United Macedonia Diaspora

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Buktop
    Member
    • Oct 2009
    • 934

    Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
    So we don't agree and we're now back to stage one.
    While I do agree in the theoretical sense, reading the constitution tells a different story, and as we all know the highest source of law, the mandate of the government is the constitution.

    Perhaps RoM should redefine itself in terms of what kind of government they actually have. As pointed out earlier, former communist party leaders were involved in it's drafting.
    "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

    Never once say you walk upon your final way
    though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
    Our long awaited hour will draw near
    and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

    Comment

    • Vangelovski
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 8531

      Originally posted by Rogi View Post
      Vangelovski, they may open it to public debate and referendum.

      However, according to the Constitution, specifically Article 131, they do not need to - the Assembly can make any and all amendments at will.

      Therein again lies the flaws of the Constitution which does not have any checks and bounds to prevent abuse of power.

      It does seem more and more that in Macedonia, if it is not specifically illegal, then it is legal and if it is not specifically Unconstitutional, then it is allowed by the Constitution.
      Rogi, I'm not going to repost everything I've written, maybe you could save me some time and read my posts on the constitution.
      If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

      The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

      Comment

      • Vangelovski
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 8531

        Originally posted by Buktop View Post
        While I do agree in the theoretical sense, reading the constitution tells a different story, and as we all know the highest source of law, the mandate of the government is the constitution.

        Perhaps RoM should redefine itself in terms of what kind of government they actually have. As pointed out earlier, former communist party leaders were involved in it's drafting.
        Buktop,

        You can't seperate the "theory" from the constitution (or "practice") - by doing so, you can just about justify anything. That's a ridiculous notion and I'm not even going to go there.
        If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

        The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

        Comment

        • Buktop
          Member
          • Oct 2009
          • 934

          Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
          Buktop,

          You can't seperate the "theory" from the constitution (or "practice") - by doing so, you can just about justify anything. That's a ridiculous notion and I'm not even going to go there.
          Well it appears it is happening in Macedonia...
          "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

          Never once say you walk upon your final way
          though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
          Our long awaited hour will draw near
          and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

          Comment

          • Phoenix
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2008
            • 4671

            Originally posted by Buktop View Post
            Phoenix, are you a citizen of the Republic of Macedonia? Were you eligible to participate in the 2004 referendum? We are discussing matters of Government that represent the citizens of the Republic. Those who do not hold citizenship do not have the actual authority to interfere in Government matters, but can try to influence outcomes.

            The Diaspora has it's functions as well, and I believe it should initiate a campaign to register Macedonians for citizenship, this way they can affect the course of the government. As a charitable organization though, organizations such as UMD, AMHRC etc... are not allowed to advocate one party or candidate over the other or they will lose their non-profit status.

            Phoenix, there are two ways for the Diaspora to actually influence government policy one is through a lobby group, and only then can you bribe politicians to push Diaspora agenda within the government policy, the other is to become a citizen.
            Buktop, what is the role of UMD in the above situation...?

            Comment

            • Bill77
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2009
              • 4545

              Originally posted by Buktop View Post
              Phoenix, are you a citizen of the Republic of Macedonia? Were you eligible to participate in the 2004 referendum? We are discussing matters of Government that represent the citizens of the Republic. Those who do not hold citizenship do not have the actual authority to interfere in Government matters, but can try to influence outcomes.
              Sory to but in on your discusion, You might be interested to know that in the days of the Break away from Yugoslavia, a referendum was held all around the world for All Macedonians, citizens or not, to vote on Independance. Or Would this be a diferant case?

              This also brings another argument. I voted for yes, An indapendent Macedonia, Not Indapendant Nth Macedonia, or Vardar Macedonia. etc. So therefor, the whole diaspora around the world should have a say if it comes to Referendum.
              http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

              Comment

              • Buktop
                Member
                • Oct 2009
                • 934

                Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
                Buktop, what is the role of UMD in the above situation...?
                UMD's role should be to try and make sure the government understands the positions of the diaspora, Strive and protect the rights of the diaspora, educate, and, I feel, they should encourage citizens in the diaspora to take a bigger role in policing the government.

                Originally posted by Bill77
                Sory to but in on your discusion, You might be interested to know that in the days of the Break away from Yugoslavia, a referendum was held all around the world for All Macedonians, citizens or not, to vote on Independance. Or Would this be a diferant case?

                This also brings another argument. I voted for yes, An indapendent Macedonia, Not Indapendant Nth Macedonia, or Vardar Macedonia. etc. So therefor, the whole diaspora around the world should have a say if it comes to Referendum.
                Did you receive the 2004 referendum?
                "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                Never once say you walk upon your final way
                though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                Our long awaited hour will draw near
                and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15658

                  Originally posted by Buktop View Post
                  UMD's role should be to try and make sure the government understands the positions of the diaspora, Strive and protect the rights of the diaspora, educate, and, I feel, they should encourage citizens in the diaspora to take a bigger role in policing the government.
                  I agree with you 100% Buktop. How do you genuinely feel the UMD is performing in relation to this matter?
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • Soldier of Macedon
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 13670

                    Buktop's explanation of UMD's role is correct. Unfortunately, this is not what UMD were/are doing with their support of 'democratic' prefixes. I am sure he can see this. And as I have said many a time, circumstances that affect the MK Government do not affect the UMD, they let down the Macedonian Diaspora by supporting such a notion, at a time when they should have been adamantly opposed to it, as per the sentiments and wishes of the Macedonian Diaspora.
                    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                    Comment

                    • Pelister
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 2742

                      Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                      Buktop's explanation of UMD's role is correct. Unfortunately, this is not what UMD were/are doing with their support of 'democratic' prefixes. I am sure he can see this. And as I have said many a time, circumstances that affect the MK Government do not affect the UMD, they let down the Macedonian Diaspora by supporting such a notion, at a time when they should have been adamantly opposed to it, as per the sentiments and wishes of the Macedonian Diaspora.
                      UMD do not care about the Macedonian diaspora.

