Financial Crisis in Greece

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  • fatso
    Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 301

    Originally posted by Onur View Post
    Greek crisis may change taboo on church wealth
    As ordinary Greeks suffer from a massive austerity drive, the wealth of the Church is coming into the spotlight as some question its favored status. Still, nobody wants to talk about the issue, a Greek journalist says.

    The riches of the Church of Greece could help Greeks shoulder the country’s mountain of debt, but any suggestion about redistributing the wealth has its controversies. With the Greek streets heating up, however, even the men of the cloth have started to question whether their favored status can last forever.

    Speaking during an Oct. 9 visit to Mount Athos, a collection of 20 fortified monasteries in northeastern Greece, Patriarch Bartholomew I, the Istanbul-based spiritual leader of Greek Orthodox Christianity, said the church should “cooperate with the government,” according to news agencies. Although Bartholomew’s words seemed to imply a change of status for the church, Dositheos Anağnastopulos, the press representative of the Fener Greek Patriarchate in Istanbul, refuted Bartholomew I’s words and told the Hürriyet Daily News that the patriarch simply “asked for help from God to aid Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou and other government officials around the world who have been suffering due to the crisis.”

    The Church of Greece has mostly been exempt from the austerity measures that ordinary citizens have been experiencing. A new tax on extra property was levied on citizens Sept. 11, but Athens was quick to announce that the church and its monasteries would not have to pay the tax.

    The sacrosanct status of the church’s finances is engraved in the Greek Constitution. On top of that, the current finance minister, Evangelos Venizelos, is known for being “very close” to the Orthodox community. “Nobody would want to talk about this, because just by talking one confronts the church itself,” said Mihalis Vasiliadis, the editor-in-chief of the Istanbul-based Greek-language daily Apoyevmatini. “The autonomous status of the church is [guaranteed] with the third and 105th articles of the Constitution.”

    Speaking to the Daily News, Vasiliadis described the “unity” of the Greek state and the church. “I wish it were like in Turkey, with the government and the church separated. Something has to be done about this urgently.”

    “The church does not wish to pay a share of its income,” the metropolitan of Bursa, Elpidophoros Lambriniadis, told the Daily News. “But on the other hand, priests cannot even be sent to villages due to this crisis.”

    Wealth hard to estimate
    According to an estimate by daily Katimerini, the church’s assets amounted to 700 million euros in 2008, but Stefanos Manos, a politician who has held a number of Cabinet posts, estimated them at over 1 billion euros. However, these figures only take into account the portion of ecclesiastical assets that were directly managed by the central services of the church. Thus, property owned by parishes and the 80 Greek bishops, as well as the assets of 450 monasteries, was not included in the estimates.

    The “crown jewel” in the church’s assets is a 7.6 percent stake in the National Bank of Greece (NBG), which also owns Finansbank in Turkey.

    General government gross debt in Greece reached 143 percent of gross domestic product last year. The current debt load, estimated at around 325 billion euros, is nearly double the level most economists see as sustainable. “Beginning in the 19th century, the Church of Greece established its status as a founding partner of banks,” Vasiliadis told the Daily News. “Its shares grew in value each passing year. Today, the budget of every monastery and church depends on metropolitan bishops – even the Archbishop Ieronimos cannot intervene in this,” he said.

    The Istanbul-based journalist said the archbishop, however, would “wish to support the government” in these hard times. “Of course, hard-line metropolitan bishops will oppose him,” Vasiliadis added.

    Thursday, October 13, 2011

    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.p...lth-2011-10-13
    Well said...

    Comment

    • George S.
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2009
      • 10116

      Yeah that's a good article.i wonder how willing they'll be to part with some of that money?
      "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
      GOTSE DELCEV

      Comment

      • julie
        Senior Member
        • May 2009
        • 3869

        Originally posted by George S. View Post
        Yeah that's a good article.i wonder how willing they'll be to part with some of that money?
        Greece should be accountable, and if EU was serious about Greece paying any of the debt off, they should be declaring them as insolvent and SEIZE and sell off all assets!!
        They have a legal and moral obligation to do this. Its not about Greece being willing to be part of , buut should be IMPOSED upon them!
        Once they sell off all the church assets, churches and islands , watch how quickly they will pull money out of a hat
        Greece is the most corrupt nation in the world. Why does the EU not assist Ireland with austerity measures?????!!!!!

