United Macedonia Diaspora

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  • julie
    Senior Member
    • May 2009
    • 3869

    Screwdriver and brandy
    You both come onto this forum and put down everyone that posts here. What you don't seem to understand this forum allows the Macedonian diaspora to be heard, their concerns, and has been a fantastic medium in publishing facts our historians are negligent in. No questions are answered and you attack everyone here, both of you dont know how to answer any questions posed to you and attack the integrity of our members.
    The administrators have done a fantastic job in developing this medium for us, and it affords us the means of presenting facts and the truth, and our voice is heard.
    The MTO has the integrity to continue to allow UMD to post here, and advertise the parties and hero awards that you hand out to people that are not deserving of such an honour.
    The UMD has not responded as an organisation to our concerns, for we are the Macedonian diaspora, the voice of the people, that endorse the Framework Agreement and endorse prefixes and suffixes to our name, all detrimental to the continuance and survival of our very existence, for the Macedonian Cause.
    You come here and attack forum members with bravado, and most of our identities here are known, yet you hide behind your PC and applaud the bravado behind the endorsement of the erosion of our identity by attacking the very people that are fighting to keep it.
    I dont think much of either of your characters, at least Meto has not been as rude and arrogant in personal attacks, perhaps he should take you both aside because you both are not doing your organisation any favours, the MTO is far reaching, and I know there are many people that do read here.
    SoM has allowed the UMD the privilege to continue advertising here with their huge signature blocks, and perhaps you should both hang your heads in shame, because you are further adding to my continued disgust of the integrity of your organisation as am sure others are getting quite sick of it.
    How about answering the questions posed to you, that is , if you can, isn't transparency and honesty something that should be upheld by your organisation?
    It disgusts me, this continuing attack on my fellow forum members who are fighters for the Macedonian cause. Their is no hidden agenda here, or ego, nor anyone with self serving interests.
    It also further makes me despisae what your country aspires to, the erosion of the Macedonian people's very name and identity. Your organisation promotes it, with the endorsement of the framework agreement , the endorsement of name change for entry into EU and NATO, because they are your US led big boy clubs. Your country is the one that destabilised RoM, with your support. Why would you want to do this to a nation of people, sellout your own blood, just to gain a seat in your bullshitter's US congress and country with your agendas.
    I suggest you both crawl back into that hole you came out of , it really pisses me off more, as am sure it does others, to be put down continually, remember this
    WE ARE THE MACEDONIAN DIASPORA AND THE MTO IS THE VOICE OF THE MACEDONIAN DIASPORA.
    now blubber off you pair of alcoholics, because your ramblings and attacks are obviously under the influence
    "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

    Comment

    • Vangelovski
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 8531

      Originally posted by UMDiaspora.org View Post
      UMD Meets with MP Bryon Wilfert (Richmond Hills, Canada)

      http://bryonwilfert.ca/?q=content/un...onian-diaspora
      Groundhog day...new page, same BS.

      Guy's, I think that from now on, everytime we meet with anyone, Ministers, MP's, Councilors, restuarant owners, rich people, poor people, regardless of what you're talking about, make sure you have your photo taken with them so you can post it here. Please also include any emails, letters and "press releases" you happen to write during your daily activism.

      Meto, in his naivety (and his followers in theirs), seems to think he's the only one on this planet lobbying policy makers. Its as if no other activist does this. He seems to forget that photo's and marketing is not what counts, but rather the message that he's promoting.
      If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

      The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

      Comment

      • Risto the Great
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 15658

        Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
        Groundhog day...new page, same BS.
        He seems to forget that photo's and marketing is not what counts, but rather the message that he's promoting.
        No, there is a new message .... no negotiation on identity. It happened recently. Since then, they appear to have gone underground. What does an organisation do if it promotes "no negotiation" .... it gets the message out at every opportunity. Where are the speeches in front of dignitaries with Meto banging his fist on the table demanding an end to this embarrassment. It might even win him some credibility with people that matter.
        Risto the Great
        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

