Who are the Slavs? - Citations and Sources

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  • Bill77
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2009
    • 4545

    #61
    Originally posted by gintano View Post
    The Ancient Macedonians were A Tribe with Greek culture. Provide prove of those you wrote. I really think that you are dangerous for the exist of your own country.


    The Macedonian
    There was Greek culture and influence in many parts of the world not just Macedonia. Just like there is curently Turkish and Albanian culture and language in Modern Greece.

    Don't forget, Apart from Macedonians and others in the ancient times were called Barbarians (Meaning anyone who is not Greek) we Macedonians were also stereotyped as "Philhellene". (friend of the Greeks).

    Now this is kind of odd to call a Greek a "friend of the Greeks". This title, is normally reserved for non-Greeks.
    http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

    Comment

    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15658

      #62
      Hang on Bill, all assumptions need to be revisited.
      Greeks did not exist at the time so that needs to banished from terminology immediately.
      Hellenes existed, but what culture are we specifically assuming existed?

      Gintano might care to fill us in.
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • Bill77
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2009
        • 4545

        #63
        Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
        Hang on Bill, all assumptions need to be revisited.
        Greeks did not exist at the time so that needs to banished from terminology immediately.
        Hellenes existed, but what culture are we specifically assuming existed?

        Gintano might care to fill us in.
        Good point Risto.
        http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

        Comment

        • George S.
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2009
          • 10116

          #64
          In answer to True Macedonian on book from Barford on The Early SlaVS.I don't have the book but i found a book review of it.Pretty interesting.
          The early Slavs, as Barford points out, have been ill-served by history. Work done in the West tends to dismiss them rather as barbarians, writing off at a stroke the history of half of Europe. This is made easier to do by the absence of written sources, compared to western Europe where writing became widespread earlier, and the frequent ignorance of Western historians of work written in Eastern European languages. Work in the East has been subject to other constraints, most notably pressure from the prevailing political orthodoxies of the time and place of writing - for example, work on the Slavs in Greece is hampered by Greek nationalism refusing to countenance the idea of modern Greece being an ethnic mixture, whilst in the Soviet Union it was difficult to write about foreign, Scandinavian influences in the formation of the Russian state not merely because of nationalist resistance, but because orthodox Marxist thought saw state-formation as the dialectical result of internal developments, not something provoked by outside factors.

          Barford's work here, then, is in effect to bring the Western reader up to speed with the work already done on the subject and to put that in context. What we know about different Slav cultures - more than Western stereotype would have it - is set out in detail, existing works in Eastern European languages synthesised, and the distortions visited on the evidence by political pressures stripped away. It is, perhaps inevitably, something of a dry read for the non-specialist. As Barford points out, for a pre-literate society we are dependent on archeological study of material remains, and there are whole areas of human experience for which these cannot help. Stripping off nationalist or political myth-making, too, means that whole areas of history become more tentative, and what we make of scattered bits of evidence is far less certain. This is unlikely to be a favourite with the general reader - anything about analysis of pottery types is probably a turn-off - but it sums up the debate so far for the Western reader, and provides an intriguing insight into the ill-known history of areas of Europe now, as they were a thousand years ago, integrating with the West after years either of isolation or of facing in another direction.
          "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
          GOTSE DELCEV

          Comment

          • I of Macedon
            Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 222

            #65
            Just thought I would tie some threads together too make things easier in finding similar information.


            Eastern Europe and the dispute of the Slavic origins


            A history of Eastern Europe crisis and change 2nd edition (2007) Robert Bideleux and Ian Jeffries The following are excerpts from pages 137-39 of the book noted. The much disputed origins of the slavic ‘peoples’.... In truth all that can be stated with any certainty is that by the tenth century AD a people or


            Slavs and the Societas christiana principle



            Slavic Lingua Franca



            The making of Slavs - Florin Curta

            No need to sit in the shade, because we stand under our own sun

            Comment

            • TrueMacedonian
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2009
              • 3810

              #66



              and check out who Professor Geary states for suggested reading when it concerns the Slavs;



              None other than Florin Curta. I recommend people pick up Geary's book. It is an eye opener to say the least.
              Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

              Comment

              • Pelister
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 2742

                #67
                The Slavic speakers of today are the descendants of the "barbarians" of the ancient Roman and Greek world.

                Comment

                • indigen
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2009
                  • 1558

                  #68
                  Catholic Encyclopedia 1912 - Original home is in the countries along the Danube....

                  Consequently if we were to follow strictly the written historical authorities, of which a number are very trustworthy, we would be obliged to support the theory that the original home of the Slavs is in the countries along the Danube and on the Adriatic coast.



