Albanianization in Macedonia

[Niko777]

If the new census proves that Albanians are under 20% in municipalities where they were upto now listed as 25% or above, do you think the Macedonian government will remove the special rights that Albanians have enjoyed under the Ohrid FA?

In my opinion, I doubt that the government will change anything. When those special rights were put into place, it was like they were set in stone. For example, the government has been investing a lot of resources in making Skopje bilingual, a city where Albanians just barely made the 20% mark in the last census. If their numbers drop in this next census, is the government actually going to remove the Albanian signage from streets, or cancel other services offered in the Albanian language? I just don't see it happening, largely because they fear the reaction of the Albanians. Just like how they've been letting the Albanians build hundreds of mosques without any proper documentation or permits so that they preserve the "ethnic harmony" between Macedonians and Albanians.

[Soldier of Macedon]

If the new census proves that Albanians are under 20% in municipalities where they were upto now listed as 25% or above, do you think the Macedonian government will remove the special rights that Albanians have enjoyed under the Ohrid FA?

In my opinion, I doubt that the government will change anything. When those special rights were put into place, it was like they were set in stone. For example, the government has been investing a lot of resources in making Skopje bilingual, a city where Albanians just barely made the 20% mark in the last census. If their numbers drop in this next census, is the government actually going to remove the Albanian signage from streets, or cancel other services offered in the Albanian language? I just don't see it happening, largely because they fear the reaction of the Albanians. Just like how they've been letting the Albanians build hundreds of mosques without any proper documentation or permits so that they preserve the "ethnic harmony" between Macedonians and Albanians.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you if we judge by past actions. The problem now is, even moderate Albanians will not want to relinquish these "special rights", which means Gruevski is creating even more extremists in the long run.

[Vangelovski]

If the new census proves that Albanians are under 20% in municipalities where they were upto now listed as 25% or above, do you think the Macedonian government will remove the special rights that Albanians have enjoyed under the Ohrid FA?

In my opinion, I doubt that the government will change anything. When those special rights were put into place, it was like they were set in stone. For example, the government has been investing a lot of resources in making Skopje bilingual, a city where Albanians just barely made the 20% mark in the last census. If their numbers drop in this next census, is the government actually going to remove the Albanian signage from streets, or cancel other services offered in the Albanian language? I just don't see it happening, largely because they fear the reaction of the Albanians. Just like how they've been letting the Albanians build hundreds of mosques without any proper documentation or permits so that they preserve the "ethnic harmony" between Macedonians and Albanians.

I think the government will avoid that situation by ensuring that the Albanians do not drop below 20% - much like the previous census.

[Helvetia]

This guy was certainly NOT Ozimak, because his answers were short and precise. An overall interesting case that reminded me more of users like Ivo or Currency Trader, though he had some unique and bizarre ideas. It's a pity, you are all a little crazy but moderators should restrain the members instead of fuelling things without a reason.

By the way, I miss Ozimak and he certainly did not deserve his mistreatment, especially since he was a very old member.

A propaganda forum (any propaganda forum) is of course an oxymoron, since freedom of speech is against the effective promotion of very restricted ideas, but some balance can be found.

Vangelovski (and even you Risto the Great) calm down!!

Thank you for the kind words. I am a first-time user here and I didn't expect to be attacked with such hostility for my views. Let me clarify my views a bit. I believe in a Macedonia where there can be interethnic harmony but not at the expense of our sovereignty. For example, the bilingualising of our country hurts our sovereignty. There should be only one official language and that's Macedonian. The Albanians are welcome to learn Macedonian and assimilate. If they want to use Albanian as a state language then they should hop over the border back to Albania.

Lastly, it is certainly disappointing to see Gruevski making all the concessions to appease the Albanian populace but I hope they are just temporary.

[George S.]

i wonder if people know what the albanians were up to with the cewnsus.They were hammer & tongs trying to falsify the census to show that there are ,more albanians than macedonians so they can qualify to get the special treatment.

