United Macedonia Diaspora

[Phoenix]

Like I said, your issue is with the semantics of their press releases.

Buktop, Freudian slip or just another example of an unfortunate choice of words...?

"...the semantics of their press releases".

Yes I would have to agree if we go by the definition of 'semantics'...

...the language used (as in advertising or political propaganda) to achieve a desired effect on an audience especially through the use of words with novel or dual meanings...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/semantics

Buktop, this is a huge problem that UMD have, a lack of clarity in their message unless its a deliberate ploy...?

Buktop, you lack honesty...so inat rabotash, magare edno...

[osiris]

come on man give the kid a break with a name like buktop whaddya expect rocket science, although i once remember a buktop on maknews who actually was smart and brave enough to support obama over palin insignificance and the other old soldier whats his name now.
wow what happening to you buktop sidling up to meto and the macedonian neocons all spin smea i antics and bullshit like dubbya the nulicker warrior

[Dzog]

Buktop = Viktor in rakopisna kirilica (except for the "t"). Surely we can't hold that against him?

[osiris]

dzog you are a genius mate you are right and i humbly apologise to butop, its a great name after all. so mate any chance of you coming down for the dinner in march. i urge you to come man.

[Buktop]

Buktop, you're going around in circles and you're only lying to yourself.

Every statement made by UMD is a policy statement and a statement of UMD's stance on a particular issue. They're quite clear.

On a side note, Meto's visit to Australia is coming up. I urge all Macedonian's who go along to record the event as accurately as possible so that he cannot deny and/or reinterpret his statements after the fact.

We have argued this before Vangelovski, many times. It seems we are bound to either side of the argument, and there is no chance of reconciliation.

I hope you do record it because I would like to see UMD's tour of Australia.

[Buktop]

Buktop, Freudian slip or just another example of an unfortunate choice of words...?

"...the semantics of their press releases".

Yes I would have to agree if we go by the definition of 'semantics'...

...the language used (as in advertising or political propaganda) to achieve a desired effect on an audience especially through the use of words with novel or dual meanings...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/semantics

Buktop, this is a huge problem that UMD have, a lack of clarity in their message unless its a deliberate ploy...?

Buktop, you lack honesty...so inat rabotash, magare edno...

You know exactly which definition I meant, I believe perhaps they should spend a little more time choosing words more carefully.

How do I lack honesty Phoenix? Can you show me where I have lied about my feelings on this issue? Can you show me where I have misrepresented the facts in a blatant or intentional manner?

[Buktop]

come on man give the kid a break with a name like buktop whaddya expect rocket science, although i once remember a buktop on maknews who actually was smart and brave enough to support obama over palin insignificance and the other old soldier whats his name now.
wow what happening to you buktop sidling up to meto and the macedonian neocons all spin smea i antics and bullshit like dubbya the nulicker warrior

I am the same person,

I have reasoned with people on this forum and I came here with the intention of curbing some of the unnecessary and unwarranted hatred that was being perpetuated by cultural division and misunderstanding. As you can see, even with nearly the entire forum against my view I feel it is necessary to level the spectrum. I find it severely counterproductive to criticize with no intention of improving the organization or the people involved. UMD is still young yes, but they are one of the first organizations to span 3 continents, and connect Macedonians from all over the world. I don't think we should squander their achievements to date with calls for their destruction, but perhaps this upcoming tour of Australia will provide you guys with a serious platform for change. I hope all goes well.

Buktop = Viktor in rakopisna kirilica (except for the "t"). Surely we can't hold that against him?

Bullseye

dzog you are a genius mate you are right and i humbly apologise to butop, its a great name after all. so mate any chance of you coming down for the dinner in march. i urge you to come man.

It's ok Osiris no harm no foul

[UMDiaspora.org]

It Is Past Time for Macedonia to Join NATO

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Europe/wm2784.cfm

[Risto the Great]

Here is the text.