                  Original home and migrations

                  There are two theories in regard to the original home of the Slavs, and these theories are in sharp opposition to each other. One considers the region of the Danube as the original home of the Slavs, whence they spread northeast over the Carpathians as far as the Volga River, Lake Ilmen, and the Caspian Sea. The other theory regards the districts between the Vistula and the Dnieper as their original home, whence they spread southwest over the Carpathians to the Balkans and into the Alps, and towards the west across the Oder and the Elbe.

                  The ancient Kiev chronicle, erroneously ascribed to the monk Nestor, is the earliest authority quoted for the theory that the original home of the Slavs is to be sought in the region of the Danube. Here in detail is related for the first time how the Slavs spread from the lower Danube to all the countries occupied later by them. The Noricans and Illyrians are declared to be Slavs, and Andronikos and the Apostle Paul are called Apostles to the Slavs because they laboured in Illyria and Pannocia. This view was maintained by the later chroniclers and historical writers of all Slavonic peoples, as the Pole Kadlubek, "Chronika pol." (1206), Boguchwal (d. 1253), Dlugos, Matej Miechowa, Decius, and others. Among the Czechs, this theory was supported by Kozmaz (d. 1125), Dalimir (d.1324), Johann Marignola (1355-1362), Pribik Pulkava (1374), and V. Hajek (1541). The Russians also developed their theories from the statements of their first chronicler, while the Greek Laonikos Harkondilos of the fifteenth century did not commit himself to this view. The southern Slavs have held this theory from the earliest period up to the present time with the evident intention to base on it their claims to the Church Slavonic in the Liturgy. At an early period, in the letter of Pope John X (914-29) to the Croatian Ban Tomislav and the Sachlumian ruler Mihael, there is a reference to the prevalent tradition that St. Jerome invented the Slavonic alphabet. This tradition maintained itself through the succeeding centuries, finding supporters even outside these countries, and was current at Rome itself. Consequently if we were to follow strictly the written historical authorities, of which a number are very trustworthy, we would be obliged to support the theory that the original home of the Slavs is in the countries along the Danube and on the Adriatic coast.

                  Comment

                  • Daskalot
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 4345

                    #69
                    Thank you very much for sharing this information Indigen.
                    Macedonian Truth Organisation

                    Comment

                    • Onur
                      Senior Member
                      • Apr 2010
                      • 2389

                      #70
                      Originally posted by Bratot View Post
                      Herodotus’ theory, much criticised by subsequent historians, states that the Etruscans emigrated from the ancient region of Lydia, on what is now the southern coast of Turkey, because of a long-running famine. Half the population was sent by the king to look for a better life elsewhere, says his account, and sailed from Smyrna (now Izmir) until they reached Umbria in Italy.

                      “We think that our research provides convincing proof that Herodotus was right”, says Professor Piazza, “and that the Etruscans did indeed arrive from ancient Lydia. However, to be 100% certain we intend to sample other villages in Tuscany, and also to test whether there is a genetic continuity between the ancient Etruscans and modern-day Tuscans. This will have to be done by extracting DNA from fossils; this has been tried before but the technique for doing so has proved to be very difficult.”


                      I know the studies and the notes of Heredotus about this since "Izmir" is my hometown

                      I had this link on my bookmaks;
                      For modern day DNA samples, we chose the Basques as representative of western Europe, the Turks as representative of the eastern Mediterranean region, Karelians and Volga Finns as representative of northeastern Europe, and Egyptians and Algerians as representative of North Africa. Etruscan specimens in this study are ∼2,500 years old.

                      The shortest genetic distances between the Etruscan and modern populations are with Tuscans (FST=0.036; P=.0017) and Turks (FST=0.037; P=.0001). Other southern and eastern Mediterranean populations also showing relatively close genetic relationships. In the MDS plot, the Etruscans fall out of an unstructured cluster comprising most European and Caucasus populations, including the Turks. In particular, the Turkish component in their gene pool appears three times as large as in the other populations.

                      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1181945/




                      Also the famous Roman legend concerning the foundation of Rome "Romulus and Remus" which traditionally believed to be an Etruscan legend shows similarity with the legend of "Asena" of Caucasus people.




                      Last edited by Onur; 04-08-2010, 10:35 AM.

                      Comment

                      • Serdarot
                        Member
                        • Feb 2010
                        • 605

                        #71
                        Originally posted by mail2onur View Post
                        ...

                        Also the famous Roman legend concerning the foundation of Rome "Romulus and Remus" which traditionally believed to be an Etruscan legend shows similarity with the legend of "Asena" of Caucasus people.




                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asena
                        also with the story of Zeus and Amalthea / AdaManthea

                        and the stories of Asena are perfect "Metafora" for what realy happened many times ^^

                        the wounded / ill / tired Macedonian Soldiers were "addopted" by female Turkish and other Asiatic "Wolverines"

                        Originally posted by Pelister View Post
                        The Slavic speakers of today are the descendants of the "barbarians" of the ancient Roman and Greek world.
                        well, particulary.

                        the "south slavs" , including us, the Macedonians, speak language that is very close / very related with many slavic languages.

