United Macedonia Diaspora

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  • Vangelovski
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 8531

    Rogi,

    Please do some basic research on constitutionalism and republicanism and then read the Macedonian constitution in light of that.

    I know that you're an intelligent person, don't let apologists for the name negotiations blur your thinking.
    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

    Comment

    • Vangelovski
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 8531

      You want me to trawel through thousands of emails - many of which contain current UMD Board members arguing that a name change would be acceptable - to find the EXACT date I resigned. Isn't Jan/Feb 2008 good enough? What if I accidently post the wrong email on here?
      If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

      The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

      Comment

      • Buktop
        Member
        • Oct 2009
        • 934

        Thank you Rogi, at least some body here understands what is going on and has ACTUALLY READ the constitution...

        Vangelovski, I gave you enough opportunity to read it for yourself, whether you let your hatred towards me blind your own judgment or whether you never actually read the constitution, I really could care less, but maybe you should learn to admit when you are basing arguments on personal opinion or actual facts.
        "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

        Never once say you walk upon your final way
        though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
        Our long awaited hour will draw near
        and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

        Comment

        • Buktop
          Member
          • Oct 2009
          • 934

          Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
          Rogi,

          Please do some basic research on constitutionalism and republicanism and then read the Macedonian constitution in light of that.

          I know that you're an intelligent person, don't let apologists for the name negotiations blur your thinking.
          Rogi quoted THE CONSTITUTION of the Republic of Macedonia, what more proof do you need? Are you that stubborn that you can't realize that your fight is with the wording of the constitution rather than the people who disagree with you?
          "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

          Never once say you walk upon your final way
          though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
          Our long awaited hour will draw near
          and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

          Comment

          • Buktop
            Member
            • Oct 2009
            • 934

            Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
            You want me to trawel through thousands of emails - many of which contain current UMD Board members arguing that a name change would be acceptable - to find the EXACT date I resigned. Isn't Jan/Feb 2008 good enough? What if I accidently post the wrong email on here?
            I am just shocked that a co-founding member of UMD doesn't remember the date which he resigned from the position, especially given that it was only 2 years ago and that you haven't stopped talking about UMD's secret agenda ever since.
            "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

            Never once say you walk upon your final way
            though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
            Our long awaited hour will draw near
            and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15658

              C'mon Buktop, it really is not that shocking.
              Why don't you ask Vangelovski precisely WHY he resigned rather than precisely WHEN?
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • Rogi
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 2343

                He resigned on Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 9:57 AM, though that was just the end of what had been going on for months prior and perhaps years.

                Internally among the UMD Board, there were many, many emails and discussions against almost every UMD press release, consistently, with the same arguments being made today. I recall that, despite the attempt, we never did get a clarification or clear response from everyone outlining clear individual positions.

                I know why he left and I share his views and positions on Macedonia. Though I remained on the board until a few weeks ago, I did my best back then to convince Vangelovski to stay on the UMD Board and keep the balance.

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15658

                  Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                  I know why he left and I share his views and positions on Macedonia. Though I remained on the board until a few weeks ago, I did my best back then to convince Vangelovski to stay on the UMD Board and keep the balance.
                  Thanks Rogi.
                  Buktop, where do you think the "balance" is now that 2 like minded people in Rogi and Vangelovski are now no longer involved with the UMD?
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • Buktop
                    Member
                    • Oct 2009
                    • 934

                    He resigned on Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 9:57 AM
                    March 14 2008 is a month after the UMD bylaws were adopted and announced. Vangelovski has continuously claimed that he had no idea of the final bylaws, and also attempted to instigate problems in relation to UMD board member elections, WHICH are stated in the bylaws... Why has he repeatedly misrepresented UMD when he is fully aware of the finalized bylaws that were approved February 16, 2008?
                    Last edited by Buktop; 01-14-2010, 08:30 AM.
                    "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                    Never once say you walk upon your final way
                    though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                    Our long awaited hour will draw near
                    and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                    Comment

                    • Rogi
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 2343

                      To be clear, I'm not agreeing with either side of this argument, purely because I'm out of my element here and just don't know enough; I am not a Constitutional Law expert.

                      The Constitutional Law professor in Macedonia with whom I have been in contact, believes the Government has the Constitutional power to do what it is doing - which should not be the case.

                      In quoting the Constitution above, the point I tried to make is that this argument does not seem so black and white, it seems rather subjective and from what I have been reading here, it could probably go either way in the Constitutional Court.

                      Comment

                      • TajnataKniga
                        Member
                        • Dec 2009
                        • 196

                        question

                        Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                        He resigned on Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 9:57 AM, though that was just the end of what had been going on for months prior and perhaps years.

                        Internally among the UMD Board, there were many, many emails and discussions against almost every UMD press release, consistently, with the same arguments being made today. I recall that, despite the attempt, we never did get a clarification or clear response from everyone outlining clear individual positions.

                        I know why he left and I share his views and positions on Macedonia. Though I remained on the board until a few weeks ago, I did my best back then to convince Vangelovski to stay on the UMD Board and keep the balance.
                        rogi, can you shed some more light to this? why did you leave UMD?

                        Comment

                        • TajnataKniga
                          Member
                          • Dec 2009
                          • 196

                          are any of you constitutional law experts? i mean c'mon. the constitution of any country is open to interpretation. the supreme court of the us constantly interpreted the constitution over and over again on each case.

                          Comment

                          • TajnataKniga
                            Member
                            • Dec 2009
                            • 196

                            severely

                            Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
                            prolet, it didn't matter in the slightest how much money the diaspora gave (or didn't) to the war effort in 2001...the outcome was predetermined by the USA...even if our diaspora had the means to raise billions of dollars the outcome would have been EXACTLY the same...at the end of the day our access to arms was cut-off and the ability to move arms into Macedonia was cut-off...they're some serious issues to overcome when you're fighting a war.

                            The sad thing is that as a people we don't learn...after a few years we're right in bed with the people that did everything in their power to destroy us.
                            you are severely clueless. albos were raising $2 million at one fundraiser for politicans, macedonians were raising $0. dont give me no BS that the situation was predetermined, predetermined by our lack of unity and organization. verska njemash.

                            Comment

                            • TajnataKniga
                              Member
                              • Dec 2009
                              • 196

                              risto, i privated you to call them up and get us an answer so we can end this 'witch hunt'. nobody wants to take the leadership. jankovska?

                              Comment

                              • Prolet
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2009
                                • 5241

                                TK, First tell us which country you are from
                                МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                                Comment

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