Financial Crisis in Greece

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  • George S.
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 10116

    moontiki better for everyone that greece explodes & go it out of it's misery.Do you really think that the govt will take corrective measures to save it never.
    "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
    GOTSE DELCEV

    Comment

    • Bill77
      Senior Member
      • Oct 2009
      • 4545

      Noe: Below is a google translation.



      THE UNITED STATES MOVED THE GREEK GROUP "SECT OF REVOLUTIONARIES" ON THE BLACKLIST OF TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS

      Washington, Feb. 24 (Reuters) - The United States moved a Greek organization Sect of revolutionaries "of the blacklist of terrorist organizations and banned U.S. citizens to have business contacts with her.

      "Sect of revolutionaries" from its appearance after the riots in 2008, which erupted after police killed a teenager, claimed responsibility for killing a policeman and a journalist. The organization stood behind the attacks on the police station and television station.

      The inclusion of the group in the list of terrorist organizations by the Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to block the assets of the organization in the United States and prohibits U.S. citizens to have business contacts with her.

      In a statement, U.S. officials said the organization used violence in order to make revolution and overthrow the Greek government and that many of its terrorist activities threaten the national security of the United States.
      The last paragraph i found interesting.

      A) How the f*** does the violence or "Terrorist activities" in Greece threaten the national security of the United States?

      B) Does any of this sound familiar to what happened during the Greek Civil/independence war? where an attempt to overthrow the fascist government and USA stepping in.
      http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

      Comment

      • DirtyCodingHabitz
        Member
        • Sep 2010
        • 835

        United States must have something big in greece, and they won't allow for their corrupt puppets to be over thrown.

        I hope they overthrow the corrupt politicians and see what happens.

        Comment

        • fyrOM
          Banned
          • Feb 2010
          • 2180

          Originally posted by DirtyCodingHabitz View Post
          United States must have something big in greece, and they won't allow for their corrupt puppets to be over thrown.
          Greece is a nice hub for keeping check on the Mediterranean and Suez canal…they don’t trust anyone else.

          Comment

          • Onur
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2010
            • 2389

            Greece`s credit rating has been downgraded by 3 levels more by Moody`s and Greece now has even lower credit rating than Egypt. Moody`s officials also said that Greece will likely wont be able to repay it`s debt of 110 billion Euro in 2013 and most likely will go bankrupt. So, they urged that Greece needs reconstruction of her debt payment plan before 2013 otherwise things might go so bad;


            Moody's downgrade tips Greece closer to brink
            Moody's slashed Greece's credit rating by three notches on Monday, raising the specter that the distressed euro zone sovereign may be forced to restructure its debt, perhaps even before 2013.

            The move increased pressure on European leaders to ease repayment terms on bailout loans to Greece, just as Germany and its allies appear to have turned their backs on radical steps to help Athens reduce its debt through bond purchases or buy-backs.

            Moody's Investors Service downgraded Greek debt to B1 from Ba1 and said it may cut further, citing significant risks to the government's fiscal consolidation program from a revenue shortfall and difficulties in reforming healthcare and state-owned companies.

            "The sheer magnitude of the task becomes ever more apparent," Sarah Carlson, Moody's lead analyst on Greece, said.

            The downgrade sent a ripple of concern around credit markets, raising the price of insuring Greek, Portuguese and Spanish debt against default and the risk premium on holding Greek bonds rather than benchmark German bunds.

            Greece signed a 110 billion euros ($154 billion) rescue package with the EU and IMF last May to avoid default in exchange for draconian austerity measures which it has begun to implement. But many see the repayment terms as too onerous. Even if it fulfils the entire three-year adjustment program, its debt is projected to reach 158 percent of gross domestic product in 2013, a level widely seen as unsustainable.

            "There is a risk that conditions attached to any kind of continuing support after 2013 could take solvency criteria into account that the country may not be able to satisfy, and therefore could result in a restructuring of existing debt," Carlson told Reuters.


            "HIGHLY SPECULATIVE"
            Moody's was the first of the three major ratings agencies to classify Greek debt as "highly speculative," rating it lower than Egypt, and drew an indignant protest from Athens.

            The Greek Finance Ministry said Moody's had ignored progress in implementing its fiscal consolidation plan, including an improvement in revenue collection.

            "The rating downgrade announced by Moody's today is completely unjustified," it said in a statement. "Decisions such as Moody's today can initiate damaging self-fulfilling prophecies," it said.

            However, some analysts said the bond market was already pricing in a managed Greek default.

            "This is not going to be the last downgrade for Greece," said Christoph Weil, an economist at Commerzbank. "The market has already discounted that Greece will need to restructure its debt, so the rating agencies are just running behind the market."

            Moody's said it was concerned by the lack of certainty about the nature of financial support that will be available to Greece after 2013, and its implications for bondholders.

