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  • Soldier of Macedon
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 13670

    Originally posted by amitreski
    However, it has come to our attention that they have asked the readers of their publication to call themselves Mace-Bulgarians or something to that effect.
    You have to be kidding me!!

    Didn't you guys have this point already clarified prior to having them involved?
    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

    Comment

    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15658

      You missed this one SoM?
      Frightening stuff in my opinion.
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • Vangelovski
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 8531

        Originally posted by amitreski View Post
        This is just another attempt to discredit UMD. UMD has in no way supported the UCK, and other gibberish said in this thread.
        In recent months, Albanians had an uproar over the Macedonian Encyclopaedia and disputed a number of articles that suggested Albanians arrived in Macedonia during the 16th century, that the US supported NLA forces and that Ali Ahmeti may be guilty of war crimes.

        UMD’s response to this was as follows:

        We understand the frustrations that ethnic Albanians feel regarding the mistakes contained within the Macedonian Encyclopedia. However, we remind everyone and Mr. Krasniqi that MANU is reviewing and has promised to correct these mistakes, with input from well-regarded Albanian-Macedonian academics,” said UMD Director of Public Policy, Boban Jovanovski”.

        UMD Media Release
        24 September 2009
        http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/432/1/
        If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

        The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

        Comment

        • Risto the Great
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 15658

          “We understand the frustrations that some ethnic Albanians feel regarding what they believe to be mistakes contained within the Macedonian Encyclopedia. We look forward to reviewing their alternate theories."
          Simple really.
          Risto the Great
          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

          Comment

          • aleksandrov
            Member
            • Feb 2010
            • 558

            Originally posted by amitreski View Post
            This is just another attempt to discredit UMD. UMD has in no way supported the UCK, and other gibberish said in this thread.

            Mitreski,

            Your incessant attempts to misconstrue the purpose and meaning of anything that appears like criticism of UMD policy, in order to evade accountability, is doing the UMD no service.

            The question in this pole is very clear and the thread-starting text is UMD's own public statement, published on the UMD website.

            Are you able to answer the question or not?

            DOES THE ABOVE PUBLIC STATEMENT BY THE UMD (call it gibberish if you like) AMOUNT TO SUPPORT FOR THE OHRID FRAMEWORK AGREEMENT?
            Last edited by aleksandrov; 02-09-2010, 05:34 AM.
            All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer

            https://www.facebook.com/igor.a.aleksandrov?ref=tn_tnmn

            Comment

            • Rogi
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 2343

              I just want to summarise, because it is becoming a little confusing. So what we have is...

              1. UMD does not support any name change whatsoever.

              2. The President and public figure of UMD has reaffirmed support for a name change to 'Democratic'.

              3. UMD's President defines a name change as a change in Macedonia's Constitution, not the name used in the United Nations*


              These statements are creating a lot of confusion, albeit not to those who are not so naive.


              * In the video of the Adelaide forum, Meto is recorded as saying that 'Democratic' may be acceptable for the EU, NATO and United Nations 'only' (definition of name change).


              I have been saying for nearly 2 years now that the way a name change will eventually be 'sold' to the Macedonian people is by 'selling' it as a replacement of 'fYROM' and not as a name change (because the Constitutional name won't change).

              This play on the definition of what a name change really means, is but a trick and a way to dupe the Macedonian people into remaining subservient and apathetic.

              Comment

              • aleksandrov
                Member
                • Feb 2010
                • 558

                Originally posted by Buktop View Post
                In terms of support for EU/NATO, and Military cooperation, ties with the USA do hold some benefits. I would not advocate an all out alliance or subservience to US foreign policy, but certain aspects are beneficial.

                That doesn't answer the question of why UMD feels the need to repeatedly preach to Macedonians that the US is their best friend, if (according to you) perceived American patronage doesn't mean anything to the bulk of the Macedonian people and cannot influence their decisions about crucial domestic affairs.
                All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer

                https://www.facebook.com/igor.a.aleksandrov?ref=tn_tnmn

                Comment

                • aleksandrov
                  Member
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 558

                  Originally posted by amitreski
                  The actual people responsible were greeted like heroes in Australia as far as I can remember.
                  What exactly can you 'remember'?
                  All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer

                  https://www.facebook.com/igor.a.aleksandrov?ref=tn_tnmn

                  Comment

                  • aleksandrov
                    Member
                    • Feb 2010
                    • 558

                    Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                    In recent months, Albanians had an uproar over the Macedonian Encyclopaedia and disputed a number of articles that suggested Albanians arrived in Macedonia during the 16th century, that the US supported NLA forces and that Ali Ahmeti may be guilty of war crimes.

                    UMD’s response to this was as follows:

                    We understand the frustrations that ethnic Albanians feel regarding the mistakes contained within the Macedonian Encyclopedia. However, we remind everyone and Mr. Krasniqi that MANU is reviewing and has promised to correct these mistakes, with input from well-regarded Albanian-Macedonian academics,” said UMD Director of Public Policy, Boban Jovanovski”.

                    UMD Media Release
                    24 September 2009
                    http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/432/1/
                    That looks like something that might have been drafted by US State Department bureaucrats.
                    Last edited by aleksandrov; 02-09-2010, 05:36 AM.
                    All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer

                    https://www.facebook.com/igor.a.aleksandrov?ref=tn_tnmn

                    Comment

                    • Bratot
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 2855

                      Ova e za sramota!