        Comment

        • julie
          Senior Member
          • May 2009
          • 3869

          Vangelovski, if that was the case, this forum would be full of ego trippers, and full of photographs, when we lobby here, we don't take out cameras and have pretty photo shoots, we all do it without ego.
          These boat trips and parties, do the UMD members realise are financing a luxurious lifestyle?
          "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

          Comment

          • julie
            Senior Member
            • May 2009
            • 3869

            RTG, you are correct, absolutely, they were big on travelling world wide promoting prefixes to the Macedonian name. Why is the UMD not doing what the AMHRC has done, promoting NO NEGOTIATIONS with their billboard campaign?
            "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

            Comment

            • Mr Brandy
              Member
              • May 2010
              • 144

              Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
              I think I agree with you. However it begs to be mentioned that they often give the impression of being involved in a whole lot more things than they actually are.
              Agreed. And giving impressions will only get them ( or anyone ) so far and I think we can have faith that the truth will always come out in the end.

              Comment

              • UMDiaspora.org
                Member
                • Oct 2009
                • 525

                UMD Meets Canadian National Defence Minister Peter MacKay

                Read full press release: http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/508/1/
                For comments, questions, concerns, please contact us at:

                United Macedonian Diaspora
                http://www.umdiaspora.org

                1101 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, 6th Floor, Washington, D.C. 20004, United States
                Phone: (202) 756-2244, Fax: (202) 756-7323, E-mail: [email protected]

                PO Box 2153, Hawthorn, Vic. 3122, Australia
                Phone: 0438 385 466, E-mail: [email protected]

                3555 St. Clair Avenue East, Toronto, ON, M1K 1L6, Canada
                Phone: 416-209-0448, E-mail: [email protected]

                Comment

                • Mr Brandy
                  Member
                  • May 2010
                  • 144

                  Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                  Groundhog day...new page, same BS.

                  Guy's, I think that from now on, everytime we meet with anyone, Ministers, MP's, Councilors, restuarant owners, rich people, poor people, regardless of what you're talking about, make sure you have your photo taken with them so you can post it here. Please also include any emails, letters and "press releases" you happen to write during your daily activism.

                  Meto, in his naivety (and his followers in theirs), seems to think he's the only one on this planet lobbying policy makers. Its as if no other activist does this. He seems to forget that photo's and marketing is not what counts, but rather the message that he's promoting.
                  Vangelovski - I would like to humbly challenge you here. While I agree with you that the message being promoted is of uptmost importance why discount "photo's and marketing" as you say.

                  I notice from many posters that there is a general disdain for marketing photos and self-promotion. It's described as almost being shameful.

                  Let's forget UMD for a second - can you honestly say that the Macedonian organizations that you support are doing an adequate job promoting themselves and their hard work? Can there not be more effort put into promoting the good works that you do and getting the message out there? I think everyone here can agree promoting the Macedonian cause is an inherently political endeavour. Don't skilled and successful politicians have the gift of self promotion.

                  What I keep hearing from non-Macedonians that have a better then average understanding of our cause is that we don't promote our issues enough. Therefore I argue that we need more salesmanship and marketing - not less. The "Our name is our name" billboard campaign currently run by MHRMI/AMHRC is a perfect example of what I am talking about - more of this is needed not less. We need campaigns like this happening everywhere we need to promote our cause.

                  I would love to read the stories and your activists lobbying policymakers. I don't think UMD is the only group that does this however I think you have to admit they do a good job at promoting themselves - I don't see this as a negative.
                  Last edited by Mr Brandy; 11-04-2010, 07:29 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Pelister
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 2742

                    I think its worth posting this very important information in a separate thread, and made a sticky because it shows the terms and conditions that have been IMPOSED on the Macedonians, and the kinds of things UMD have been supporting over the years.

                    Originally posted by Tom

                    By supporting the Interim Accord and the Framework Agreement, this is what UMD is in favour of:

                    The full text of the Interim Accord (from the UN database) can be found here:



                    Key Articles in the Interim Accord which Undermine Macedonian Sovereignty

                    a) Macedonia agrees to negotiate over its name (Article 5);

                    b) Macedonia agrees to renounce all claims to its ethnic/historic territory and agrees NOT to pursue the rights of Macedonians not only in Greece but in ANY OTHER STATE (Article 6);

                    c) Macedonia agrees to renounce the Sonce as its national symbol AND any other symbols that Greece considers to be part of its historic or cultural heritage (Article 7);

                    d) Macedonia agrees to only enter international organisations under FYROM (Article 11); and

                    e) Macedonia agrees that the two parties will not “resolve” the name dispute through the International Court of Justice (Article 21).



