Financial Crisis in Greece

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  • I of Macedon
    Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 222

    Club should beware of bearing gifts to the Greeks

    Why fellow members of the club should beware of bearing gifts to the Greeks

    In political terms, Greece is an ungrateful basket case and a serious underachiever in the EU, writes Eamon Delaney


    Sunday May 09 2010


    LAST week's violent reaction of the Greeks to the foreign aid package which is supposed to save their budgetary bacon says it all, but the reality is that you couldn't pick a less desirable country to bail out in the European Union than Greece.

    Not 'undesirable' in the sense of blue skies, aquamarine seas and sunshine. No, that's all fine. But in political terms, the country is an ungrateful basket case and, in the EU, it has been a perennial awkward customer. Since the moment of their dubious entry in 1981, the Greeks have quite frankly underachieved and contributed very little to the development of the EU. Except problems.

    When I was in the UN as a diplomat, it was an open joke: who was minding the door of the club when the Greeks got in? Their attitude was almost always 'what's in it for Greece?' as opposed to what is good for the EU too. When Ireland got massive EU Structural Funds in the Nineties, we built roads and infrastructure, but when similar funding went to Greece in the Eighties, it was siphoned away through corruption and graft, much of it under the Pasok socialist regime -- and this waste has contributed to the mess the Greeks are in today.

    The irony is that the Greeks have been the most vociferous opponents of keeping out of the EU their old enemy Turkey and yet there are aspects of modern Turkish society and its robust economy which show up Greece for the sclerotic, over-unionised backwater that it is. Try telling that to Lucinda Creighton the next time she talks about keeping the poor old Turks out of the EU.

    The Greeks' attitude to foreign policy used to be that the Turks were to blame for everything and they wasted no opportunity in raising their bilateral dispute, waving it around like a 'sore thumb'. It was something we had learned to stop doing with Britain and Northern Ireland where you only end up boring the rest of the world to death. But such is the hot-headed attitude of the Greeks to their national issues that they almost went to war twice with Turkey in the last 20 years. We're talking full scale war, among fellow Nato members. How would German taxpayers feel about funding that?

    Of course, in the cynical world of diplomacy, this has some merit for the Irish. As one salty old ambassador put it, "my boy, as long as they are in the club, we will always look good!" The reality was that Greece was quickly admitted to the EU to safeguard its democracy, after emerging from decades of military rule in 1975, but it was soon clear that the country had structural and cultural problems quite different to the rest of the EU states. It was the first time that a country had come in that was not directly neighbouring another EU country. It must be remembered that, at that stage and for a long time, the EU comprised 12 states, the fondly remembered Les Douze, and so there was less of a hiding place for a moderately problematic member state than there is today. Now, Greece's problems are such that there is no hiding place at all, since we're all tied together with the euro.

    In my own time as a diplomat, the Greeks always played ducks and drakes with any attempt to create a meaningful EU foreign policy. They cosied up to the Eastern Bloc countries when they were still communist. Greece itself almost went communist in 1947, but was prevented from doing so by Winston Churchill, and the continuing presence of a strong communist influence is one reason why it has the unreformed centralised economy, and crippling debt, which you and I are now going to pay for.

    On the subject of Cyprus, a dispute so vexatious, it makes the North looked like a garden party, the Greeks have wanted to have it both ways -- supporting an independent Cyprus that would unite Greek and Turkish Cypriots, but also at various stages supporting a 'closer' relationship with the island and even a political union. When I pointed this out to my hosts on a trip to Cyprus, the welcoming ouzo was quickly withdrawn from the table. Granted, we were on a tourist board press trip (next stop, Ayia Napa) and political questions were not exactly top of the agenda but I just had to question why so many Greek flags were provocatively flying everywhere. But that's the Greeks, or Greek Cypriots in this case: they don't see the contradictions. Or the other perspective.

    However, the low point of Greek foreign policy was its unwillingness to recognise the former Yugoslav state of Macedonia, because it took the old name of one of their ancient regions. Worse still, this meant that the Greeks could also veto the EU's recognition of the name and so for most of its existence Macedonia has been known as the FYRM (Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia). Can you imagine being a Macedonian football fan: "Come on, the FYRM!". The Greeks call it 'Skopje', the name of its capital. When I protested to my diplomatic colleagues that this was ridiculous and why was Ireland going along with it, the salty old ambassador piped up to say that "it was in the bag for us if there was ever an attempt to rename Northern Ireland as Ulster. We'd make sure the EU opposed it". But really, it was also about the bolshie behaviour of the Greeks making us look good.

