The Macedonian Minority in Bulgaria

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  • George S.
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 10116

    The fact is chiche you don't have sense of beleif.What do you think is the truth.In all the things that's happening there can be one set of truth either you are for the cause or your not.Either you are pro macedonian or not you are anti.So if you don't beleive on anything then you aren't going to contribute much to macedonia.If you are a realist well you could start a revolution & put macedonia on track.It's very easy to work out who is telling the truth just read what they have accomplished in macedonia.Don't give them the automatic stamp of approval,query everything don't assume it's right.The truth is the straight & narrow path that leads to the truth not a wide various opinion truths.Truth cannot be bargained for or to say near enough is good enough.
    "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
    GOTSE DELCEV

    Comment

    • George S.
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2009
      • 10116

      Reasons why Macedonia can't have normal relations with Bulgaria

      Reasons why Macedonia can't have normal relations with Bulgaria







      Although one can certainly come up with several fold more reasons why Skopje and Sofia have not been able to normalize their relations, here are ten that come to mind right from the start.

      1. Macedonians at home spent majority of their WW2 fighting against Bulgarian soldiers. Macedonian partisans engaged the Germans mostly in major battles outside of Macedonia, in other parts of the then Yugoslavia.

      2. In 1913 Macedonia was split in 3 parts (Vardar, Pirin, Aegean). Due to the split, the remains of one of the greatest Macedonian revolutionaries Goce Delcev (died 1903) found itself on the 'other' side, in present Bulgaria. Official Sofia in 1946 sent Delcev's remains to the rightful owners, the Government of Macedonia in Skopje. Today official Sofia claims him as "Bulgarian". Why give him up if he is your own, and equally important, why claim him 60 years later?

      3. Bulgaria while protecting their Jewish minority, was responsible for rounding up and sending to concentration camps the Jewish population from Macedonia and Thrace (present Greece). Macedonia lost 98% of its Jewish population. All of the gold, art and jewelry was stolen by Bulgarian soldiers and sent to Sofia. Just a fortnight ago (October 7th), Jewish leaders from Israel told the Bulgarian Government in Sofia that "saving your own Jews but murdering others still makes you a murderer". There goes Sofia's hope that everyone has amnesia.

      4. Official Bulgarian census in 1946 listed 252,908 Macedonians living in Bulgaria. Official census in 1956 somehow listed less, 187,789 ethnic Macedonians, concentrated in the Pirin region. In 2011, official Sofia counted 1,600 Macedonians! For the next census, Sofia will follow Athens and claim it has no minorities.

      5. When visiting Bulgaria, in particularly major holiday destinations, one is able to view dozens of TV channels from all of Bulgaria's neighbors. The only channels missing (scrambled) are those from Macedonia.

      6. Just like in Greece, Bulgaria too does not allow Macedonians to register a political party and take part in Parliament elections. The Macedonians have taken Bulgaria to Human Rights court in Strasbourg twice, won both times, but still cannot register their party.

      7. Bulgaria first recognized Macedonia, at the same time did not recognize the language which automatically created tensions between the two countries.

      8. Bulgaria wanted to help Macedonia during the Greek embargo and opened its port in Burgas to Macedonian companies. This nice gesture was conditioned - official Skopje must stop its communication with Macedonians in Bulgaria.

      9. After 2000, Bulgaria decided to create a "minority" in Macedonia, Serbia, Moldavia (even Albania) by issuing passports and citizenships to Macedonians. According to Macedonians and Serbs who have received Bulgarian passports, the entire procedure was done in less than two months involving little to no documentation at all.

      10. A typical court case of divorced parents seeking custody of their daughter turned into a circus case because the mother (Spaska Mitrova) had recently received a Bulgarian passport. Mitrova's new passport meant the bombastic arrival of two dozen journalists from Sofia at a small court house in Gevgelija to cover the case and cheer on Spaska Mitrova.
      "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
      GOTSE DELCEV

      Comment

      • DedoAleko
        Member
        • Jun 2009
        • 969

        The problems with the bolvars are yet to columinate.

        google translate:

        Big NO from Bulgaria to Macedonia to join EU


        Can not give evrosertifikat government in Skopje, which systematically imposing an ideology of hatred towards Bulgaria. In the Republic of Macedonia has shown one-sided interpretation of history in a strongly nationalistic spirit, discriminating against citizens of Bulgarian feeling and there are many administrative barriers for Bulgarian business accused Plevneliev before Fillet