[Niko777]

Janevska Quits: Albanians are Fabricating the Census Again

- In Macedonia underway is yet another fabricated census. My Albanian colleagues have undertaken actions which have literally brought zero confidence that this census once and for all represent the reality in Macedonia. I don't know what the political parties in Macedonia are doing, however the information from the field for several days is that the Albanians are working very hard on falsifying yet another census." stated the head of the Census Bureau, Vesna Janevska.
No one is certain why there is a huge number of ethnic Albanian census bureau workers (3,700)?

Janevska has stated that the ethnic Albanians were instructed to provide 'photocopies of driving licenses of people who do not live in Macedonia, and they will be counted in the census. To top it all off, Janevska says many of these photocopies belong to nonexistent ethnic Albanians, which obviously means they will be forged.
- Because of this apparent work to provide once again unrealistic numbers of residents of the Albanian ethnicum in Macedonia, this census will have zero credibility, thus I resign from my post" said Janevska at a press conference.

The Government is thinking of appointing Slobodanka Gievska as the head. She already works at the Census bureau.
Even the name of Artan Grubi, known for getting in trouble with the police is mentioned as becoming a member of the Census Bureau.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/19258/2/

[Risto the Great]

More of that DPmNE magic. Single handedly creating a multiethnic state out of a fictional statistical game.

[Big Bad Sven]

If the new census proves that Albanians are under 20% in municipalities where they were upto now listed as 25% or above, do you think the Macedonian government will remove the special rights that Albanians have enjoyed under the Ohrid FA?

In my opinion, I doubt that the government will change anything. When those special rights were put into place, it was like they were set in stone. For example, the government has been investing a lot of resources in making Skopje bilingual, a city where Albanians just barely made the 20% mark in the last census. If their numbers drop in this next census, is the government actually going to remove the Albanian signage from streets, or cancel other services offered in the Albanian language? I just don't see it happening, largely because they fear the reaction of the Albanians. Just like how they've been letting the Albanians build hundreds of mosques without any proper documentation or permits so that they preserve the "ethnic harmony" between Macedonians and Albanians.

We already know that the piss weak and spineless macedonian government wont even do anything or stand up to shiptars breaking basic rues of the law.... i think the more important question is what will the macedonians in macedonia do if this is to be the case (which from recent reports is true and shiptars are playing with census figures)?

We get huge turn outs to celebrate finishing fourth in basketball on the streets of Skopje, Tetovo and Gostivar (albanian "dominated" areas) were macedonians sing patriotic songs and wave the ventillator with pride, and we turned out in large numbers in prilep to sing serbian songs and drink beer with Ceca, but when it comes to defending what is right and standing up for basic human rights and to stop simple laws to be broken we go missing and claim its all too hard.

Its shameful what is happening in macedonia, and the worst part is that macedonians are the ones who are at fault, we deserve to be in this fucked up situation for being so laid back and always walking on egg shells and hoping the problem will go away, while the shiptar is always plotting and planning and always 2 steps ahead of us.

[lavce pelagonski]

CENSUS: Truth Always Hurts, Bedzeti Quits

The vice president of the State Census Office Abdulmenaf Bedzeti had quit his post few hours ago, and two days before the Census, MINA finds.

It is expected that all ethnic Albanians will quit their posts in what is reported to be a manufactured ‘revolt’ over the EU census laws.



Namely, the State Census office has stated according to Macedonian and EU Eurostat laws: only Macedonian citizens will be counted, and not individuals who are citizens/residents of other countries and where Macedonia is not their permanent/primary residence. According to both EU and Macedonian laws, these citizens get counted in the countries where they primarily reside. For instance, a Macedonian living in Germany as a resident/citizen will not be counted in the Macedonian census because he/she will get counted in the German census regardless whether they show up in Macedonia once a year to visit.



Understandbly, EUROSTAT needs to have official information from each country regarding the census, and not have residents be counted twice, three times across the continent. This way the true picture of the population is maintained.


The Census law is an official Law for everyone else, but not for the Albanian community. They feel Macedonian and EU laws should be amended and aligned to meet their needs and demands.

This fake Albanian ‘revolt’ also stems from the fact they will not meet their 25% from the 2001 massively fabricated census, according to both internal and external organizations.