        The united states of Europe and all people that support that bullshit union can have their own assets seized , the fascist bunch of morons
        "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

        Comment

        • Onur
          Senior Member
          • Apr 2010
          • 2389

          Like i said above here few days ago, Austrians now asking Greece to buy more military equipment from EU, saying that giving Austrian people`s money to US is unacceptable unless they buy some more from them (!!!)

          News story about U.S. M1A1 tanks for Greece gets international media attention
          The article of the “Hellenic Defence & Technology” magazine, regarding the possible acquisition of 400 used M1A1 tanks from the U.S. surplus for the Greek Army, which was republished in English by defencegreece.com attracted the attention of news media in many countries, mainly in Europe, during the last few days. Starting from Finland, which is most reluctant to further finance the bailout of Greece, this news story was broadcasted in several other media in European countries and elsewhere.

          Despite the consecutive deep cuts in the Greek defense budget over the last years, this news story regarding the M1A1 tanks was heavily criticized in Europe with the focus being on the argument of how it is possible to lend money to Greece in order to be saved from bankruptcy and Greece using that money to obtain tanks. According to capital.gr, Andreas Meltzer, MP of the right-wing populist opposition party ‘Freedom Party of Austria’ (FPÖ) in the European Parliament, is asking the Austrian government if this news story is true. He is also stating that it is unacceptable if all these billions of Euros of Austrian taxpayers given to Athens are spent there for lucrative arms procurements. He is further asking why Greece is not buying tanks from a European country. This news story about the American tanks caused hot discussions, which are reflected in the comments section of the article here in defencegreece.com and in other blogs and forum.

          On the other hand, the Greek defense press mainly sees this issue as an opportunity for the Greek Army to replace older outdated equipment without any significant cost. However, it should be noted that during the last few years the Greek defence press has published a number of news stories concerning possible new arms acquisitions from Greece. However, almost none of these prospect deals, with the exception of 223 German M-109 surplus howitzers granted to Greece for €16.598.720 in 2010, has not materialize, mainly due to the financial constraints imposed by the current economic crisis.

          http://www.defencegreece.com/index.p...dia-attention/



          Originally posted by fatso View Post
          What poor Greek people ? Have you been there? Most Greek are well off . Quit talking out of your ass.
          From Greek media;
          Crisis Changes People’s Εating Habits
          Nine out of 10 Greeks have changed their food shopping habits since the debt crisis started eating into household budgets with one in four claiming to buy only the basics, according to a new study made public on Thursday. The study, conducted by consumer protection group KEPKA on a sample of 1,260 respondents last month, compared people’s eating and shopping habits to those reported in 2006.

          The study, as daily Kathimerini reports today, found that two out of 10 respondents (19.9%) cited the impact of the debt crisis as a contributing factor to the change in their eating habits. This is up 17% from 2006, when just 2.6% said financial concerns influenced their diet. Health remained the primary concern, with 41.74% saying that they had healthy eating in mind when shopping.

          Nine out of 10 Greeks have changed their food shopping habits since the debt crisis started eating into household budgets with one in four claiming to buy only the basics, according to a new study made public on Thursday. The study, conducted by consumer protection group KEPKA on a sample of 1,260 respondents last month, […]



          Greek Crisis Out Of Control: Primary School Pupils Faint from Starvation
          “Our pupils faint due to starvation. We see our pupils coming to school with holes in their shoes. They don’t even have money to buy food from the school canteen”.

          Reading this statement a couple of years ago, you would surely thought that is coming from a Teachers’ Union of a third world country, in fact the statement bears a lot of similarities with a statement issued from the Progressive Teachers’ Union of Zimbabwe a couple of years ago. But no. This is a statement issued by the Teacher’s Union of an EU member country: Greece.

          Behind bankruptcies, foreclosures, evictions, and layoffs, the human cost of the Greek crisis is simply overwhelming. The shocking statement issued today by the Teacher’s association of Ambelokipi and Poiligonon districts in LIFO magazine describes how Greek primary school pupils are passing out during lessons because of hunger, after going for days without a proper meal.

          Teachers describe the situation in downtown Athens state schools as a living nightmare. In the sixth district of Athens pupils faint simply because they are starving! But the tragic human face of the Greek crisis raises its ugly head in parents’ suicides rates as well.

