improved the economic standard of their families. But it's hard to assess what was the impact of these funds in the growing of Albanian economy in general. Do you get my point? Most experts points that Albanian economy grow rapidly because of the flourishment of tourism industry. The statistics of foreign tourists in Albania are striking: more than 2 million visits Albania in year. The building of highway which link Albanian ports with Central Balkan routes had a considerable impact on the growing of economy.

    And even if that was true, blocking Greek immigrants would be the epitome of ungratefulness
    I never suggested something like that. But the story of 'ungratefulness' does not hold any water. You know why? Many Albanian immigrants raised their voice for being ill-treated by the xenophobic Greeks. Then some Greek politicans cried that Albanians were showing 'ungratefulness' to Greece.
    Last edited by Epirot; 10-05-2012, 01:17 PM.
    IF OUR CHRONICLES DO NOT LIE, WE CALL OURSELVES AS EPIROTES!

    Comment

    • EricTheRed
      Junior Member
      • Oct 2012
      • 41

      #17
      I get your point Epirot, the words I used sound harsher than appropriate. It's just that these last years hate for Greece and greeks has reached very high levels, that's why we all tend to react in a negative manner in forums etc.

      I don't discard the possibility of a future wave of immigration towards the Balkans in general (there is already a noticeable increase of greek immigration towards Western Europe), however I felt I had to clarify some things regarding the source you used.

      About the economic benefits Greece had from Albanian immigration, I believe it was mostly the contractors, factory owners etc who actually benefited, because of cheap labor.

      As I mentioned in previous posts, xenophobia, peasant mentality etc is a common characteristic in the Balkans. The 90% immigration fact(which is not propaganda, check any official source) along with the crisis has soured up the already existing xenophobia Greece had, for obvious reasons.

      Regarding the ungratefulness issue, I never claimed Albanians or other immigrants in Greece should feel eternally thankful towards her etc etc thats bs, but at least their countries of origin should not completely block a potential wave of greek immigration, something that is constantly being proposed in many forums, articles etc. Lets not forget that a great percentage of investments in Albania and the wider balkans area(which are gradually bearing fruits) came from Greece and created thousands of jobs. At least greek immigrants should be able to try their fates in Albania and other countries.

      Anyways, I dont want to sound like the ''typical Greek peasant snob'', a stereotype prevalent in this forum, I just dont think Greece has caused that much harm in the Balkans to deserve to be the no.1 hate target (Macedonia could maybe be excluded from that statement, to be fair, due to conflicting vital interests regarding the greek part of Macedonia, which Greece cannot afford under any circumstances to lose, our everyday life and even survival would be endangered).

      Comment

      • Soldier of Macedon
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 13670

        #18
        Originally posted by EricTheRed View Post
        .........I just dont think Greece has caused that much harm in the Balkans to deserve to be the no.1 hate target........
        Greece is the no. 1 country in the Balkans that propagates hate, especially towards Macedonians. If you honestly believe that Greece hasn't caused much harm then you're either completely naive or deliberately ignorant.
        Macedonia could maybe be excluded from that statement, to be fair, due to conflicting vital interests regarding the greek part of Macedonia, which Greece cannot afford under any circumstances to lose, our everyday life and even survival would be endangered
        Many neighbouring countries have conflicting interests. If Macedonia has negative feelings towards Greece it is because the latter has behaved sub-human towards Macedonians for decades upon decades.
        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

        Comment

        • fatso
          Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 301

          #19
          Sorry Eric, but SoM is correct.
          Take it from a Greek.
          Last edited by fatso; 11-09-2012, 08:35 PM.

          Comment

          • momce
            Banned
            • Oct 2012
            • 426

            #20
            Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
            I stand by my assessment that it is the most racist country in the Balkans.
            And racist on other peoples land to boot, on Macedonian land. The greek petit-bourgeois, church and state have been committing genocide against surrounding peoples since that entity was created and before. Serious I could care less if greeceroum dies on a toilet seat defecating on itself with a discarded 9mm nearby. Its great that entity is collapsing in so many forms. Lawless war.
            Last edited by momce; 02-20-2013, 11:31 PM.

            Comment

            • momce
              Banned
              • Oct 2012
              • 426

              #21
              Originally posted by EricTheRed View Post
              I get your point Epirot, the words I used sound harsher than appropriate. It's just that these last years hate for Greece and greeks has reached very high levels, that's why we all tend to react in a negative manner in forums etc.

              I don't discard the possibility of a future wave of immigration towards the Balkans in general (there is already a noticeable increase of greek immigration towards Western Europe), however I felt I had to clarify some things regarding the source you used.

              About the economic benefits Greece had from Albanian immigration, I believe it was mostly the contractors, factory owners etc who actually benefited, because of cheap labor.

              As I mentioned in previous posts, xenophobia, peasant mentality etc is a common characteristic in the Balkans. The 90% immigration fact(which is not propaganda, check any official source) along with the crisis has soured up the already existing xenophobia Greece had, for obvious reasons.

              Regarding the ungratefulness issue, I never claimed Albanians or other immigrants in Greece should feel eternally thankful towards her etc etc thats bs, but at least their countries of origin should not completely block a potential wave of greek immigration, something that is constantly being proposed in many forums, articles etc. Lets not forget that a great percentage of investments in Albania and the wider balkans area(which are gradually bearing fruits) came from Greece and created thousands of jobs. At least greek immigrants should be able to try their fates in Albania and other countries.

              Anyways, I dont want to sound like the ''typical Greek peasant snob'', a stereotype prevalent in this forum, I just dont think Greece has caused that much harm in the Balkans to deserve to be the no.1 hate target (Macedonia could maybe be excluded from that statement, to be fair, due to conflicting vital interests regarding the greek part of Macedonia, which Greece cannot afford under any circumstances to lose, our everyday life and even survival would be endangered).
              Yah? hahah too bad for you since its not yours to win or lose

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