The 2001 Census was poorly fabricated in a way that created hundreds of problems for Macedonia for its upcoming elections where virtually 95% of the population was allowed to vote?!?! According to the 2001 census, Macedonia has little to no people under the age of 18?



But this is not the disastrous 2001. Today it’s 2011. Macedonia has progressed leaps and bounds in the last 10 years.There are laws and regulations put in place that must be respected by everyone. Yes, this means you too, the Albanian minority. No need to pout and pretend to be unhappy, everyone knows that you aren’t 25% of the population.



Long gone are the days when Albanians from Kosovo got counted in Kosovo, Albania, Macedonia.
If you still like to have your ethnicum counted twice/three times as in 2001, I suggest you visit Tirana and get counted there, since the Albanian Government has decided they will count only Albanians and not the minorities. //Gorazd Velkovski

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/19256/2/

[lavce pelagonski]

Thaci: Any Albanian who has visited Macedonia should be in Census

Thursday, 29 September 2011

There are two days left for the census to begin, and ethnic Albanians have pushed the panick button their true numbers will be revealed! Their politicians have issued 100's of statements in the last 24 hours of who should be counted in the census (living, dead, non citizens, not in Macedonia...)!



- People from Kosovo, Switzerland, North America who don't live in Macedonia nor are citizens, but visit it from time to time should be counted in the upcoming census, says DPA's leader Menduh Thaci, marking the n-th time he has said something incredibly foolish. But then again, Thaci wouldn't be happy if all Albanians worldwide get counted in Macedonia's census.



Meanwhile, official Tirana has decided it will not count minorities, while the Macedonians, Serbs and Greeks who live there will be counted only if they say they are "Albanian". How clever!

Anyone see a difference between Albania's and Macedonia's census!?!?



The Albanians in Macedonia have been panicking for almost a year now, ever since the census was scheduled. They know the inflated 25% are very far from their actual number in the country, hence the requests to count people who don't live in Macedonia, as ludicrous as this sounds!

MINA's Gorazd Velkovski has a simple question: Why isn't the Macedonian Government counting the Macedonians living in Australia (250,000), in Canada (300,000), in the US (200,000), across Europe (200,000). All of them are visiting Macedonia. They all have Macedonian passports! Count them!

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/19251/48/

[lavce pelagonski]

Albania: Census begins

01. October 2011. | 10:34 10:36

Source: Alsat

Few hours before the beginning of the census, the government asked all Albanians to take part in the registration process, regardless of the critics made by different groups of people.

Few hours before the beginning of the census, the government asked all Albanians to take part in the registration process, regardless of the critics made by different groups of people.

Director of INSTAT, Ines Nurja asked Albanians to be opened toward the employees that will work for the registration of the population. Even the representative of EUROSTAT, Pieter Everaers asked that the census should be transparent and it should be perceived only as statistics.

“During the preparatory period, since January of the last year until the last week, we have been debating and we have had complaints from different groups. Today is the moment to leave these things aside and to cooperate in this major project for the Republic of Albania. There will not be administrative measures or fines, but it is an individual obligation it is an appeal to cooperate; it is a contribution that everyone gives for himself, for his family and his country,” said Minister of Innovation, Genc Pollo.

“Open your houses to INSTAT’s employees. They have a very important mission; they will gather data, which will be used by all of us. The census will give us a clear vision of the economic-social-cultural development of all groups of people in Albania: young people, children, females, males; it will also show us the dynamic aspect of the development of the population in Albania,” said the Director of INSTAT, Ines Nurja.

“These are the recommendations of the European Commission, which should be followed in details by the candidate and aspiring countries. After that, we can make comparisons. The census is very important to understand the health condition, the income, education and future plans of your population, said EUROSTAT’s representative, Pieter Everaers.

Macedonian Minority boycotts to census

The Chairman of the Macedonian Alliance for Integration, Edmont Themelko confirmed for AS the boycott of the Macedonian minority for the census of population and houses. This decision was taken because the Macedonian minority is penalized if it declares its origin, considering that it does not appear in the register of the Albanian state.