          Ten days ago in a school in Kipseli -a central Athenian district- teachers were shocked to find out that a jobless father of three of their pupils committed suicide. “He just couldn’t cope anymore” sayed one of the teachers to Newsit portal. But numbers don’t lie. And even if there’s a teachers-minister dispute behind this statement, the truth of the matter is that Greeks are killing themselves, in numbers never before seen. According to the Ministry of Health suicide rates have jumped 40% when compared to the same periods last year, and suicide help lines are dealing with ten times the number of calls they are used to in the once upon a time careless country.

          http://greece.greekreporter.com/2011...om-starvation/
          Will you STFU? You better go back to digging your christian persecution website...
          Last edited by Onur; 10-15-2011, 05:24 AM.

          Comment

          • George S.
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2009
            • 10116

            probably trying to milk as much on the run as it can.Who knows how many billions it has stashed away that the eu doesn't know what they done with it.
            "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
            GOTSE DELCEV

            Comment

            • Onur
              Senior Member
              • Apr 2010
              • 2389

              I just saw a report from a defense industry website. One of the EU institution recently released statistics about military air fleets of various countries. You can see here;

              As you can see here, Greece has double amount of jet fighters than Spain and Italy, 100 more than UK and equaling France&German air force. The things is, France and UK are using their own Mirage jet fighters but ofc Greece buys them all since they don't have any military industry. We can easily understand that the French air force factories sells even more jet fighters to Greece than they give to their own air force. Turkish air force uses USA patented F series jets but we also manufacture these jets here in Turkey, so we don't pay anything but license fee. So, we can reach a conclusion as Greece is the world`s biggest market for selling military equipments (!!!)

              Also, it`s ridicules for a 10 million populated country to have that much equipment, equaling Germany or France with 80 million population. I don't think Greece even have enough well-trained pilots nor proper air force training academies for these jet fighters. I bet they don't even have enough qualified men to take off their 304 jets (!!!)


              I gotta remind you that these equipments costs billions to buy and 100s of millions for maintenance fees every year. So, it`s quite obvious that where they spent all that money and how they managed to create this pile of debt.


              P.S: Check the war machine`s (aka USA) air fleet stats. It`s even more than the total of all other countries in the list. It`s the other ridicules point in the list along with Greece`s.
              Last edited by Onur; 10-15-2011, 10:13 AM.

              Comment

              • Onur
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2010
                • 2389

                Germans and French are arguing each other over who sells what to bankrupt Greece and who will end up paying the money. This further confirms my words in the msg above about Greece being the biggest market for western military industry.

                France to Sell Frigates to Greece in Controversial Deal
                Berlin is unhappy about a weapons deal in which France plans to supply warships to highly indebted Greece free of charge for the first five years, and at a big discount when payment comes due. Firms and politicians in Germany say taxpayers may end up paying for part of the deal, and they want Chancellor Angela Merkel to intervene.

                A huge arms deal is threatening to put French-German relations under strain. According to information obtained by SPIEGEL, France wants to deliver two to four new frigates to the Greek navy and to allow the highly indebted nation to postpone payment of the €300 million ($412 million) purchase price per ship for the next five years.

                Under the deal, Greece will have the option of paying up after five years, with a significant discount of €100 million, or returning them to the French navy. The "stealth" frigates are designed to avoid detection by enemy radar and are built by state-owned French defense company DCNS.

                The deal is being criticized by German rivals that have been competing for the contract for years.

                In a letter to the German government, an executive from the ThyssenKrupp group complained that the vessel purchase will in effect be co-financed by German taxpayers because Greece, reliant on aid from the European Union and International Monetary Fund, may have to restructure its debts.

                'The Chancellor Must Stop Her Friend Sarkozy'
                A Greek debt haircut is looking increasingly likely. If this happens and Greece is rescued again with funds from the European bailout mechanisms, Thyssen's scenario would come true. German taxpayers would shoulder part of Greece's government spending and thereby be forced to pay for a portion of the frigate purchase.

                "While German naval shipyards aren't getting any orders, DCNS and Greek shipyards are being subsidized and kept alive, probably with German money in the end," the ThyssenKrupp executive said.

                Uwe Beckmeyer, a member of parliament from the the center-left Social Democrats, says German jobs are at stake and called on Chancellor Angela Merkel to get French President Nicolas Sarkozy to abandon the ship sale. "The Chancellor must stop her friend Sarkozy," said Beckmeyer.

                According to an internal Thyssen document, the deal may also breach EU rules on subsidies and public procurement. Thyssen has declined to make an official comment on the matter.

                Members of Merkel's center-right coalition government -- comprised of the conservative Christian Democratic Union, it's Bavarian sister party the Christian Social Union and the business-friendly Free Democratic Party (FDP) -- are also pressuring the chancellor to intervene.