        Bulgaria will block Macedonian евроинтегративен process if the European Commission does not push Skopje to work on good neighborly relations with Sofia. After Athens, and our eastern neighbor present deed authenticated "red lines" to neighbors. Bulgarian President Rosen Plevneliev took advantage of the meeting with the EU Commissioner for Enlargement and Neighbourhood Policy Stefan Fule accused Macedonia of its own way interprets the history and leading anti-Bulgarian policy, according to Bulgarian media. According to some of the media, in front of the high guest from Brussels, Plevneliev said a big NO to Macedonia's membership in the EU, because of its policy towards Bulgaria. Said that the Union should take into account the Bulgarian-Macedonian relations ahead of a possible EU membership of the country.
        - We can not give evrosertifikat government in Skopje, which systematically imposing an ideology of hatred towards Bulgaria. Authorities in Macedonia will unlock perspective evrochlenstvo, through propaganda and marketing campaigns, but through genuine reform and neighborhood activities. Do not deny their European perspective, help and support, but they still are not ready, said Plevneliev and added that strategically important for long-term stability in the Balkans, Skopje begin to apply European approach towards its neighbors, without provocation, without pretense and without manipulation.

        Plevneliev claimed before Fillet Macedonia discriminates against citizens who declare themselves Bulgarians and even hampers Bulgarian businesses in the country.
        - European integration is a guarantor of security, stability and prosperity in the region and that there is no alternative. This support is not unconditional, it is based on the overall fulfillment of membership criteria, and one of the most important of them is good neighborly relations. In the Republic of Macedonia has shown one-sided interpretation of history in a strongly nationalistic spirit, discriminating against citizens of Bulgarian feeling and there are many administrative barriers for Bulgarian business. Bulgaria has always supported the accession of the Western Balkan countries to the EU, said Plevneliev.

        Bulgarian President does not agree with neither the EC report on Macedonia. Sharply criticized before Fillet, arguing that the country's progress report does not reflect the role of Macedonia in regional cooperation and the state of bilateral relations between Bulgaria and Macedonia.

        Its head of state supported and Bulgarian MPs from the Foreign Policy and European Affairs. Consider that the Macedonian government has a long way to go to fulfill the basic criteria for the EU Neighbourhood and if this problem is not raised when you start negotiations with the EU, they can turn into a "time bomb", reports Bulgarian BTV .
        - Can a country strongly wants to join the EU and NATO, and in both directions to be obstacles. On the one hand does not keep good relations with Bulgaria, on the other hand with Greece. Macedonian authorities have to keep a policy that is not planting the anti-Bulgarian feelings among children that they have a negative attitude towards Bulgaria, DPS said Unal Lotvi. (VS)

        Enlargement Satisfied words Plevneliev
        Fillet: Integration is the best tool for dealing with nationalism
        European Commissioner for Enlargement and Neighbourhood Policy Stefan Fule was not satisfied with the words of the Bulgarian President Rosen Plevneliev. Fule said the blockades are not the solution, but integration is the best way to deal with nationalism. Stefan Fule agreed that problems should be solved before the receipt of EU countries, but stressed that the negotiation process should not be held hostage to these problems.
        - We all know that FYR Macedonia have to wait a long time before a closed door, waiting for NATO and EU membership. I'm one of those people who firmly believe that it is not good to leave the partners long wait. I believe that integration is the best way to deal with nationalism. There is no doubt, nor to me, nor the European Commission about the importance of Bulgaria to expand. I am here to try to better figure out the interests and fears of Bulgaria. I am here to determine how the Commission could help Bulgaria to open its potential in terms of the neighborhood policy. I'd like to talk and good-neighborly relations in terms of content to meet the Western Balkan countries, so that all neighbors here to feel comfortable in their place, 'returned Fillet Plevneliev.

        izvor: http://vecer.com.mk/default.asp?Item...E398A71AA74BC1

        Comment

        • DedoAleko
          Member
          • Jun 2009
          • 969

          President Ivanov answers Sofia's request on "Joint" Holidays


          A Bulgarian request sent by its president Rosen Plevneliev to his counterpart in Macedonia on celebrating 'joint' holidays was answered by president Ivanov, revealed his cabinet earlier today .