“Article 20 of the law on the census does not allow the Albanian citizens with Macedonian origin to freely declare their Macedonian origin, which is not recognized by the country. If they declare themselves as Macedonians, they will be fined to Lek 100,000,” said Themelko.

By enlisting the areas that are inhabited by the Macedonian minority, Themelko considers the law as anti-constitutional. According to him, the statistics of Albania are based on the registration of the population during the previous system, which did not include a question on ethnic belonging.

“These citizens, who have a Macedonian origin, are not recognized by the Albanian country because at the moment, the statistics of the Albanian country belong to the previous system; no registration that included ethnic belonging was made during the period of democracy, where each citizen freely declared the ethnic group he belongs to,” said Themelko.

The census is expected to begin at October 1, regardless of all polemics that were caused by its adoption among minority groups and the civil society.

http://www.emg.rs/en/news/region/165220.html

[George S.]

i'm not surprised at all about what the albanians are upto.THey are upto no good falsifying the census & the govt lets them do what they want,this is part of the reason for a civil rvolt.

[Pelister]

The Albanians are spending billions of dollars in Western Macedonia in building Albanian only suburbs, and towns. They are doing this because the pressure to assimilate is removed, and the implementation of the Framework Agreement gives them all of the local power to govern their own affairs.

Here is an example, in Debar, where Albanians have spent hundreds of millions. on two huge developments.

http://www.myspace.com/45987278

Scroll down to the third page and see the pictures. See the same pictures using google maps and google earth for Debar.

[ProMKD]

Notice the shiptar writing on the new health cards. WTF! This better be optional like the passports!!!!

Из*да*де*ни се пр*ви*те 50 ил*ја*ди елек*трон*ски здравс*тве*ни кар*тич*ки. Се ком*пле*ти*ра до*ку*мен*та*ци*ја*та за из*да*ва*ње 100 ил*ја*ди кар*тич*ки за јав*на*та ад*ми*нис*тра*ци*ја, а во ме*ѓув*ре*ме тоа се пра*ви и за нев*ра*бо*те*ни*те - ин*фор*ми*ра*ше Ма*ја Пар*на*џи*е*ва-Змеј*ков*ска, ди*рек*тор за Фон*дот за здравс*тве*но оси*гу*ру*ва*ње.

Таа нај*а*ви де*ка до сре*ди*на 2012 го*ди*на, оче*ку*ва*ња*та се 80 про*цен*ти од гра*ѓа*ни*те на Ма*ке*до*ни*ја да има*ат елек*трон*ски здравс*тве*ни кар*тич*ки.

Но*ви*от про*ект за прис*тап од*нос*но за ус*лу*ги*те на др*жав*ни*те ин*сти*ту*ции кон гра*ѓа*ни*те и фир*ми*те, со ак*цент на ак*цис*ки*от план за пос*те*пе*но мо*дер*ни*зи*ра*ње на ус*лу*ги*те што ги ну*ди Фон*дот за здравс*тве*но оси*гу*ру*ва*ње, бе*ше ед*на од точ*ки*те на днев*ни*от ред на пос*лед*на*та сед*ни*ца на Еко*ном*ски*от со*вет.

Ди*рек*тор*ка*та на Фон*дот ин*фор*ми*ра и де*ка ФЗО ве*ќе е елек*трон*ски по*вр*зан со Уп*ра*ва*та за јав*ни при*хо*ди и за ис*пла*та на бо*ле*ду*ва*ња, по*ро*дил*но и дру*ги на*до*мес*то*ци, но и за из*да*ва*ње си*ни кар*то*ни, со што е овоз*мо*же*но ав*то*мат*ско ос*тва*ру*ва*ње на овие пра*ва

http://www.dnevnik.com.mk/default.asp?ItemID=D7131E02E1D65E4292ECCB8328B5365A

EDIT:
How come the forum won't accept my copy/paste of cyrillic?

[Niko777]

2010 statistics for Macedonia:

12658 Macedonian newborns (1.3% increase from 2009)
7888 Albanian newborns (5.8% increase from 2009)

It looks like Albanians continue to have a higher birthrate than Macedonians, and their birthrate is growing faster then the Macedonians'.