United Macedonia Diaspora

[Grotius]

I feared that it might be the ranting of a lunatic who likes to be the judge and jury of peoples identity. I can't see that anybody is able to satisfy his criteria, so where does that leave us. in fact, his ideological predisposition is very similar to the Greek one. I can't wait to be placed on his blacklist, it will be a privelage.

sorry indigen, there is simply no credibility there anymore.

although i do agree with him about the absurdity of where this thread has ended up.

Dimo, I think I spotted a few slavs at the local shopping centre, what should i do? should i report them to the authorities? I fear we may be overrun by the slavs.

[Vangelovski]

Therefore, in an ethnic sense, a Macedonian is a Macedonian-speaking person of Slavonic descent from any of the current four regions of homeland or ethnic Macedonia.

This view - we are Slavs that speak Macedonian - is completely unacceptable.

However, I do note that it was written 21 years ago and I do hope that the views of the two authors have changed in the intervening period.

[DIMO]

grotius u saw slavs at the shoping centre unbelivable, what should u do, join them mate.

[Pavel]

[QUOTE=indigen;64022]




"No "Slav" and "Tatar" (imagine that?) grafts for me, thank you very much! MONGREL-BREED = anti-Macedonian propaganda!"

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this type of sick racism from indigen is unacceptable. according to some sources there are at present around 10 million people in the world of Tatar ethnic origin. if any of them read this forum i want them to know that 99% of the Macedonians on this forum are not racists and we have nothing against the Tatar people.

[Grotius]

Dimo, but I'm not slav, i have an unbroken, direct, pure racial lineal connection to the Ancient macedonians.

I thought you were interested in flushing out demonic slavs, after all, you seem to have some sort of slavophonia. Dimo, are you an ancient too?

[Grotius]

to be serious for a moment, I don't subscribe to either a slav or ancient theory, clearly our (and every other peoples) identity is a little more nuanced than that. therefore i don't think it is at all useful when people espouse an absolutist view about either. it's lazy at best. i won't say what it is at worst just yet. Dimo, whilst i was just being mischievous before, these things do have a serious side.

when one sits back and absorbs some of indigens theory, (which has been bothering me) i do feel disconcerted slightly, especially if we follow through on his logic. when one asserts that we "ARE DIRECT DESCENDANTS of OUR GLORIOUS AND LEGENDARY ANCIENT MACEDONIAN PREDECESSORS", (in capitals mind you), sounds good, but what then is the logical implication of 'our' relationship with other peoples, I think Pavel might have a point.

[DIMO]

grotius im very happy for you that u have a pure direct connection to the ancient macedonians. Am i ancient, very ancient mate.

[DIMO]

grotius, my intrest is in macedonian ancestors and history, personally i have no intrest in tartars or slav history. What concerns me is there is macedonians out there that belive the macedonians of today originated from the slavs from the 6th century onwards, what i belive not as inviduals but as a people that macedonia and macedonians originated from our ancestors the ancient macedonians.

[Onur]

everyone on earth has mongrel background. someone who talks alot about mongrels, and places genes over culture does not know what he is talking about. culture makes identity not genes. mongrels, purebreds, genes and military take over of the macedonian govt, that is indigen and that sounds exactly like a neo nazi!!

Agree to you.

Also, racism never works in Balkans. If someone tries to discriminate people in the name of racist ideas there, it just makes him look as stupid as some current Bulgars or Greeks.

Balkans is not the edge of the world like Japan or Wales. On the contrary, It was always a passage and crosspoint for many societies, including Tatars. So you cannot reach any point with racism here.

Be careful about how you call "Tatar" people indigen, you might be one of "Mongrel-breed"(as you call) too... who knows?

[Bill77]

Has anyone studdied or heard of the "Dura-Europos inscriptions"?

linguist Anthony Ambrozic who, through his translations of the "Dura-Europos inscriptions", has identified that language to be the root of the same language spoken by modern Macedonians today.

Quote Risto Stefov: "According to modern dating methods it (Dura-Europos inscriptions) has been dated to the first century BC, about 700 years before the supposed "Slav language", according to mainstream history, had reached the Balkans. This new evidence, however, contradicts the old claims that modern Macedonians are the descendants of Slavs who invaded Macedonia in the sixth century AD.