                        And we were surely not "barbarians" for the Greeks and the Romans
                        Last edited by Serdarot; 04-08-2010, 10:38 AM.
                        Bratot:
                        Никој не е вечен, а каузава не е нова само е адаптирана на новите услови и ќе се пренесува и понатаму.

                        Comment

                        • Onur
                          Senior Member
                          • Apr 2010
                          • 2389

                          #72
                          Originally posted by Serdarot View Post
                          also with the story of Zeus and Amalthea / AdaManthea

                          and the stories of Asena are perfect "Metafora" for what realy happened many times ^^

                          the wounded / ill / tired Macedonian Soldiers were "addopted" by female Turkish and other Asiatic "Wolverines"

                          Yeah maybe

                          but similarity between "Asena" legend is higher since "Nurturing, caring" object in both legends was a female wolf, not a human.

                          Also the wolves being regarded as "bad, evil animals" in medieval European religious literature, probably because of their struggle between shamanistic Caucasus people who regards wolves as a sacred animal.

                          Also the term "Barbarian" used mostly for everyone who is not Christian, mostly directed to these shamanistic Caucasus societies. For example, Romans was calling German tribes as "barbarians" too before their Christian conversion. Some Europeans today, still calls Turks as "Barbarians" maybe because most of them never converted into Christianity unlike the example of German tribes.
                          Last edited by Onur; 04-08-2010, 11:08 AM.

                          Comment

                          • Serdarot
                            Member
                            • Feb 2010
                            • 605

                            #73
                            about the "Slavs":

                            for those "slav" Christians, who were dislocated / expelled by the Bulgars, meaning 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th century, it is said that they "originate from Macedonia"

                            Risjani, rodom Slavjani, proizhodili iz Makedonii <--- click

                            Originally posted by mail2onur View Post

                            Also the term "Barbarian" used mostly for everyone who is not Christian, mostly directed to these shamanistic Caucasus societies. For example, Romans was calling German tribes as "barbarians" too before their Christian conversion.

                            nice1 on "barbarian" , yes, Germani were called oft barbarians from the romans.

                            btw, about Amalthea and Zeus, Amalthea is a Goat , not a Woman.


                            sometimes there is a diference, but only sometimes (without disrespect toward our females, just a joke )
                            Last edited by Serdarot; 04-08-2010, 11:26 AM.
                            Bratot:
                            Никој не е вечен, а каузава не е нова само е адаптирана на новите услови и ќе се пренесува и понатаму.

                            Comment

                            • TrueMacedonian
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 3810

                              #74
                              550 AD: Procopius, Secret History, 18.

                              Quote:
                              Illyria and all of Thrace, that is, from the Ionian Gulf to the suburbs of Constantinople, including Greece and the Chersonese, were overrun by the Huns, Sklaves and Antes, almost every year, from the time when Justinian took over the Roman Empire; and intolerable things they did to the inhabitants. For in each of these incursions, I should say, more than two hundred thousand Romans were slain or enslaved, so that all this country became a desert like that of Scythia................neither the Persians nor the Saracens, the Huns or the Sklaves or the rest of the barbarians, were able to withdraw from Roman territory undamaged. In their inroads, and still more in their sieges of cities and in battles, where they prevailed over opposing forces, they shared in disastrous losses quite as much.
                              One thing is noticeable in Procopius' The Secret History and that is that he never once mentions any Slavs moving into Macedonia. Strange isn't it?
                              I recently read The Secret History (haven't read any of his other works,,, yet) and I do notice that he mentions Justin's wife was a Barbarian (what kind of 'Barbarian'?) and her real name was Lupecina. Any ideas on this name and what kind of origins it may entail?



                              Very little is known of the life of Justin I's wife Euphemia. Her original name was Lupicina, a name which may have been associated with the occupation of prostitute.[[1]] Certainly her origins were humble: as Procopius relates (Anecdota/Secret History 6.17), she had been born a barbarian and a slave. Before marrying Justin she had been the concubine of her previous owner.2]]
                              and the footnotes state the following;

                              [[1]] Vasiliev, Justin I, p.61 and n.39, connecting the name with the Latin lupa (she-wolf) and lupanar (a brothel).

                              [[2]]As Daube, `The marriage of Justinian and Theodora', pp.385-6 notes, there were legal obstacles to a member of the aristocracy marrying a former slave. He suggests therefore that Lupicina was granted the status of freeborn in order to legitimise their union. This must have occurred during the reign of Anastasius, when Justin's career prospered.
                              I don't think Lupecina or Lupicina had something to do with a brothel or prostitution. What do you guys think?
                              Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                              Comment

                              • Risto the Great
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 15658

                                #75
                                [Lup]ecina ---> Ljub = love

                                I would suggest "love" in a name is very possible.
                                Risto the Great
                                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                                Comment

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