                "I expect the troika but also the German government to clarify this matter at the next EU summit," said Otto Fricke, a member of parliament for the FDP.

                The troika, made up of the EU, IMF and European Central Bank, organized the bailout of Greece and is monitoring the nation's adherence to budget and economic reforms required by the lenders in return for their aid.

                10/17/2011

                http://www.spiegel.de/international/...792189,00.html

                Their trick is easy;
                Give loans to Greece, sell billions of dollars worth weapons, jet fighters, war ships. The money will already be paid back by IMF, German taxpayers and eventually by the poor Greek people. So, who gets the biggest profit in the end? Ofc the French and German war industry barons.
                Last edited by Onur; 10-19-2011, 03:17 PM.

                Comment

                • Coolski
                  Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 747

                  they'll probably be using the tanks against germany when they come to take some islands
                  - Секој чоек и нација има можност да успеат колку шо си дозволуваат. Нема изговор.
                  - Every human and nation has the ability to be as great or as weak as they allow themselves to be. No excuses.

                  Comment

                  • Soldier of Macedon
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 13670

                    Macedonia listed by the acronym in the EU, Macedonia begging to enter the EU. Idiot politicans.
                    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13670


                      Hundreds of youths smashed and looted stores in central Athens and clashed with riot police during a massive anti-government rally against painful new austerity measures that won initial parliamentary approval in a vote Wednesday night.

                      The rioting came on the first day of a 48-hour nationwide general strike that brought services in much of Greece to a standstill, grounding flights for hours, leaving ferries tied up in port and shutting down customs offices, stores and banks.

                      More than 100,000 people took to the streets of the Greek capital to demonstrate against the austerity bill, which includes new tax hikes, further pension and salary cuts, the suspension on reduced pay of 30,000 public servants and the suspension of collective labor contracts.

                      Creditors have demanded the measures before they give Greece more funds from a $152.11 billion package of bailout loans from other eurozone countries and the International Monetary Fund. Greece says it will run out of money in mid-November without the $11 billion installment.

                      But Greek citizens said they already are reeling from more than one-and-a-half years of austerity measures.

                      "We just can’t take it any more. There is desperation, anger and bitterness," said Nikos Anastasopoulos, head of a workers’ union for an Athens municipality, as he joined the demonstration early in the day.

                      The bill won initial approval in the 300-member Parliament late Wednesday, with 154 deputies voting in favor on principle and 141 against. A second vote, on the bill’s articles, is due Thursday. Only after that procedure will the bill have passed. A communist party-backed union has vowed to encircle Parliament Thursday in an attempt to prevent deputies from entering the building for the procedure.

                      The new measures have even prompted some lawmakers from the governing Socialists to threaten not to vote for at least some of the articles in the bill. But Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos insisted there was no choice but to accept the hardship.
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • makedonche
                        Senior Member
                        • Oct 2008
                        • 3242

                        Ah be yas ke puknam ot chekainje za da puknaje Grcite!
                        On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

                        Comment

                        • George S.
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2009
                          • 10116

                          I'm still waiting for the big bang.
                          "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                          GOTSE DELCEV

                          Comment

                          • makedonche
                            Senior Member
                            • Oct 2008
                            • 3242

                            Originally posted by George S. View Post
                            I'm still waiting for the big bang.
                            George S
                            Moo gredi po blisok sekoi den!
                            On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

                            Comment

                            • Daskalot
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 4345

                              Rumors says that European special police is on the ground in Greece ready to replace the Greek police once they are siding with the people.
                              Macedonian Truth Organisation

                              Comment

                              • Daskalot
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 4345

                                Greece Keeps Border with Macedonia Closed

                                Wednesday, 19 October 2011
                                Passenger and cargo traffic to Greece
                                is interrupted for the third day running
                                Wednesday due to a strike of Greek
                                border services.
                                Calling on information from the
                                Macedonian border services, the Auto-
                                Moto Union of Macedonia said no
                                vehicles are let through at border
                                crossings Star Dojran, Bogorodica and
                                Medzitlija.
                                Macedonian companies have lost
                                several million euros during this
                                'strike'. A CEO of a Macedonian
                                Logistics company who wished to
                                remain anonymous beleives the
                                closure is political.
                                "When the border with Greece is
                                closed, our companies suffer each
                                day. They don't suffer at all because
                                at the moment Greece has zero
                                economic activities. We do, hence
                                again the need to find alternative
                                routes."
                                According to announcements, the
                                strike will continue until Friday.
                                Macedonian Truth Organisation

                                Comment

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