At the Bucharest Summit in April 2008, NATO affirmed that Macedonia would become a fully fledged member of the alliance once its bilateral name dispute with Greece is resolved. Nearly two years later, Greece continues to block Macedonia's NATO membership and has extended its obstructionism to Skopje's ambitions to accede to the European Union, despite widespread support in the region and from the broader Euro-Atlantic community.

The Adriatic-3 countries--Albania, Croatia, and Macedonia--have successfully completed their Membership Action Plans, and as a result, Albania and Croatia have taken their seat at the alliance's table. It is well past time for Macedonia to join them. The United States must work with Macedonia's allies within NATO to push their accession up the agenda and pressure Greece to abide by NATO's long-standing precedent that one country does not block another's membership on a purely bilateral matter.

Greek Obstructionism

Despite the fact that more than 120 countries have recognized Macedonia by its constitutional name, Greece asserts that the Republic of Macedonia gives the nation a territorial claim over Greece's northern region of the same name.[1] Under Article 10 of the North Atlantic Treaty, all decisions on NATO enlargement must be made by unanimous consent, so Greek opposition alone is enough to block Macedonia's entry to NATO. However, bilateral disputes have traditionally been resolved outside of the alliance (such as Slovenia's border dispute with Croatia) so that one member alone does not block the consensus decisions of the others.

Greece undoubtedly has the upper hand, unashamedly wielding its veto power over Macedonia's accession despite a 1995 interim accord between the two nations agreeing not to do so. Instead of using its power to advance the stability of the transatlantic alliance, Greece is abusing its dominant position to advance its own narrow aims, which will invariably impact regional security.

Macedonia's patience is not inexhaustible, and it continues to bear the costs of courting NATO without enjoying the full benefits of membership. It will inevitably become costlier politically for Skopje to justify the time and expense of chasing NATO accession as well as its increased commitment to NATO missions such as Kosovo, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Iraq. Further, Macedonia--having recently increased its troop commitment to 250--currently has more troops serving under NATO in Afghanistan than does Greece.

The Way Forward

The U.N.-mediated talks, supporting bilateral negotiations, should continue separately from the issue of Macedonia's accession to NATO. Therefore significant diplomatic pressure will have to be applied to Athens to overcome their opposition. Macedonia has a number of powerful advocates within the alliance to push the issue, including Austrian Minister for European and International Affairs Michael Spindelegger, Slovenian Prime Minister Borut Pahor, and NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen. Significantly, the Supreme Allied Commander Europe's political advisor, Ambassador Lawrence Butler, is a former U.S. ambassador to Macedonia. And American leadership on this matter is essential.

Both U.S. Ambassador to NATO Ivo Daalder and President Obama have also been vocal supporters of NATO enlargement. NATO expansion has traditionally enjoyed strong bipartisan support in the United States, and the Obama Administration should rally congressional support for NATO's Open Door Policy, specifically pushing for the accession of Macedonia in time for the 2010 Lisbon Summit at the end of the year. Ambassador Daalder should also use the U.S.'s diplomatic channels in Europe, in concert with his colleagues in Athens, to increase international pressure on Greece to resolve this matter expeditiously.

A Fair Solution

NATO expansion has been a major success story for the alliance and has played a crucial role in stabilizing and reforming large parts of Europe. Greece was itself brought into the alliance in 1952 on the first wave of enlargement to advance Europe's strategic reach in southern Europe. Macedonia has chosen a Euro-Atlantic path for its future and met its obligations to qualify for future membership, liberalizing its economy and professionalizing its military. It has shown itself to be capable of providing--not just consuming--security and has constitutionally mandated that it has no territorial aspirations against its neighbors.[2] Its membership prospects must finally be advanced before the window of opportunity closes.

NATO must send a clear message that it remains open for business and that accession is possible for all free, democratic nations in Europe.