            "The likelihood of a default or distressed exchange has risen since its last downgrade of the Greek government debt rating in June 2010," the agency said.


            Some EU officials see the hardline stance as pushing Greece toward restructuring, but only after west European banks have had time to raise their capital base to cope with the fallout from potential Greek losses.

            http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110307/bs_nm/us_eurozone

            Comment

            • Bill77
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2009
              • 4545

              I love this Headline and article


              IMF Boss: Greeks are Steeped in Sh*t...

              IMF Boss: Greeks are Steeped in Sh*t...

              Thursday, 10 March 2011

              The Greek Government is reeling after IMF Boss Dominique Strauss Khan in a documentary ran by the French channel "Canal Plus" used tough vocabulary to voice his displeasure with the Greek people.

              Among the things he said:

              "The Greeks feel that they have been cheated and yet it is them who 'cooked' the statistics and who do not pay their taxes".

              "In Greece there are some who do not have bread to eat and people engaged in tax evasion as a national sport."

              "Fraud is widespread".
              "Had the assistance of IMF not been asked, Greece would have fallen in to the abyss for sure".

              The Greek Government just a day ago blamed the credit rating agencies for lowering their ratings by three notches. The latest statement from Khan would come as pouring salt on fresh wound.

              http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/17726/46/
              http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

              Comment

              • Makedonetz
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2010
                • 1080

                IMF Boss: Greeks are Steeped in Sh*t...

                The Greek Government is reeling after IMF Boss Dominique Strauss Khan in a documentary ran by the French channel "Canal Plus" used tough vocabulary to voice his displeasure with the Greek people.

                Among the things he said:

                "The Greeks feel that they have been cheated and yet it is them who 'cooked' the statistics and who do not pay their taxes".

                "In Greece there are some who do not have bread to eat and people engaged in tax evasion as a national sport."

                "Fraud is widespread".
                "Had the assistance of IMF not been asked, Greece would have fallen in to the abyss for sure".

                The Greek Government just a day ago blamed the credit rating agencies for lowering their ratings by three notches. The latest statement from Khan would come as pouring salt on fresh wound.


                Greece needs to realize they are sinking faster than the Titanic


                Nadevam deka tie ḱe se zadušat so nivnata EU dolari
                Makedoncite se borat
                za svoite pravdini!

                "The one who works for joining of Macedonia to Bulgaria,Greece or Serbia can consider himself as a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a good Macedonian"
                - Goce Delchev

                Comment

                • Imagination
                  Junior Member
                  • Feb 2011
                  • 69

                  (CNN) -- European Union leaders have hailed an agreement to use funds from both Europe and the International Monetary Fund to help financially-crippled Greece as important for the euro zone.

                  So what's the problem in Greece?
                  Years of unrestrained spending, cheap lending and failure to implement financial reforms left Greece badly exposed when the global economic downturn struck. This whisked away a curtain of partly fiddled statistics to reveal debt levels and deficits that exceeded limits set by the eurozone.

                  How big are these debts?
                  National debt, put at €300 billion ($413.6 billion), is bigger than the country's economy, with some estimates predicting it will reach 120 percent of gross domestic product in 2010. The country's deficit -- how much more it spends than it takes in -- is 12.7 percent.

                  So what happens now?
                  Greece's credit rating -- the assessment of its ability to repay its debts -- has been downgraded to the lowest in the eurozone, meaning it will likely be viewed as a financial black hole by foreign investors. This leaves the country struggling to pay its bills as interest rates on existing debts rise. The Greek government of Prime Minister George Papandreou, which inherited much of the financial burden when it took office late last year, has already scrapped most of its pre-election promises and must implement harsh and unpopular spending cuts.

                  Will this hurt the rest of Europe?
                  Greece is already in major breach of eurozone rules on deficit management and with the financial markets betting the country will default on its debts, this reflects badly on the credibility of the euro. There are also fears that financial doubts will infect other nations at the low end of Europe's economic scale, with Portugal and the Republic of Ireland coming under scrutiny. If Europe needs to resort to rescue packages involving bodies such as the International Monetary Fund, this would further damage the euro's reputation and could lead to a substantial fall against other key currencies.

                  So what is Greece doing?
                  As already mentioned, the government has started slashing away at spending and has implemented austerity measures aimed at reducing the deficit by more than €10 billion ($13.7 billion). It has hiked taxes on fuel, tobacco and alcohol, raised the retirement age by two years, imposed public sector pay cuts and applied tough new tax evasion regulations.

                  Are people happy with this?
                  Predictably, quite the opposite and there have been warnings of resistance from various sectors of society. Workers nationwide have staged strikes closing airports, government offices, courts and schools. This industrial action is expected to continue.

                  How are Greece's European neighbors helping?
                  Led by Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel, all 16 countries which make up the euro zone have agreed a rescue plan for their ailing neighbor. The package, which would only be offered as a last resort, will involve co-ordinated bilateral loans from countries inside the common currency area, as well as funds and technical assistance from the International Monetary Fund (IMF).

