United Macedonia Diaspora

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Vangelovski
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 8531

    Originally posted by amitreski View Post
    Tom

    I do not recognize the person that was part of UMD for several years.
    I'm not sure what this is referring to, but I am confident that you would be willing to sit down and come to some sort of negotiated settlement.
    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

    Comment

    • Prolet
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2009
      • 5241

      Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
      I'm not sure what this is referring to, but I am confident that you would be willing to sit down and come to some sort of negotiated settlement.
      So this is what its all about??

      You are serving your own personal interests here, it has nothing to do with the Macedonians in the Diaspora at all. If you have personal issues here with the UMD dont involve our whole diaspora because of it. What exactly is the problem here Vangelovski?? What Settlement do you wish to negotiate?? Za sto se karate??
      МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

      Comment

      • Rogi
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 2343

        I could be wrong, but I think that was a sarcastic comment?

        Comment

        • Volk
          Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 894

          yeah real surprise coming from you Pelister, did you ask any questions at the meeting? Did you personally talk to Meto and discuss your concerns?
          Makedonija vo Srce

          Comment

          • Vangelovski
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 8531

            Prolet,

            You should stop taking acid trips before you post on the forum. I was being sarcastic and alluding to UMD's willingness to compromise on the name.
            If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

            The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

            Comment

            • Soldier of Macedon
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 13670

              Volk, was that necessary?

              Are you from Adelaide? Did you attend and ask questions? Were you satisfied with Meto and his 'democratic' delusions? He still tried to justify it by saying that Macedonia is, afterall, a democratic country! Well, no shit, Macedonia also has green grass and mountains. Are you prepared to call yourself a 'democratic' Macedonian at the UN?

              Don't defend the UMD because you have a personal issue with Pelister and some others, you're better than that. Think about what is right for the Macedonian people.
              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

              Comment

              • Vangelovski
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 8531

                Originally posted by Volk View Post
                yeah real surprise coming from you Pelister, did you ask any questions at the meeting? Did you personally talk to Meto and discuss your concerns?
                Volk, if you read Pelister's post, I think he answered your questions before you even posted them...weird...
                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                Comment

                • Soldier of Macedon
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 13670

                  Originally posted by Buktop
                  If you watched the Adelaide video, Meto expressly states, it was his own personal opinion to be in favor of the Democratic prefix at the time, not the policy of UMD.

                  What Meto proposes has to be approved by all board members of UMD, or maybe Rogi can shed some light as to the decision making of UMD boards. Either way, a single board member does not have the power to change policy single handed.

                  My problem is not about criticizing Meto's or other board members' statements, it is about confusing personal opinion with UMD policy. I don't agree with some of their statements either, but I wont discredit the entire organization for it.
                  Buktop, you can't separate what the president of an organisation says from the organisation itself. If Meto was talking about a glass of coke or a packet of chips, sure, that's his personal opinion, when he talks about Macedonia and makes reference to "we" this and "we" that, every word of his will be considered as a statement from the UMD, which it is.

                  You are trying to argue on behalf of something that is completely nonsensical and not seen anywhere else in the world. I asked you before:
                  Can you show me another example of something like this where the population or membership agree with what you are saying, namely, that they accept the president of their group makes statements that apparently contradict the group's policies and are not in synch with the population or membership? A few parallels would strengthen your argument somewhat.
                  Can you?
                  In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                  Comment

                  • Prolet
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2009
                    • 5241

                    Vangelovski, Its more then clear that you have personal issues with the UMD, you can be as sarcastic as you like but whatever problem you have with the UMD dont hold the rest of us as your hostages. All i care about is Macedonia and the Macedonian cause as long as you fit into that category i will respect you just like i will respect everybody else. This isnt about you, me, Petko or Stanko this is about us being raped for decades now and finally something is being done about it.

                    I have some concerns with the UMD but as of now i havnt seen them do anything that is anti-Macedonian, there is plenty of talk but thats it.

                    As Rogi mentioned focus on Mike Rann, we have a Premier of a Large state calling us History Thieves and Slavs i think this should concern you alot more then focusing on the UMD so much.
                    МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13670

                      Originally posted by Prolet View Post
                      So this is what its all about??

                      You are serving your own personal interests here, it has nothing to do with the Macedonians in the Diaspora at all. If you have personal issues here with the UMD dont involve our whole diaspora because of it. What exactly is the problem here Vangelovski?? What Settlement do you wish to negotiate?? Za sto se karate??
                      Prolet, I notice that Maknews just gave you a serving for basically nothing. Are you trying to play the other side of the coin now? What is happening now needs to happen, the Macedonian people must be made aware of the exact intentions of each group claiming to work on their behalf. The UMD are not exempt from this.

                      Would it help you feel better, if I was to say everything Tom is saying, given that I have no previous 'issues' with the UMD nor any personal interest in seeing them criticised? It is still the same thing. Some of you are trying to diminish the significance of what he is saying due to his former role with the UMD, you are allowing this to cloud your view about the whole matter. Open your eyes to what is really going on here, there is a clear trail of UMD statements that, if put together, are very concerning for the Macedonian Diaspora.