                    The full text of the Framework Agreement can be found here:



                    Key points in the Framework Agreement:

                    The Framework Agreement makes Macedonia:

                    a) a multi-national state – effectively, any minority that can muster 20 per cent of the population becomes a constitutive nation. Theoretically, Macedonia can become a nation-state of up to five nations. Further, Macedonians themselves could lose constitutive nation status if their proportion of the population fell below 20 per cent;

                    b) a multi-lingual state – currently, Macedonia has two official languages and this could go up to five. Theoretically, Macedonian could also lose its official status;

                    c) a multi-religious state – official status has been provided not only to Christianity, but Islam as well, making Macedonia (in part) an Islamic state.

                    d) a racist state – with the Badinter principle (certain laws need a majority of parliamentarians and a majority of ethnic minority parliamentarians to pass), Macedonia provides undue veto power to a minority of citizens based solely on their ethnicity. Further, the Framework Agreement provides state employment to citizens based on ethnicity rather than merit;

                    e) a segregated state – rather than integrating minorities into the Macedonian mainstream, the Framework Agreement only further segregates the population by allowing ethnic minorities to develop politically independent of the mainstream (and of each other) without reciprocal civic responsibilities towards Macedonian society as a whole. This is particularly evident in how ethnic Albanians have refused to learn Macedonian, citing the Framework Agreement, and integrate into mainstream society. The decentralisation process (based along ethnic lines rather than economically-sustainable districts) has resulted in ethnic “enclaves” where minorities are becoming more segregated (politically and culturally) rather than integrating into wider society.

                    The Framework Agreement was a capitulation to extremists who engaged in terrorist acts. These extremists have now been guaranteed political power and positions in state institutions and security structures.
                    There are foriegn forces trying to destroy us and UMD has been right behind them from the very beginning.

                    Comment

                    • julie
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2009
                      • 3869

                      Mr Brandy, do you support name negotiations? Do you support the enforcement of the Ohrid agreement?
                      The concern here is what UMD is promoting. We dont need to promote boat trips and award hero awards to politicians that SHOULD be acknowledging our identity as our basic right to our existence as a nation.
                      I am so proud of the AMHRC, who work tirelessly for our cause, and they get the message across without pretty photographs of themselves.
                      What is it that UMD are promoting?
                      And stop knocking the people that post on this wonderful forum, who are privately lobbying, without the need for ego and glory.
                      We are so lucky here to be heard, we are the diaspora and these are our concerns
                      "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

                      Comment

                      • Makedonetz
                        Senior Member
                        • Apr 2010
                        • 1080

                        And to add on to what Julie allready posted above.

                        And withought the Diaspora you guys would be Nothing.
                        Makedoncite se borat
                        za svoite pravdini!

                        "The one who works for joining of Macedonia to Bulgaria,Greece or Serbia can consider himself as a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a good Macedonian"
                        - Goce Delchev

                        Comment

                        • Phoenix
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2008
                          • 4671

                          I bet that stravdziger bloke couldn't find a screw in a brothel like UMD...

                          The screwdrivers, the brandy's, and others from Meto's stable really need to understand their position within the diaspora and how they represent that diaspora...personally I'm bored with the photo opportunities, the cocktail parties, the boat cruises and the award nights.

                          Try a novel approach to lobbying, something like a passionate defence of the interests of the Macedonian diaspora and the Macedonians in the Republic.