    The reality is that Greece is a country with which we have little kinship, apart from the study of the classics, sun holidays and if you're lucky enough (or, these days, unlucky enough) the ownership of a whitewashed holiday home. I mean, how many Greek celebrities or famous people do you know? How many of us work with Greeks, or know them socially? Very few. It is, in many ways, a closed society, and the least socially mixed in the EU.

    So, if you had to think of a fellow EU country that you would enjoy bailing out, Greece would not be top of the list. Unless, of course, the Greeks were offering some of their lovely islands in exchange -- which is more or less what one German newspaper was suggesting when the Germans were being asked, once again, to stump up for our ailing Mediterranean cousins.

    Sunday Independent

    No need to sit in the shade, because we stand under our own sun

    Comment

    • Sportster
      Banned
      • May 2010
      • 97

      Bet you this guy is pissed of because he didnt get his cut this time.
      It amazes me how all of a suddened we are so bad and we been so bad for the past 25 years but if soomeone looks at the list of which country got most of the EU money per year will see that Greece was the No1 for 23 yeqars out of the 25. Now how can that happen? Why would you keep giving your money to someone like us? Why would you even now hand of the world's largest bailout amount? let me tell you why my firends...Because we always made sure that we slipped something under the table to them, now that not very ungreatfull is it?
      As far as the island, well thats interesting lets talk about it.

      Comment

      • julie
        Senior Member
        • May 2009
        • 3869

        Is that the hand Greece played with the partitioning of Macedonia?
        "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

        Comment

        • Frank
          Banned
          • Mar 2010
          • 687

          Why would you even now hand of the world's largest bailout amount? let me tell you why my firends.
          I will tell you why my fiend because Greece thier creation and toy needs to float and be a buffer to Turkey and dear God not ever be under US influence not to mention the myth of Europen Democracy is based on keeping alive and kicking the debris of Ancient Hellas.

          In that way u r important not becuase you deserve anything but then again I think you understand that.

          Comment

          • Sportster
            Banned
            • May 2010
            • 97

            Originally posted by Frank View Post
            I will tell you why my fiend because Greece thier creation and toy needs to float and be a buffer to Turkey and dear God not ever be under US influence not to mention the myth of Europen Democracy is based on keeping alive and kicking the debris of Ancient Hellas.

            In that way u r important not becuase you deserve anything but then again I think you understand that.
            You got a point. hey who cares as long as they pay.

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15658

              The single unit currency is killing Greece. It cannot compare to the real nations and has little to offer. This realisation will cause great civil unrest in the years to come as Greece must learn to embrace the fact that it is not an economically stable and progressive European nation. It should reinvent itself and look closer to the Balkans for commonality. It could start by embracing its neighbour in Macedonia.
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • Onur
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2010
                • 2389

                But such is the hot-headed attitude of the Greeks to their national issues that they almost went to war twice with Turkey in the last 20 years. We're talking full scale war, among fellow Nato members. How would German taxpayers feel about funding that?...

                On the subject of Cyprus, a dispute so vexatious, it makes the North looked like a garden party, the Greeks have wanted to have it both ways -- supporting an independent Cyprus that would unite Greek and Turkish Cypriots, but also at various stages supporting a 'closer' relationship with the island and even a political union.

                This sentence could be the most naive and soft one to describe the real situation. First of all Greece NEVER desired an independent Cyprus. If there is a state called Cyprus now, it`s because of the existance of Turkey, otherwise Greece could annex it long time ago by committing genocide of Turkish people. How come you claim this while pain and suffering they caused with "EOKA" still fresh in people`s mind, especially the Turkish Cypriots. They formed a terrorist organization with an ultimate goal of achieving the enosis of Cyprus with Greece(Enosis meaning "union", refers to the Greek-Cypriot population to incorporate the island of Cyprus into Greece). First, they assassinated British people in the island. Then they forced Turkish Cypriots to live in ghettos and eventually leads their immigration out of the island and at 1974, Greece organized a coup-d`etat in Cyprus by sending 20.000 Greek soldiers there. These soldiers hunted down the Turkish people like animals and put 20.000+ of them in death camps like the Nazis did to the Jews. I don't even mention the atrocities they did towards Turkish people for years.