                  According to a joint statement on the EU Web site, a "majority" of the euro zone States would contribute an amount based on their Gross Domestic Product (GDP) and population, "in the event that Greece needed support after failing to access funds in the financial markets."

                  This means Germany will be the main contributor, followed by France. Although the announcement did not mention any specific figure, a senior European official quoted by Reuters said that the potential package may be worth around 20 billion euro (US$26.8 billion).

                  However any European-backed loan package requires the unanimous approval of European Union members, meaning any euro zone country would have effective veto power.

                  Comment

                  • Onur
                    Senior Member
                    • Apr 2010
                    • 2389

                    Greece will start to recover from crises as soon as they accept the fact that they didn't deserve to live in their former standards by only selling tourism and they were able to maintain that standard with someone else`s(eg. German taxpayer) money since 1980s.

                    Greece took about 110-120 billion dollars as a free donation from EU funds since they became EU member(Greece is no.1 leecher of EU funds and Poland is 2nd with only 55-60 billion). Greeks wasted this money for their so-called "Hellenic cause" and for unnecessary luxury. Because they were thinking that this money flow would never stop as long as they present themselves as an important buffer against "the big bad wolf Turks" to the christian Europeans. BUT this trick is not working anymore and now, Greeks have to work and live with their own standards just like any other country.


                    Btw, I just read that on the media;

                    Kavala: Jobless Couple on Hunger Strike


                    A jobless couple set a tent on the main square of Kavala, Northeast Greece, and started a hunger strike. The aim of their desperate action? To get a job! Lazaros Papadopoulos, 60, and his wife Frideriki Toka, 40, saw no other solution to raise attention to their problem. They have been without a job since a couple of years. They reached the tip of their hopelessness iceberg when their landlord threatened them with eviction shouldn’t they be able to pay due rents of seven months.



                    Papadopoulos, a driver, concluded his last temporary work contract in December 2009. Toga, a cook’s assistant, has been without a job in the last four years.

                    As the police has removed their tent right away on Friday, the couple spends the days and nights outdoors, practically in the middle of nowhere, hoping to get the attention of some merciful employer. “We will continue until we both get a job” they said to local newspaper ProiniNews.

                    Residents of Kavala provide them with water, a doctor from Greek Red Cross has examined Lazaros Papadopoulos.



                    14.03.2011

                    http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/201...hunger-strike/

                    Comment

                    • Prolet
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2009
                      • 5241

                      Onur, Poland is the largest East European Country in the EU so its understandable for the EU to invest there, however Greece has been an EU member for over 30 years surly they could have done more with these funds for their country.
                      МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                      Comment

                      • fyrOM
                        Banned
                        • Feb 2010
                        • 2180

                        Greece refuses to face their reality and remains an obstacle. The only thing left is to hope for Greece to fall - the faster and harder the better until they are completely gone.

                        Comment

                        • Imagination
                          Junior Member
                          • Feb 2011
                          • 69

                          Originally posted by OziMak View Post
                          Greece refuses to face their reality and remains an obstacle. The only thing left is to hope for Greece to fall - the faster and harder the better until they are completely gone.
                          There is a saying : The Jews cry when a Greek is born. It's childish to believe they will just disappear. They were given new loans to get stable and still : no matter the economic problems, the people still enjoy good standarts ! But then some fool would say " but look they go to Turkey ...", well those are small numbers, no more than 20-30 and they are probably Muslims and not of Greek origin. Its just like saying more and more Macedonian citizens are going to Albania, that doesn't mean they are Macedonian by ethnicity. They are clever and will find a way to avoid bankruptcy, they have connections all over the world.

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13670

                            If their politicians and financial advisors were so 'clever' they wouldn't be in the position they are now. Don't give credit where it isn't due - the Germans did, and look at where it left them and their little 'brother'.
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • Voltron
                              Banned
                              • Jan 2011
                              • 1362

                              Meh... Im not too optimistic either. Only way out of this is to default, let the chips fall where they may and tell the creditors to go fuck themselves.

                              After the fallout starts to clear we then need to publicly seize property of our politicians, and other economic juggernauts that have driven this country into an economic meltdown. Give them a choice to be exiled or jailed for treason.
                              For this to happen though, we need new faces to govern this country.

                              That being said, People are still shopping and cafes, taverna's are still packed. You cant even find parking to go somewhere. Until the day comes where I see places empty from ppl then I will know we are in big trouble. So far its just taking it one day at a time.

                              Comment

                              • Soldier of Macedon
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 13670

                                Voltron, what do you consider as the worst case scenario if Greece does let the 'chips fall' and refuses to pay back the creditors that have funded its lifestyle for the past few decades?
                                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                                Comment

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