                      I am more adamant about this now, because many of us chose to remain ignorant and believe that Pelister, Vangelovski and co. were head-hunting the UMD, however, when I actually decided that enough was enough and took a look for myself to see what is really going on, it became more than obvious that these guys were correct from the beginning. Now, there is alot of stench emanating from the UMD. From discouraging people to celebrate their full history, to accepting name changes, to supporting anti-Macedonian agreements, to showing understanding for enemies of the state, etc. I am a logical person, and logic will not allow me to keep my eyes closed to this.

                      The worst of it all, hardly anything has been properly acknowledged, and even when it has, it is followed up by some half-ass justification.
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • Vangelovski
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 8531

                        Prolet, statements in support of a name change, the Interim Accord and the Framework Agreement, in my view, are anti-Macedonian - and that is my "issue" with UMD.

                        I'm holding you "hostage"? How so?
                        If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                        The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                        Comment

                        • Risto the Great
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 15658

                          Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                          I just want to summarise, because it is becoming a little confusing. So what we have is...

                          1. UMD does not support any name change whatsoever.

                          2. The President and public figure of UMD has reaffirmed support for a name change to 'Democratic'.

                          3. UMD's President defines a name change as a change in Macedonia's Constitution, not the name used in the United Nations*


                          These statements are creating a lot of confusion, albeit not to those who are not so naive.


                          * In the video of the Adelaide forum, Meto is recorded as saying that 'Democratic' may be acceptable for the EU, NATO and United Nations 'only' (definition of name change).


                          I have been saying for nearly 2 years now that the way a name change will eventually be 'sold' to the Macedonian people is by 'selling' it as a replacement of 'fYROM' and not as a name change (because the Constitutional name won't change).

                          This play on the definition of what a name change really means, is but a trick and a way to dupe the Macedonian people into remaining subservient and apathetic.
                          Totally agree.
                          Risto the Great
                          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                          Comment

                          • Volk
                            Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 894

                            Hey SOM, I am in Adelaide and did attend the conference.

                            I can give an unbiased break down of the event, unlike other people.

                            I thought the initial speech was a bit of a sell, basically trying to sell UMD. Having said that, it was very informative, Meto went into great detail on how the organisation works and what it strives to achieve.

                            Question time later gave the community an opportunity to vent somewhat. Quite frankly what I saw was disturbing, desperate people looking for a leader.

                            Unfortunatly Risto's questions/ concerns where not allowed to run their course, although Meto did seem willing and even wanted to discuss them.

                            I also had a chance to talk to Meto for a considerable amount of time.
                            My impressions of him were very good, we discussed all issues and the main point is that he is fully focused on our cause, and in my opinion the most active person in the Diaspora. (from my knowledge)

                            I believe there is a small culture clash between the Australian and US mannerisms regarding Macedonia, Australians being much more confrontational. This stems from the levels of racism we have had to endure, and the latest comments from Rann simply back that up.

                            As for the Democratic statement, I think it's being blown way out of proportion. UMD is not pushing for this solution, nor is it a realistic solution. Talking about it is simply a waste of time, everyone has moved on but I will give you my thoughts since you asked.

                            With a name like Democratic, or Holy, or any other BS, the country is still named Macedonia. Unlike Northern ect, keeping this in mind that this kind of prefix was to replace FYROM, not our constitutional name.

                            If it meant that we had to accept Democratic in order to achieve our strategic goals; most important being maintaining national identity, ethnicity, language, ALL of history, recognition by greece and bulgaria and ending the oppression then I think its a pill we could ultimately swallow to end the genocide on our people.

                            Only if all of the above was achieved from it and nothing less.
                            Makedonija vo Srce

                            Comment

                            • Prolet
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2009
                              • 5241

                              SOM, Its up to everybody to believe what they like, its one thing to say something its another actually doing it. When i see the UMD attempting to try and do something that is against our cause this is when i will start with the head hunting as you call it. I personally defended Pelister on the Maknews forum and i got into Maknews's bad books he is pissed off with me but i cant change my views and i was probably the first to defend Pelister not that i fully support his views but the fact that i do share some of his concerns. I also believe in Freedom of Speech without personal attacks so no SOM i dont blame you for thinking that way you have your views and i respect that however with all this bickering and talking its not going to get us very far thats all.

                              Here is the reality about the UMD

                              Its a small organization

                              Its purpose is for lobbying around the world

                              They have pretty much no political power whats so ever in Macedonia

                              They are not a well founded organization they had to do fund raisers to host "A Name is a Name" in North America. Thats the reality.

                              Vangelovski, While you have personal issues with the UMD you are making karanici with those who support the UMD and we cant focus on other things like how justice will be done towards our people who were made worthless by the SA Premier. I told you that i have some concerns myself about the UMD and i asked A Mitreski some questions and so forth instead of accusing eachother of who said what we should be looking for the future and see what we can do next, so my advise is to have a proper chat with A Mitreski and Metodija and have a proper civil discussion like gentlemen, mistakes where made and its time to clear them up is that so difficult?? The UMD will learn that 5 people dont decide the fate of the Millions of Macedonians in the Diaspora and i think they will also agree with that.
                              МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                              Comment

                              • Vangelovski
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 8531

                                Prolet,

                                What exactly do you think I was doing (when you advise me to hold "propper" discussions with Meto and Aleks) the entire time I was with UMD?
                                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X