There for i think its incorrect calling our language "if" any of Anthony Ambrozic theories are true that our language existed well before the "slavs" invaded Macedonia.

Did modern Macedonians inherit the language that our forefathers picked up from the Slavs who overran Macedonia during the 6th century AD or is it the other way around, they picked up the language of ancient Macedonians who lived in the Balkans in the first millennium BC?

Macedonian people are victims of modern politics which probably originated in the 19th century.
Quote: "Our present day knowledge of the origin of the Slavs is, to a large extent, a legacy of the 19th century. A scholarly endeavor inextricably linked with forging national identities...." (Page 6, Florin Curta, The Making of the Slavs, History and Archaeology of the Lower Danube Region c. 500 - 700, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2001)".
Its sad that people believe our language is not a indigenous language that belonged since ancient times and we are regarded as invaders of our own ancestral lands.

The slavs (invading tribes) who would have picked up our language were so dominent in the Balkans, That which ever nation spoke there language would have been linked in a same family with these powerful predominant "slavs". Evan the originators of this language.....us Macedonians.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Bill, FYI (not taking anything away from the point you're making), but Ambrozic's works regarding the Dura are inaccurate.

[Phoenix]

I think its very counter productive to be 'selective' about our origins...I believe the richness of our Macedonian culture and identity itself is the result of the many influences that have swept through our corner of the world, since the first human steps were taken on our lands...

To surgically dissect the 'good' influences from the 'bad' is simply an act of historical revisionism on the level of absurdity made famous by the modern 'greek'.

The argument has to move away from this historical straight-jacket approach in an attempt to 'validate' our 'identity' and move back to where identity really belongs and that is in self consciousness and in the minds of men and the freedom in which to express it...

[Soldier of Macedon]

I don't know what your concept of "direct' entails but mine only requires indigenous genetic and cultural heritage, which without a doubt exists in present day Macedonians.......

Then the point of contention largely rests with different interpretations relating to the terminology used, otherwise, we all seem to be in agreement on the same facts.

SOM, you are trying to be a peacemaker between two strong and uncompromising/incompatible Macedonia ideological currents and your attempt is doomed to failure from the outset. No fence-sitters allowed in this ideological war! :-)

I am far from being a 'fence-sitter' mate, as a matter of fact, I have been quite clinical when explaining my perceptions.

We have indigenous cultural heritage and evolving indigenous cultural heritage (which would be the major part of it) inherited from our predecessors, Christian religious traditions being a significant part of it due to the fact that the first roots of Christianity in Europe are in Macedonia.

Part of the evolution includes the integration of foreign elements into Macedonian culture, if Christianity is also counted in the heritage that links us back to the ancients, then the same applies to most others in the Balkans, making them 'indigenous' also. Do you agree?

Therefore, in an ethnic sense, a Macedonian is a Macedonian-speaking person of Slavonic descent......

This is an inaccurate statement, as looking at it overall, the Slavonic 'connection' is linguistic and has little to do with 'descent'. Irrespective, although the statement could have been better written, I see no reason to doubt the commitment and good intentions of Popov or anybody from the AMHRC. I am sure we have all written things in the past that could have been better worded.

[UMDiaspora.org]

The United Macedonian Diaspora (UMD) announced today that its Board of Directors elected Stojan Nikolov as Chairman for the upcoming year. Nikolov takes over the role of Chairman from current UMD Vice President Aleksandar Mitreski who served as Chairman since July 2009. The Chairmanship is a one year position and the Chairman is selected by the Board from its members. Nikolov has been a member of the UMD Board for the last two years serving as Development Director of UMD Voice magazine. In addition, he oversees the development of new technologies to promote UMD, such as YouTube and Facebook, and he helps maintain the UMD website.

Read full press release: http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/489/1/

[Soldier of Macedon]

Every organisation can be operated how the operators see fit and appropriate, so long as it is transparent, then people can make their own minds up. I wanted to make this clear before my question, because irrespective of what the answer is I will not view the UMD any 'worse' or 'better', I only want to know for clarification. Does the UMD presidency also come under a vote, or not?