                      UMD are supporting these Western structures which have backed fully the terms put to us by Greece - UMD have suggested various modified name changes, because Meto and Mitreski at UMD are careerists and opportunists.

                      As long as there is a dispute, and as long as the Macedonian government thinks its o.k to be negotiating our historical identity - you can be UMD will continue to stand for the same.

                      When Meto Koloski said "Macedonia has to modify its name" he had one thing in mind - E.U membership.

                      These pea-brains have sold us out, and will continue to so. The New "catchword" of UMD is "Integration". They want Macedonia "integrated" into the West. If that organization is not a tool for Western foriegn policy for Macedonia - I don't know what is.

                      Comment

                      • Buktop
                        Member
                        • Oct 2009
                        • 934

                        Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                        I agree with you 100% Buktop. How do you genuinely feel the UMD is performing in relation to this matter?
                        Of course UMD could always perform better, but to tell you the truth, I think they are doing alright. I would like to see some more initiatives concerning the actions of the citizens in the diaspora, but this is a touchy subject as 501(c)(3) non-profit organizations are subject to restrictions concerning elections and lobbying.

                        Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon
                        Buktop's explanation of UMD's role is correct. Unfortunately, this is not what UMD were/are doing with their support of 'democratic' prefixes. I am sure he can see this. And as I have said many a time, circumstances that affect the MK Government do not affect the UMD, they let down the Macedonian Diaspora by supporting such a notion, at a time when they should have been adamantly opposed to it, as per the sentiments and wishes of the Macedonian Diaspora.
                        We have discussed said position to exhaustion, and not that I disagree with you, but I would like to hear what Meto has to say about it. I would prefer this discussion come up in his visit to Australia or in a personal correspondence via e-mail rather than on the forum. (that is my preference, it does not necessarily mean that you have to agree)
                        "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                        Never once say you walk upon your final way
                        though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                        Our long awaited hour will draw near
                        and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                        Comment

                        • Buktop
                          Member
                          • Oct 2009
                          • 934

                          Originally posted by Pelister View Post
                          UMD do not care about the Macedonian diaspora.

                          UMD are supporting these Western structures which have backed fully the terms put to us by Greece - UMD have suggested various modified name changes, because Meto and Mitreski at UMD are careerists and opportunists.

                          As long as there is a dispute, and as long as the Macedonian government thinks its o.k to be negotiating our historical identity - you can be UMD will continue to stand for the same.

                          When Meto Koloski said "Macedonia has to modify its name" he had one thing in mind - E.U membership.

                          These pea-brains have sold us out, and will continue to so. The New "catchword" of UMD is "Integration". They want Macedonia "integrated" into the West. If that organization is not a tool for Western foriegn policy for Macedonia - I don't know what is.
                          "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                          Never once say you walk upon your final way
                          though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                          Our long awaited hour will draw near
                          and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                          Comment

                          • osiris
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 1969

                            but to tell you the truth, I think they are doing alright.
                            buktop what is it they have done.

                            Comment

                            • Soldier of Macedon
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 13670

                              Meto has already given his 'response' to this on the forum, this happened on one of the earlier threads where I brought up the ZMR interview. Use the search function at the top of your screen, you shouldn't have too much trouble locating his response.

                              If I recall correctly, he basically gave the poor excuse that because the MK Government were apparently preparing to accept a compromise, he just jumped along for the ride. I pointed out to him that the UMD was supposed to be there to represent us, and not 'act' as a puppy for the MK Government. I can't remember if he even responded to that, I will look it up tonight. That said, I found his response weak, and this is over a forum, in person Meto would have been torn to shreds, is that what he is anticipating when he comes to Australia? Does he think he has an edge by responding in person? Meto's trip here won't be the success he thinks, and given his reluctance to address matters here, the intensity in public and in person will be higher.

                              Whoever he has as his advisors, he should replace them immediately, but then again, he probably doesn't for his own reasons.
                              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                              Comment

                              • Buktop
                                Member
                                • Oct 2009
                                • 934

                                Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                                Meto has already given his 'response' to this on the forum, this happened on one of the earlier threads where I brought up the ZMR interview. Use the search function at the top of your screen, you shouldn't have too much trouble locating his response.

                                If I recall correctly, he basically gave the poor excuse that because the MK Government were apparently preparing to accept a compromise, he just jumped along for the ride. I pointed out to him that the UMD was supposed to be there to represent us, and not 'act' as a puppy for the MK Government. I can't remember if he even responded to that, I will look it up tonight. That said, I found his response weak, and this is over a forum, in person Meto would have been torn to shreds, is that what he is anticipating when he comes to Australia? Does he think he has an edge by responding in person? Meto's trip here won't be the success he thinks, and given his reluctance to address matters here, the intensity in public and in person will be higher.

                                Whoever he has as his advisors, he should replace them immediately, but then again, he probably doesn't for his own reasons.
                                Do you remember the name of the thread?
                                "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                                Never once say you walk upon your final way
                                though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                                Our long awaited hour will draw near
                                and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X