NATIONALISM AND THE MIDDLE AGES: The Myth of Creation of Slavic-Bulgarian Nation...

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  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15658

    #91
    Very refreshing outlook. Great stuff.
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

    Comment

    • Pelister
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 2742

      #92
      Originally posted by makedonin View Post
      No mistery there. It is called control.

      As long it is guaranteed that everybody will feel and see them self as "Greek" or in other "National-States" or what ever other "National Belonging" (i.e. Bulgarians are of same type), and make this "National Belonging" equal with Ethnicity, they will make sure that they maintain control over it's population i.e the Population maintains control over it self by trying to justify the Views that has been thought to know as Truth.

      Recognizing Other Ethnicity inside of a National State is always seen as danger of separatism, as it was the case in Yugoslavia.

      and that than again makes the leaders fear losing lands and equally money.

      It is all about Control, Lands and Money.

      This is no new Goal of the so called Leaders of countries.
      It is only modern Strategy. Earlier in Human History it was done by Sword, now it is done with National i.e. Ethnic Agenda.

      Even the Americans implement this Agenda as National State bind Pathriotism. The only difference is that they are to "obviously different" to be able to implement the "Nationa-Belonging" Agenda as Ethnic one.

      pozdrav
      The nation states that do not recognize minorities usually have the most to hide, and tend to be far more aware of their very shaky and delicate beginnings. Another element is that they tend to have been created Top-down, meaning usually a foreign force had to come in and create the state, whereas the minorities they screw over, are usually more solid, have closer ties to the land, are for the most part natives of the land, who tried to liberate themselves (without help) and failed. It's a sad twist of fate, that Albanians, under forieng military comman, help create a Greece; and less than 50 years later, a native home grown Macedonian uprising, produces nothing.

      Comment

      • Delodephius
        Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 736

        #93
        One day, when humans lost the sense of fear, nations will die out.
        अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
        उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
        This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
        But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

        Comment

        • Pelister
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 2742

          #94
          Originally posted by Slovak/Anomaly/Tomas View Post
          One day, when humans lost the sense of fear, nations will die out.
          That may well be true.

          But people need to be governed.

          Nations are a way to protect the people living inside from others. Otherwise, Australia would be flooded with millions of Chinese every year. Now, from a demographic point of view, it would make Australia more ethnically Chinese. It would lose its British identity ... etc. Probably wouldn't bother some people. Can you imagine the stress on local resources ... on water management, or food production, and so many other things. Sure, some people don't mind sharing, but what if it is your family being impacted? So, people are naturally afraid of when the basic things in life are threatened. A nation offers some degree of security in that sense. But its very uneven too.

          I can appreciate your point of view.

          Comment

          • Nexus
            Junior Member
            • Oct 2012
            • 73

            #95
            "If the formation of the South Slav peoples was a mechanical and political process it would not be impossible that it might recur in present times. Within the South Slav language complex there are several branches outside the Serbian and Bulgarian political units; these are the Macedonian dialects. These branches, since they are closely allied, naturally have some connection linking them more closely with Bulgarian in the east and Serbian in the north. These branches have been given various names at various times but it was not until the last quarter of the nineteenth century that these names overlapped so much as to displace one another. These various names did not properly catch on, and gradually they began to give way until finally they were replaced by the natural description Slav" with a "Macedonian" reflection from the geographical area in which they were distributed. The people who spoke these dialects had once been called "Slavs" and later either "Serbs" or "Bulgarians" until the rivalry between these two names made them both alien to the Macedonian Slavs, who started calling themselves after the old geographical name of their country. The name Macedonian was first used by the Macedonian Slavs as a geographical term to indicate their origin. This name is well known to the Macedonian Slavs and all of them use it to describe themselves. Since the formation of nationalities is a political and mechanical process, all the necessary conditions exist for Macedonia to break off as an independent ethnographic region. The Macedonians have a common country which is gradually, with the reforms, breaking off into an independent political whole in which there are "several branches of the South Slav chain of languages": these branches can easily be united through a general recognition of the central one as the means of expression of the literary language of all intelligent people in Macedonia and as the language of books and schools. Thus all the conditions for the national revival of the Macedonians are clearly visible, and, even from the point of view of the other historical theory (concerning the formation of small ethnographic units from a larger unit on the Balkan Peninsula), this is completely logical.

            Here is what one might say to those who claim that Macedonian as a nationality has never existed: it may not have existed in the past, but it exists today and will exist in the future."
            I don't get Misirkov point. If someone can explain me the text, it would be great. It certainly because of my lack of understanding in this language.