NATO wants Macedonia desperately. What is Macedonia getting in return? If regional security is presently compromised, then the other NATO members are surely tired of Greece. Being the poor broken down country that Greece is now, I am sure some clever NATO members can squeeze Greece where it hurts if they really want to.

[UMDiaspora.org]

Excellent points Risto!

[indigen]

Despite the fact that more than 120 countries have recognized Macedonia by its constitutional name

Macedonia does NOT have a "constitutional name". Like all other states, Macedonia has a state name - MACEDONIA!

На секому мора да му објасниме, а по се изгледа и некому меѓу нас самите, дека државата Македонија нема “уставно име”, ниту пак името на Македонија со уставната референца “Република” е некакво “композитно име”!

Едноставно, името на државата Македонија не е инаугурирано со Уставот на државата. Оваа држава, оваа земја, се викала Македонија и кога немала Устав.
Македонскиот народ така се викал и кога немал држава и кога немал Устав на држава. Оттука, апсурдно е да се тврди дека името на оваа држава е “Република Македонија” и дека тоа е “уставно име” или “композитно име”. Името на државата не произлегува од нејзиниот Устав. Во Уставот само се нотира името на државата за да се знае за која земја станува збор, односно за која земја се однесува тој Устав и се утврдува внатрешното уредување, односно политичкиот систем на земјата. За жал, и во Македонија тоа го проповедаат оние, кои се длабоко инволвирани во предлогот на Меѓународната кризна група што не е рецепт од вчера или денес, туку има повеќегодишна генеза, со цел преку институциите на системот на државата Македонија да го имплементираат предлогот на своите странски ментори, како последен културен геноцид за затворање на македонското прашање на Балканот и во Европа.

SMK-WMC: Igrite so imeto na drzhavata Makedonija

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showpost.php?p=34131&postcount=1

Greece asserts that the Republic of Macedonia gives the nation a territorial claim over Greece's northern region of the same name.[1]

HellAss does NOT have a northern region of the same name and the following thread will provide further enlightenment on this modern Greek MYTH:

Daskalot

The Greek "province" of Macedonia, fact or fiction?

I have for several years seen the term "province" used in regards to the part of Macedonia that was annexed by Greece in 1913 by Western media. There is no province of Macedonia in Greece but rather three PERIPHERIES which utilises the name of Macedonia with a geographical connector to it. The "province" of Macedonia in Greece is nothing more than fiction.
http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=2412

Macedonia has chosen a Euro-Atlantic path for its future and met its obligations to qualify for future membership,iberalizing its economy and professionalizing its military

Macedonians should do serious analysis of what the "NATO requirements" (professionalism) were/are and their consequence vis-a-vis having capacity to deal with the UCK internal menace before acting like female cheering squad members of American football teams and madly barracking for NATO membership.

[osiris]

buktop they are an organisation that blows their own trumpet too loudly and too often, when they have actually achieved something other than having offices and a few members in a couple of nations then we will afford them the respect they deserve.
in my opinion at this point they have shown nothing to get excited about.

[osiris]

why let us join when the head sherrif of nato uncle sam has already built their spy headquarters in skopje anyway. i thought you umd heads had some contacts with the us state dept why not ask them what their real intentions are, i am sure they would nver lie goddam it man americans never lie they are the good guys.

[Risto the Great]

I would be pretty annoyed if I was not North American but from America somewhere. How do the USA'ns get away with calling themselves "Americans"?

[Buktop]

buktop they are an organisation that blows their own trumpet too loudly and too often, when they have actually achieved something other than having offices and a few members in a couple of nations then we will afford them the respect they deserve.
in my opinion at this point they have shown nothing to get excited about.

Have you visited their website yet? There are a great deal of achievements that you should take a look at.

I am not saying that they are gods who's every move deserves praise, I am just saying that they do not deserve half of the hatred that we have seen. Constructive criticism is one thing, out right maliciousness is a different matter that holds no place in the Macedonian Diaspora.