          The Macedonian president responded to Plevneliev by giving him three dates which Macedonia would consider celebrating jointly with Bulgaria:
          - Europe Day
          - Day Bulgaria recognized Macedonia
          - Day Bulgaria and Macedonia established diplomatic relationship

          The cabinet of the Macedonian president informed the public of Ivanov's response.
          President Ivanov's recommendations to official Sofia are focused on the past, present and the future.
          "History ideologization and replacements of facts, as you define them, are a dangerous tool which if abused by politicians for short term interests can cause significat damage, therefore it is best this question is left alone, to the historians", explains Ivanov in his letter.

          According to president Ivanov, the entire energy needs to be focused on bettering the present and creating a better future for the generations yet to come as this was an obligation not just for the citizens, rather the region. Ivanov wrote to Plevneliev he is assured that with joint effort, both Skopje and Sofia will strengthen their relationship.

          The Bulgarian president in his letter called for turning the good political declarations into actual activities, to work together for the stability and prosperity of both countries, together. Plevneliev also asked for joint celebration of historical events.

          Despite Plevneliev's letter for friendship, during the past two days the Bulgarian president complained to EU Enlargement Commissioner Stefan Fule about Macedonia's nationalistic rhetoric and discrimination towards people with "Bulgarian feelings", as well as the numerous administrative barriers for Bulgarian businesses.

          According to Plevneliev, the EU report on Macedonia was not satisfactory to official Sofia even though the position of Sofia is that all Western Balkan nations should join the EU. Plevneliev added that all states joining the EU must possess the European core values.

          izvor: http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/22122/1/

          edit: If the admin thinks my last 2 posts don't belong here,do move them in some other thread.
          Last edited by DedoAleko; 11-01-2012, 07:48 AM.

          Comment

          • Risto the Great
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 15658

            The Macedonian president responded to Plevneliev by giving him three dates which Macedonia would consider celebrating jointly with Bulgaria:
            - Europe Day
            - Day Bulgaria recognized Macedonia
            - Day Bulgaria and Macedonia established diplomatic relationship
            A moment of clarity.
            Risto the Great
            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

            Comment

            • chentovist
              Banned
              • Feb 2012
              • 130

              great response from Ivanov. Well done.

              Comment

              • Vangelovski
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 8531

                Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                A moment of clarity.
                Lets hope he doesn't scramble to "clarify" his comments after he hears that Hillary Clinton won't be visiting (oh the pressure!) and offers up joint Ilinden celebrations or something of the like.
                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                Comment

                • George S.
                  Senior Member
                  • Aug 2009
                  • 10116

                  I don't support any celebrations with bulgaria until such time as it wises up on pirin macedonia..I want full human rights as recognized for the macedonians.Whatever they are entitled to then well worry about celebrations later.I think the bulgarians are simply trying to take the heat of the situation in pirin & pretend everything is ok there it's still not.
                  "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                  GOTSE DELCEV

                  Comment

                  • DedoAleko
                    Member
                    • Jun 2009
                    • 969

                    google translate:

                    Storm of reactions in Bulgaria after Ivanov's proposals

                    Will judge according to the works of good neighborly relations, and not according to the letters, said Bulgarian President Plevneliev

                    Proposal of Macedonia jointly celebrated Europe Day is far from what Bulgaria envisioned as a joint celebration dates general, said yesterday the head of the Bulgarian state, Rosen Plevneliev, the idea of ​​President Ivanov.

                    - And why not slavime Gotse Delchev - asks Plevneliev.

                    Being already announced, Ivanov letter to Plevneliev, who asked for a joint celebration of historical events, suggested three ideas: Europe Day, the day when Bulgaria n `admitted or day of the established diplomatic relations between the two countries.

                    Such proposals in the letter caused a storm of reactions in Sofia.

                    According to Plevneliev, letters and ideas for working groups coming from Macedonia is one thing, and what's important to him results, reforms and action, and it results in the interest of good neighborly relations.

                    He, as the Bulgarian media, explained that his yet zavcherashni words and criticism Macedonia actually answer the message he received from Skopje.

                    Ivanov, however, Sochi yesterday said he agreed with the statement of Plevneliev necessary works and said that Macedonian officials are ready with all the neighbors to discuss official meetings for all open questions and to find an answer.

                    - I agree with the statement of the Bulgarian President. Parts are needed. We are ready with all our neighbors to discuss official meetings for all open issues. I hope it will make a future meeting, and not through the media. H `expected future together and we all have to contribute to be part of it - said Ivanov.