                That was the case `till Turkey intervened with the full rights we have with international treaty signed between Greece and Turkey before. Since 1974 intervention, not a single blood spilled and we finally have peace in the island.

                That was the first attempt of Greek fascists to test the patience of Turkish people. After these events, Turkey asked USA government to over-throne CIA supported Junta regime in Greece otherwise we were going to engage war with Greece and wipe them out by going to Athens. In the end, CIA over-throne their fellow Generals Junta but it was done by Turkey`s will anyway. We still didn't get any word of apology and thankfulness from Greece even tough we restored democracy in there after 8 years of Nazi like Junta regime. Instead, they blame us for "occupation" in Cyprus for 37 years. Thats really pathetic and sad for them.

                Whats more pathetic is; EU accepted Greek Cyprus as a member few years ago as a representative of whole island!!!! Turkish state of northern Cyprus is still very much alive for 30 years and there is nothing about EU in it. They can continue to deny the fact and force an unfair embargo upon Turkish victims of enosis in the island. We just don't care at all. We funded Turkish state for 30 years and we can do it forever. Economically funding a small island with 300.000 people can never be a problem for Turkey anyway but we condemn EU for supporting an unfair embargo which forced by their spoiled kid Greece upon them.


                Their 2nd attempt to test our patience was their stupid actions on a tiny rocky island named Kardak(Imia) where no creature of god lives. That island is clearly visible from Turkish coast by naked-eye, so its that close to us and they sent Greek naval force on it and tried to occupy it all of a sudden. In the end we shot down one of their helicopter and Greek soldiers fled like chickens, sorry "fishes" actually but they caused major crisis again anyway.



                All in all, They still owe us a gratitude but i thank every Greek and other fascists who blocked Turkey to enter a stupid Empire called EU. I am very grateful to them for this. I hope all of them goes "kaput" in the end since it would be good riddance.
                Last edited by Onur; 05-09-2010, 08:26 PM.

                Comment

                • Onur
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2010
                  • 2389

                  Originally posted by Onur View Post
                  First of all Greece NEVER desired an independent Cyprus. If there is a state called Cyprus now, it`s because of the existance of Turkey, otherwise Greece could annex it long time ago by doing genocide upon Turkish people.




                  By 15 July 1974 a powerful force of mainland Greek troops had assembled in Cyprus and with their backing the Greek Cypriot National Guard overthrew Makarios and installed one Nicos Sampson as "President." Rauf Denktas, the leader of the Turkish Cypriots, declared Sampson's appointment as 'unacceptable as Adolf Hitler being made President of Israel'. On 22nd July Washington Star News reported: "Bodies littered the streets and there were mass burials . . . People told by Makarios to lay down their guns were shot by the National Guard."

                  Turkish Cypriots appealed to the Guarantor powers for help, but only Turkey was willing to make any effective response." On 20 July 1974 Turkey intervened under Article IV of the Treaty of Guarantee"—(UK Foreign & Commonwealth Office doc. CPS/75, Jan, 1987).

                  The Greek newspaper Eleftherotipia published an interview with Nicos Sampson on 26 February 1981 in which he said "Had Turkey not intervened I would not only have proclaimed ENOSIS—I would have annihilated the Turks of Cyprus."

                  http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmfaff/113/113we45.htm





                  Greeks are actually lucky that Turkish people is much more patient and forgiving comparing to western nations otherwise we could eradicate Greece after their crimes against humanity. It was close tough, USA and their CIA saved their ass in the last minute.





                  This is the video recorded by British reporters at 1974 which shows the 20.000+ Turkish people in death camps begging for bread from EOKA terrorists;
                  YouTube - BBC Archives: Exclusive images of 20 000 Turkish Cypriot hostages held by the Greeks in 1974

                  This video kept hidden in British archives for 36 years. They only published it last year for the first time. Sadly, most of these terrorists are still alive, living at Greek Cypriot atm but none of them stand trialed for their crimes. Instead, Greek government gave them medal of honor.




                  AND now look at the EU member Greek Cypriot celebrating the terrorist acts of EOKA every year;
                  YouTube - Cyprus Remembrance day for the EOKA struggle (1/2)


                  They announce terrorists as martyrs even tough they sentenced EOKA leaders and Junta generals to death after Turkey restored the democracy in both Cyprus and Greece.




                  Youtube comments for this video;
                  Omadae2@ The average turkish cypriots were vastly hellenized and never wanted to kill greek cypriots.