                          Comment

                          • Mr Brandy
                            Member
                            • May 2010
                            • 144

                            Originally posted by julie View Post
                            Mr Brandy, do you support name negotiations? Do you support the enforcement of the Ohrid agreement?
                            The concern here is what UMD is promoting. We dont need to promote boat trips and award hero awards to politicians that SHOULD be acknowledging our identity as our basic right to our existence as a nation.
                            I am so proud of the AMHRC, who work tirelessly for our cause, and they get the message across without pretty photographs of themselves.
                            What is it that UMD are promoting?
                            And stop knocking the people that post on this wonderful forum, who are privately lobbying, without the need for ego and glory.
                            We are so lucky here to be heard, we are the diaspora and these are our concerns
                            Hi Julie - No I don't support the name negotiations. I also don't support the enforcment of the Ohrid Agreement. I'll go one step further and state that I despise both and I wish they never existed in the first place.

                            Your absolutley right - The politicians SHOULD be acknowledging our basic rights - but they don't. I see what people are saying - why should we praise Stephen Harper for simply doing the decent thing and acknowleding our existance - why are our standards so low.

                            I understand this but this is the reality - Rome wasn't built in a day. This is where we are today - years ago it was much worse - if we keep working at it years from now it will better.

                            I am proud of AMHRC as well - also MHRMI for their many achievments over the years however from my point of view and please don't take this a mean spirited way - they need to do more in terms of selling the legend - we need to be loud and proud of who we are - the billboard idea was an excellent step in promoting their way of thinking in a visible way that reaches the power brokers - in this case the Macedonian public who are the voters. Good job - let's keep going!

                            We are fortunate to have this forum - I commend the administrators who I am sure volunteer a tremdenous amount of their own time to keeping things up and running. However I have to say that if you read back to my comments it all started with me congratulating UMD on the photo and then I am attacked and referred to as the "apologist" amongst many other insults. If you go back and count I think it would be easy to tell that much more anger and vitriol was directed towards me then I dished out to anyone.

                            I'm not here to argue with people but it seems to be impossible at this time to make a pro-UMD comment without being hung out to dry. I understand the concerns with UMD - I have read them all. I also have my own concerns with the UMD however I have managed to maintain a productive and open line of communication with them. I am not here stating they are perfect - however I am willing to work with them towards common goals and continually remind them what the diaspora thinks and feels.

                            Comment

                            • stravdziger
                              Junior Member
                              • Sep 2010
                              • 48

                              Originally posted by julie View Post
                              Screwdriver and brandy
                              You both come onto this forum and put down everyone that posts here. What you don't seem to understand this forum allows the Macedonian diaspora to be heard, their concerns, and has been a fantastic medium in publishing facts our historians are negligent in. No questions are answered and you attack everyone here, both of you dont know how to answer any questions posed to you and attack the integrity of our members.
                              The administrators have done a fantastic job in developing this medium for us, and it affords us the means of presenting facts and the truth, and our voice is heard.
                              What incredible bullshit you speak. Your administrators have done a fantastic job of sowing division in the diaspora community to push a hidden agenda. I'm glad you love this circle-jerk of a forum so much, though... you sound like a little kid.




                              The MTO has the integrity to continue to allow UMD to post here, and advertise the parties and hero awards that you hand out to people that are not deserving of such an honour.
                              The UMD has not responded as an organisation to our concerns, for we are the Macedonian diaspora, the voice of the people, that endorse the Framework Agreement and endorse prefixes and suffixes to our name, all detrimental to the continuance and survival of our very existence, for the Macedonian Cause.

                              Yep, that is pretty much the party line that you all repeat to each other, but the problem is it is a gross misrepresentation of the facts. The basic issue is: do we want an active, mobilized global Macedonian diaspora movement with various organizations that actually push the cause forward by getting engaged in the world, or do we essentially sit on our hands, complain as loudly as possible with a typical victim mentality - "woe is me" - and spend our energy denigrating other Macedonians.

                              Not only do the views of the majority on this site NOT represent the general view of Macedonians world wide, but I don't think they represent the view in Australia's community either.




                              You come here and attack forum members with bravado, and most of our identities here are known, yet you hide behind your PC and applaud the bravado behind the endorsement of the erosion of our identity by attacking the very people that are fighting to keep it. I dont think much of either of your characters, at least Meto has not been as rude and arrogant in personal attacks, perhaps he should take you both aside because you both are not doing your organisation any favours, the MTO is far reaching, and I know there are many people that do read here.