                    According to Foreign Minister Nikola Poposki, Ivanov's proposal is a European response because the celebration of Europe Day provides an opportunity to show how countries are committed to the continent's most successful peace project EU.

                    After Ivanov's proposal for a joint celebration of some dates, reacted Bulgarian historian Dimitrov, who says he has long been ready to offer a list of dates for the celebration.

                    - If he sees a man list three dates proposed by Ivanov, will think that Macedonia is a country only since 1991, and we all know that is not so - said Dimitrov, who proposes to jointly celebrate St. Kiril and Methodius and Ilinden.

                    izvor: http://dnevnik.com.mk/default.asp?It...A2B5E2050F6448

                    Comment

                    • The LION will ROAR
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2009
                      • 3231

                      On the brink of civil war, we are revolting against VMRO



                      Christians are to be burned, said a trial of the case "radical Islam"

                      Bulgaria is on the brink of civil war after the collapse of social policy in the country, said deputy chairman of VMRO Angel Djambazki a protest march in front of the court in Pazardzhik, which today look the case for radical Islam.

                      According to him, the Roma population in the neighborhoods on the edge of poverty will be left in this position and will do everything possible to gain any benefits from the state.

                      "The Roma population is the position of the conquest of space between Islamists and Turkish intelligence," he said.

                      In his words, radical Islam is not a religion, it is politics, because either way people who hold this type of religion, had won their religious rights, and this time they will now fight for a place in politics.

                      Nationalists protest peacefully now runs, and he was joined and more citizens.

                      Meanwhile, the Court announced the Protocol of interrogation of witness Secret 005.

                      His testimony related to one of the defendants in the trial - Moza Ahmed Ahmed. The witness stated that he lives in a neighborhood with a mixed population. He wrote that years ago the district had no conflicts, all lived in harmony, but the pressure started about 10 years ago - after the construction of the mosque, "Abu Bekir" in the Roma district of Pazardzhik.

                      The witness tension due to the sermons of Ahmed Ahmed, in which he says that those who are not Muslims should be burned.

                      The witness recalled that years ago Ahmed was convicted of being a Muslim flag waving in the Roma neighborhood in Pazardzhik.

                      During the wedding does say that Christians should be killed and the women and children remain a Muslim and chops: "I bow to those who cut heads faith."

                      The witness - Ahmed Ahmed has 20 associates, who are also known as hit squad. They carried out attacks on Christians, the witness stated as an example a case in which before Easter they attacked a group of young people - Christians and after beating one of the boys was taken to hospital.

                      The witness supporters of Ahmed Ahmed wants state and religious court. They believe that not only Bulgaria and the whole world will become Muslim, ready to put the bombs and shoot, go dressed as the Taliban in Afghanistan. Their Islam has nothing to do with the traditional. They say not to vote in elections because God determines who what to be. The witness claims that they live wealthy without working



                      In his words, radical Islam is not a religion, it is politics, because either way people who hold this type of religion, had won their religious rights, and this time they will now fight for a place in politics
                      Sounds familiar...?
                      The Macedonians originates it, the Bulgarians imitate it and the Greeks exploit it!

                      Comment

                      • The LION will ROAR
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2009
                        • 3231

                        The Macedonians originates it, the Bulgarians imitate it and the Greeks exploit it!

                        Comment

                        • DedoAleko
                          Member
                          • Jun 2009
                          • 969

                          Very interesting coordinated statements by Sofia officials

                          google translate:

                          Parvanov: Sofia not to prevent Macedonia towards EU

                          Let us not go too far and do not hinder Macedonia to the EU because it is short-sighted, said today the former Bulgarian President Georgi Parvanov told Bulgarian National Radio.

                          - More than 20 years as a scientist working as a topic - Macedonia. I own publications, I have a sharp and bitter polemics with fellow historians of Skopje, with politicians, even the president of that country. And I am about to argue, to defend its historical past, its culture of similar outrages that we see in some of the media before. Let us not go too far, do not stop Macedonia to the EU because it is not prescient. We stop Macedonians as people close to us with the same origin with which we shared future. Should be the other way around, said to be the largest support Parvanov.

                          Asked about what it said, antibugarskata propaganda in Skopje, he says "I know a long time ago."