            -Is Misirkov saying that the Macedonian national consciousness was born because of the rivalry between the Serbs and Bulgars?
            -Did the slavic-speaking population of Macedonia has began to use the term "Macedonian" to describe themselves just in a geographic way?
            -Did the slavic-speaking peoples of Macedonia have felt at the time like belonging to a distinct nation, a Macedonian nation?
            -But even if they didn't felt a national consciousness, they were ethnic Macedonians [about the slavic-speaking population of Macedonia], right?
            -At the time, a macedonian from Solun, and one from Kratovo, did they feel like being of the same nation, brothers?
            -Did Misirkov think that the Macedonians were descendants of Alexander the Great and the ancient Macedonians, Kiril i Metodi, etc ...?
            -Misirkov is saying that Macedonian as nationality may not have existed in the past, but the ethnic Macedonians, even if they didn't have a "nationality" in the past have existed, right?
            -Or is he just saying that the slavs of Macedonia began to form a nation, because of the [externals] politicals events at the time. The construction of the Macedonian nation is recent, but that doesn't mean that Macedonians [slavic-speaking peoples] didn't exist prior that construction, am i right?
            -A last question : Did the several occupations that affected the Macedonian region did break the national consciousness of the Macedonians? There was an ancient Macedonian nation, one of the first nation with the greeks of the history of human civilization, and the several occupations (Roman, Byzantine, Ottoman) destroyed the consciousness of the ancient Macedonians, the population of Macedonia have evolved, and by the end of the last Empire, a "new" Macedonian consciousness was born, is it a coincidence ?

            Sorry for the question but this text disturb me, Risto the Great you seems to understand well that text, can you help me?

            Comment

            • TrueMacedonian
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2009
              • 3810

              #96
              Oh geez man we've known since your first post that you weren't a Macedonian. We also knew from your self deleted posts. You're the same retard who can't answer why his own ancestors spoke Albanian.
              Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

              Comment

              • George S.
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2009
                • 10116

                #97
                nexus there's quite a number of historical books written on how it talks about a whole of macedonia on the map.It doesn't talk about slavic macedonia it's simply macedonia.There is no use speculating about slavicism as labeling one slavic is used by others as part of their bs propaganda to say they are less macedonian or that they don't desrve to be called anything.There isn't such a thing as a slav nation it is simply a macedonian nation.
                Macedonia was allways a country or a nation you can read about it in any library.
                "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                GOTSE DELCEV

                Comment

                • George S.
                  Senior Member
                  • Aug 2009
                  • 10116

                  #98
                  nexus if you are an albanian posing as a macedonian you should do yourself a favour & us & get out of here.
                  "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                  GOTSE DELCEV

                  Comment

                  • Nexus
                    Junior Member
                    • Oct 2012
                    • 73

                    #99
                    Seriously guys don't be so paranoid, i'm Macedonian and i feel offended. What did i write in my previous message that say that i'm a shiptar of a greek? Did I say slavic Macedonia? Did I say slavs? I just say that in Macedonia, there are slavic-speaking peoples and theses peoples are Macedonians. I just search for help to understand a text a little bit difficult, since english is a foreign language for me and i know this is your first language for the most of you. I want to understand Misirkov points [not like Petros Houhoulis], and i thought that i will find help here. Yes i self deleted posts, the ones that i found useless personally. There is nothing suspicious in that. And what in my questions bother you?
                    Last edited by Nexus; 01-22-2013, 06:03 AM.

                    Comment

                    • momce
                      Banned
                      • Oct 2012
                      • 426

                      Hopefully for the greekos we are not Slavs because then we are 300 million...

                      Comment

                      • George S.
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 10116

                        not only are greeks slavs but albanians are slavs too.They shouldn't hide from it.They can be accused for the same thing they are accusing us from.There has been umteen books written that the slavs went right through hellas,albania ,serbia,turkey,greece,bulgaria.They should also partake of the slav label in all fairness.Who are these people supposed to kid face reality.THere you are on your malaka websites spouting total un truths face reality you too can be accused of being a SLAV.So labelling macedonia as only a slav is a falsehood.
                        wake up to yourselves.you just using it for your own propaganda purposes.Remember under serb occupation macedonians were told as part of their serb propaganda that macedonians should embrace in the glory of being slavs & forget as to the fact they were & are macedonians.
                        "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                        GOTSE DELCEV

                        Comment

                        • momce
                          Banned
                          • Oct 2012
                          • 426

                          Well said. greece really is just the ruling class and their hen house

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13670

                            Originally posted by Nexus View Post
                            I just search for help to understand a text a little bit difficult, since english is a foreign language for me and i know this is your first language for the most of you.
                            For a foreign language you seem to write in it well enough. What is your first language? Do you speak Macedonian? What region of Macedonia is your family from?
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • Nexus
                              Junior Member
                              • Oct 2012
                              • 73

                              For a foreign language you seem to write in it well enough
                              Thank you

                              What is your first language? Do you speak Macedonian? What region of Macedonia is your family from?
                              Français/Da zboram makedonski/My family is from Kratovo-Filipovtsi-Kavrac-Stip

                              Comment

                              • Soldier of Macedon
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 13670

                                Тогаш читај ги делата на Мисирков по македонски. Шо трошиш време со англиски превод?
                                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                                Comment

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