                      “We understand the frustrations that ethnic Albanians feel regarding the mistakes contained within the Macedonian Encyclopedia. However, we remind everyone and Mr. Krasniqi that MANU is reviewing and has promised to correct these mistakes, with input from well-regarded Albanian-Macedonian academics,” said UMD Director of Public Policy, Boban Jovanovski”.
                      The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                      Comment

                      • Bratot
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 2855

                        I'm fucking disqusted honestly, to read something like that from a "UMD Co-Founder, Board Member and Director of Policy Planning - Boban Jovanovski"


                        WTF is wrong with you man?

                        They UNDERSTAND the Albanian frustration - fuckin unbelievable!
                        Last edited by Bratot; 02-08-2010, 07:39 PM.
                        The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                        Comment

                        • Pelister
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 2742

                          Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                          I say this in general, and in principle, and I'm sure all agree:

                          Anyone is entitled to their own personal opinion.

                          However, you must consider in what capacity any statement is made. Is it as a representative of an organisation, is it in the name of the organisation, is it at an event of and/or for the organisation, is it to people questioning the organisation, or is it in a personal private conversation.

                          Secondly, the personal opinion of the head does reflect back on the organisation itself in that, it beckons the question why an organisation would keep at its' head someone so diametrically opposed to its' policy, if indeed there is such a disparity. So any organisation is automatically implicated by the personal or otherwise statements and views of its' head.
                          Rogi, Meto was speaking as the President of UMD. It was a UMD interview and press release.

                          The case you are trying to make here is the kind of sophistry and bullet dodging tactics TYPICAL of UMD.

                          This is the same garbage I heard from the President of UMD (Oh ! Or was it Meto Koloski speaking?), recently.

                          I was at a UMD recruitment drive in my local region last night. I asked some questions. I referred particularly to Meto's comments about a name change.

                          His response was that on a personal level he believes we have to change our name, but that that is not the position of UMD. UMD he said does not want a name change.

                          When the President of UMD was making these speeches for a name change back in March last year, was it Meto Koloski talking, or was it the President of UMD talking?

                          If you find references throughout the interview of "...We..." and "We..." and "....We..." he is clearly referring to the position of UMD and talking as President of UMD.

                          If on the other hand he uses the singular "I" a case may be made that he is expressing his own opinion, but even then it is highly suspect.

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13670

                            UMDiaspora, Amitreski, Buktop, etc........Bratot is not from Australia yet he still feels the way we do about the UMD. Clearly, the false assertion circulating a little while back that this is all an Australian conspiracy against the Macedonians in the US is just that, a false assertion.

                            Logical people know what is right and what isn't. I share Bratot's view on the matter, it is an absolute disgrace of an article, pathetically worded, and detrimental to our cause.
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • Pelister
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 2742

                              My Impressions of Meto and UMD

                              I attened a UMD meeting last night. It was highly staged and higly formalized.

                              My first impressions of Meto was that he is a conman.

                              He knows what people want to hear. He says the right things. He uses a softly spoken voice. It was velvety and sophisticated, and I left the meeting feeling quite good about the whole thing.

                              He spoke for an hour about the so called "achievements" of UMD. There were some big figures quoted, and he used some big words on the international scene.

                              I asked him some questions about a name change, and he said EXACTLY was Rogi has been saying on this forum. That in fact it was his personal opinion that we should change our name, not the opinion of UMD or in his capacity as President.

                              I was not the only one who could sense that this was a lie.

                              My impression was that UMD were CONNING well intentioned and good Macedonians with their sophistry.

                              As I said Meto prattled on about UMD's achievements the entire time deflecting attention away from the critical issue facing our country and Macedonians all over the world. He was good at deflecting attention by praying on our pride in Macedonia, and our patriotism.

                              But alot of it makes no sense.

                              For example:

                              In his speech he said Macedonia must enter under its constitutional name, yet he calls for a changed name.

                              In his speech he said that UMD want Macedonia to enter the E.U and NATO as an equal partner, and yet he defends our entry into NATO as FYROM.

                              Massive Contradictions in UMD position

                              The Ambassador in Perth said that the Macedonian government said to him that they will never change the name, and yet at best we have Meto Koloski accepting a name change (He said his personal point of view was for a name change), and at worst we have UMD calling for a name change (UMD President speaking).

                              Why would Meto or UMD be calling for a name change, or a modified name, if the Macedonian Ambassador in Perth told me face to face that the Macedonian government informed him 3 months ago that they will never change the name?

                              I am convinced that someone at UMD or in the Macedonian government is lying to us all.

                              My first impression was that Meto was snatching up any Macedonian he can get from on high.

                              UMD is splitting our community

                              Divide and conquer.

                              Finally, if only other Macedonians could have seen the arguements and eruptions following the conference. UMD has split our community already and it hasn't even started yet. I saw Macedonian community members who have been defending our rights for decades arguing with each other last night, because of the compromizes and the deception of UMD.

                              Some Macedonians liked what they were hearing, but didn't really know, nor did UMD make it clear where it stood on the critical issues facing Macedonia.

                              Comment

                              • Bratot
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 2855

                                I can and believe me I will use every possible source to reveal what kind of policy is held by the current UMD Board.

                                You (the other UMD members) have the option to dismiss those incapable persons or to force them to resign in a civil manner and the new UMD board to withdraw from their current anti-macedonian statements.

                                If something really pisses me off is this kind of pickavluk attitude!
                                The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                                Comment

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