                          - In 1986, when almost nobody're allowed, argued a Balkan forum with his books and articles. There are other barriers, other guarantees should not allow similar abuses and pretensions minority Пиринската area, claims, if you want, here and there, to alter the boundaries. But there is no way to prevent publications, not to prevent positions media except kontrastavovi still stronger argument, what we possess. The truth is on our side, you just need to invest in science, in the media to this truth can not be known only in Bulgaria but in Europe, because in Skopje are very active on this issue, said Parvanov.

                          Asked about the intention of the government in Sofia to seek help from the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences in relation to the issue of good neighborly relations with Macedonia he says he always advocated that science be used when making the final decisions of the institutions.

                          - Academy should be used but it should be stimulated further. It has a modest almost no pay and nothing more, says former President of Bulgaria, Georgi Parvanov.

                          izvor: http://www.sitel.com.mk/node/55129


                          Borisov: Macedonians our najbratski people, but some politicians forget that!

                          Macedonians' najbratski closest people of Bulgaria, Boyko Borisov, Prime Minister of neighboring Bulgaria, in an interview with TV + TV.

                          He says that although he is dissatisfied with the policy of Macedonia to Bulgaria, it is a mistake that his country has recognized Macedonia under its constitutional name.

                          "They our najbratski people, our closest people and it was a wonderful gesture to them. I regret that there are politicians who forget and do not appreciate it. They are different people from us for the simple reason that a different state, they are Macedonian citizens, we are Bulgarian citizens, "Borisov said in an interview.

                          Asked about the dispute Borisov match:

                          "I do not want to talk about that subject, because it can be speculated. We recognize Macedonia as a country, she helped more than all, have supported everything and hope that the Macedonians will recognize it and need to know that good neighborliness is one of the main things in the EU. "

                          Borisov in an interview with talk of communism, when the Bulgarians in Pirin Macedonia force were forced to declare themselves as Macedonians. Among them, said Borisov, and father of the current Bulgarian President Rosen Plevneliev.

                          "Now some politicians in Macedonia can say that the Bulgarian President is Macedonian. Not dawned, "said Borisov.

                          According to him, the two neighboring countries should focus on economic cooperation and infrastructural connectivity, not history.

                          izvor: http://www.mkd.mk/90946/makedonija/m...bratski-narod/


                          There is one info on fb that claims a bulgarian journalist asked the bulgarian pm to apologize to Macedonia,but I can't find the original source.
                          Last edited by DedoAleko; 01-17-2013, 03:41 PM.

                          Comment

                          • Makedonska_Kafana
                            Senior Member
                            • Aug 2010
                            • 2642

                            Macedonian minority deleted from the PACE resolution Bulgaria

                            Macedonian minority deleted from the PACE resolution Bulgaria
                            MACEDONIA | 1.23.2013 17:04



                            Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly, an amendment has taken the Macedonian minority of the text of resolution extend the post-monitoring dialogue with Bulgaria.

                            PACE resolution is concerned about the growth of nationalist ideology and hostile climate against minorities such behaviors attacks against Muslims and supporters against Roma throughout Bulgaria. Simultaneously the full implementation of the provisions of the Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities, and the signing and ratification of the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages.

                            However, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, however, the resolution wiped Macedonian minority and Pomaks. The draft text of the resolution requires special care for these two unrecognized minorities. Deletion of the Macedonian minority of resolution happen through amendment submitted by a group of parliamentarians, and before PACE proposal defended Bulgarian MP Lachezar Toshev.

                            - In 2000, when Bulgaria has ratified the Framework Convention for minorities, we decided to make a list of recognized minorities. We believe that all groups can enjoy the protection of the Framework Convention, "pointed Tosev. Macedonian minority is not recognized by the Bulgarian state and it is not on the list.
                            http://www.makedonskakafana.com

                            Macedonia for the Macedonians

                            Comment

                            • momce
                              Banned
                              • Oct 2012
                              • 426

                              This is ridiculous half of Bulgaria is Macedonia and Macedonians have an exile community there also as many of them are Aegeans.

                              Comment

                              • Makedonska_Kafana
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2010
                                • 2642

                                Originally posted by momce View Post
                                This is ridiculous half of Bulgaria is Macedonia and Macedonians have an exile community there also as many of them are Aegeans.
                                The much hated VULGAROS today are Greece's most trusted bedfellow .. joke

                                NEW GREEK - Boris call me Spiro


                                neka se ebot dvete suv
                                Last edited by Makedonska_Kafana; 01-23-2013, 07:41 PM.
                                http://www.makedonskakafana.com

                                Macedonia for the Macedonians

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