                  MrSkaramanga@ We must be patient and BELIEVE The Hellenic spirit is INDOMITABLE.

                  ranto4@ Honor to the Heroes. we will never forget them. their dreams will come true one day

                  costaspet111@ a good turk is a dead turk

                  Greeksuperiority@ eoka isn't terrosrists.you deserv all muslims to be fucked killed and dead like Sebrenica.

                  MegaBrka@ serbian people suport greece forewer

                  lifeshoat@ i visited the graves and cried. very sad true heros

                  tiheragomo@ What gave EOKA the right to initiate killing of Turks in Cyprus in the name of Enosis. Before the Enosis movement started, we were living together peacefully, having coffee, and taking care of each others' children. God bless the Greeks who warned my family to flee in order to avoid being killed. God bless the Greeks who couldn't understand why EOKA was killing their Turkish friends! God bless the Greeks who genuinely pray for peace and love with their Turkish friends!
                  Last edited by Onur; 05-09-2010, 07:49 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Sportster
                    Banned
                    • May 2010
                    • 97

                    Originally posted by Onur View Post
                    [FONT="Verdana"]

                    Greeks are actually lucky that Turkish people is much more patient and forgiving comparing to western nations otherwise we could eradicate Greece after their crimes against humanity. It was close tough, USA and their CIA saved their ass in the last minut
                    alo alo what have we got here? A Turkish Rambo?
                    How you going kardashi? Buried alive any disrespectfull daughters that kissed the boy next door lately?
                    We love Ertogan give him my regards!!

                    Comment

                    • Bill77
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2009
                      • 4545

                      Sportster, how about you comment on Onur's actual post. What is the problem? did he expose some truth which hit a raw nerve?
                      http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13670

                        Originally posted by Sportster View Post
                        alo alo what have we got here? A Turkish Rambo?
                        How you going kardashi? Buried alive any disrespectfull daughters that kissed the boy next door lately?
                        We love Ertogan give him my regards!!
                        Hey, would you mind speaking with a little more tact rather than like a moron on some Athenian street corner? You're combination of immaturity and idiocy isn't apprecaited.
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • Sportster
                          Banned
                          • May 2010
                          • 97

                          Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                          Hey, would you mind speaking with a little more tact rather than like a moron on some Athenian street corner? You're combination of immaturity and idiocy isn't apprecaited.
                          Im just quoting news headlines. And your immidiate insults (you just came on and posted 3 swearing and threatening posts to me) are any better?

                          Comment

                          • Onur
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2010
                            • 2389

                            Originally posted by Sportster View Post
                            alo alo what have we got here? A Turkish Rambo?
                            How you going kardashi? Buried alive any disrespectfull daughters that kissed the boy next door lately?
                            We love Ertogan give him my regards!!


                            Thanks for your contribution but you know, its not that necessity to be Rambo to deal with losers like you. Thats your problem, not us, so tell your fascist soldiers to chant louder at the streets of Athens, ok?


                            Ohh btw, I guess Erdogan will be in poor Greece in few weeks, so you can tell him yourself. I heard your American president papandreu desperately insists Erdogan to come for help but Erdogan postponed it after we saw that you the "precious children of Homer" burned alive pregnant women in banks. We prefer for him to be in a much more safer and democratic place like Uganda for example.

                            Comment

                            • Soldier of Macedon
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 13670

                              Originally posted by Sportster
                              Im just quoting news headlines. And your immidiate insults (you just came on and posted 3 swearing and threatening posts to me) are any better?
                              Levelling the playing field for one instance, I notice you didn't appreciate it, next time consider the perception by others of your dribble. If you were "just" quoting news headlines, where is the link and source?
                              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                              Comment

                              • Sportster
                                Banned
                                • May 2010
                                • 97

                                Originally posted by Onur View Post
                                Thanks for your contribution but you know, its not that necessity to be Rambo to deal with losers like you. Thats your problem, not us, so tell your fascist soldiers to chant louder at the streets of Athens, ok?


                                Ohh btw, I guess Erdogan will be in poor Greece in few weeks, so you can tell him yourself. I heard your American president papandreu desperately insists Erdogan to come for help but Erdogan postponed it after we saw that you the "precious children of Homer" burned alive pregnant women in banks. We prefer for him to be in a much more safer and democratic place like Uganda for example.
                                be nice if you want to get in Europe

                                Comment

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