                              Well, you are right about one thing: Meto is very polite and patient with some of you yahoos. But your portrayal of who is attacking whom is laughable.



                              SoM has allowed the UMD the privilege to continue advertising here with their huge signature blocks, and perhaps you should both hang your heads in shame, because you are further adding to my continued disgust of the integrity of your organisation as am sure others are getting quite sick of it.
                              When it comes to loudmouths and ad hominem attacks, SOM takes the cake, but I don't think he needs you to protect him, really.




                              How about answering the questions posed to you, that is , if you can, isn't transparency and honesty something that should be upheld by your organisation?It disgusts me, this continuing attack on my fellow forum members who are fighters for the Macedonian cause.
                              I haven't seen one question that hasn't been answered 100 times by various people who are sympathetic to the UMD. Your fellow fighters for the cause are an embarrassment - what cause is it, when every thread includes anti-UMD diatribes? You can be disgusted if you want.



                              Their is no hidden agenda here, or ego, nor anyone with self serving interests.
                              I don't believe this for one minute.




                              It also further makes me despisae what your country aspires to, the erosion of the Macedonian people's very name and identity. Your organisation promotes it, with the endorsement of the framework agreement , the endorsement of name change for entry into EU and NATO, because they are your US led big boy clubs. Your country is the one that destabilised RoM, with your support.
                              This is a very telling part in your little rant... The underlying anti-Americanism in Australian culture has somehow been manipulated into "despising" your Macedonian brothers, whose crime is that they happen to live in that country. Your arguments about UMD "promoting" the misdeeds of the USA are without merit, but you are too blind to see it, because that's the nature of hatred and radicalism.





                              Why would you want to do this to a nation of people, sellout your own blood, just to gain a seat in your bullshitter's US congress and country with your agendas.
                              Any "patriots" who run a 24/7 propaganda machine against their own people are the real sellouts - that's what you and your mates are.





                              I suggest you both crawl back into that hole you came out of , it really pisses me off more, as am sure it does others, to be put down continually, remember this
                              WE ARE THE MACEDONIAN DIASPORA AND THE MTO IS THE VOICE OF THE MACEDONIAN DIASPORA.
                              now blubber off you pair of alcoholics, because your ramblings and attacks are obviously under the influence

                              Keep dreaming, sister... you can use ALL CAPS the whole time if it makes you feel better. Macedonian "patriots" who don't actively work for the cause are of no use. Talk is cheap. Get off of your asses and get to work. If you don't like UMD, that's perfectly fine, but if you think you are doing anything of value by pushing your divisive, anti-Macedonian agenda, you are sadly mistaken.

                              Comment

                              • Soldier of Macedon
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 13670

                                Originally posted by screwdriver
                                I'm glad you love this circle-jerk of a forum so much
                                If you hate it so much, why don't you slither out of here? Or are you waiting to be sent away?
                                Not only do the views of the majority on this site NOT represent the general view of Macedonians world wide, but I don't think they represent the view in Australia's community either.
                                Stop embarrassing yourself. Which views at the MTO don't represent the general view of Macedonians? Which one's don't represent the Macedonian community in Australia? Have you ever been in Australia?
                                I haven't seen one question that hasn't been answered 100 times by various people who are sympathetic to the UMD.
                                Can you tell me 1 of the 100 answers that were given with respect to Meto's indication that Macedonia must change her name for the NATO and EU?
                                Any "patriots" who run a 24/7 propaganda machine against their own people are the real sellouts - that's what you and your mates are.
                                We work against all people who work against the Macedonian Cause. You just happen to find yourself sitting on the other side of the fence because of your blind faith in the UMD.
                                Get off of your asses and get to work.
                                Your anger and spite sounds a lot like that depraved and deluded administrator over at Maknews. What have you done for the Macedonian Cause?

                                If your purpose is to give us your endless diatribes that are completely full of shit, then you have no purpose here. Don't waste our time or pollute our forum with your misguided and idiotic hatred of the truth.
                                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                                Comment

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