Common Macedonian Soldier Proud NOT To Be Greek

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  • fyrOM
    Banned
    • Feb 2010
    • 2180

    #16
    Originally posted by Voltron View Post
    I believe it was a dialect Ozi. The Macedonians back then were regarded somewhat of a village hillybilly. There is nothing to suggest, even today of a seperate language.
    You would think they would have something, anything to show for it. Rome did and they were just as versed in Greek. In Macedonia's case we have nothing. Isnt odd, to promote a language and culture you are not proud of ? Doesnt add up.
    Yeah but aren’t dialect like flavors of icecream…in the end its still icecream…and although there would be difficulties to understand each other fluently surely not to be a different language then it must have had words in common and usually in dialects these words are usually basic words like go or back stop ect yet I recall a story of a Greek office having difficulty communicating with his Macedonian soldiers in the to and fro of battle such that it resulted in disarray and both his and their demise. One would think a dialect would not be so different that basic words could not be understood and in the throw of battle no one is going to be a stubborn prick and pretend not to understand.

    Hey Voltron how ya mnall. See how I reckon it some might never had book learnin much in them there hills an speak as prdy as yall but what papi said he dun heard his papi said and such weez know a thing or two about sayin stuff.

    I guess it depends on which side of the mason dixie line you hail from but them gd ol boys new how to communicate in the great war.

    YouTube - Old Arkansas Hillbilly Man Talking about O.J. Simpson
    Last edited by fyrOM; 02-15-2011, 10:21 AM.

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    • Voltron
      Banned
      • Jan 2011
      • 1362

      #17
      There are conflicting stories regarding that incident and not just limited to that one either. I still firmly believe that it was a dialect. They had every chance to promote their own language, why didnt they ? For commercial purposes ? Thats ridiculous. Are we going to speak Chinese within the next decade ? Should I start calligraphy lessons ?

      Comment

      • George S.
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2009
        • 10116

        #18
        Voltron you are avoiding the question that your country greece is a big liar why because they are saying ALL macedonians spoke greek they didn;'speak another language it was only greek there was no macedonian language.I just told you the ordinary Macedonian only spoke macedonian it was only the royal house that spoke greek,it was for commercial reasons but they spoke their mother tounge which was macedonian.Leaves a BIG hole in your greek govt propaganda that everybody spoke GREEK that is a BIG LIE!!!!
        Challenge for voltron you have to admit it that you are wrong all this time.Stop bullshitting as if you are ignorant!
        Last edited by George S.; 02-15-2011, 10:27 AM. Reason: ed
        "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
        GOTSE DELCEV

        Comment

        • fyrOM
          Banned
          • Feb 2010
          • 2180

          #19
          Originally posted by Voltron View Post
          There are conflicting stories regarding that incident and not just limited to that one either. I still firmly believe that it was a dialect. They had every chance to promote their own language, why didnt they ? For commercial purposes ? Thats ridiculous. Are we going to speak Chinese within the next decade ? Should I start calligraphy lessons ?
          Don’t laugh…elementary school kids in Australia are learning Asian languages…mandatory exposure tryouts before it goes national…and Chinese is the most popular.
          Last edited by fyrOM; 02-15-2011, 10:27 AM.

          Comment

          • George S.
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2009
            • 10116

            #20
            ozimak perhaps we can introduce painting by numbers to our friend voltron to count the number of fibs or lies he has told & check how much it corresponds to the greek govt's propaganda machine.Perhaps you could win a flight to greece flying olympic airways.Just kidding.
            Last edited by George S.; 02-15-2011, 10:45 AM. Reason: ed
            "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
            GOTSE DELCEV

            Comment

            • fyrOM
              Banned
              • Feb 2010
              • 2180

              #21
              Facts and logical communication often draws out the truth besides I was never allowed to paint in case I got it on the carpet so I’m not really into painting.

              Comment

              • fyrOM
                Banned
                • Feb 2010
                • 2180

                #22
                Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                They had every chance to promote their own language, why didnt they ?
                To find meaning in events we need to put them in context to what else was going on around them and then see if it makes sense.

                You would no doubt be aware of the speed in which Alexander moved his army over the middle east and Asia but also remember he wasn’t going on a tourist trek but fighting wars every inch of the way so

                1. we have lack of time to stop a smell the roses

                2. Greek was the most common language used at that time so why bother with teaching millions of newly conquered people all of different nationalities with different native tongs a new language when the already know Greek.

                3. To teach a language requires setting up schools which is not only an expense…too good for you mongrels ie the conquered people

                4. Sometimes languages are not learned by schools ie the poor but through use and application and Greek was already in common use. To spread any new language by word of mouth would first need a purpose…if the whole world knew English why would I bother learning any other language…and proximity…if no one around me speaks this other language where am I going to hear it to learn it.

                From every respect in the climate of the time using Greek made more sense than any other language.

                Think about if the whole world spoke English fluently for a couple of centuries and also each knew their native tong and somehow china did some world war and now are rulers of the world do you think Chinese would be used any time soon.

                And lets not forget
                5. The home advantage…if everybody knows Greek we can tell each other secrets or make battle calls without the enemy knowing your move before you have done it.

                So if one is practical economical and logical it made no sense to introduce any new language.

                Comment

                • Agamoi Thytai
                  Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 198

                  #23
                  Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View Post



                  Have not finished reading this book, just got it recently. Will post more from it in due time.
                  Philip Freeman is a classic scholar who apparently lacks even basic linguistic knowledge which one who writes books on the ancient Macedonian language should have.Otherwise he is just lying.Let me explain:He claims ancient Macedonians couldn't pronounce properly the "Greek sounds" because they said "ΒΙΛΙΠΠΟΣ","ΞΑΝΔΟΣ" and "ΓΑΙΤΕΑΣ" instead of "proper Greek" ΦΙΛΙΠΠΟΣ,ΞΑΝΘΟΣ and ΧΑΙΤΕΑΣ,i.e the known Macedonian habbit to turn in some words voiceless aspirate consonants of standard Greek Φ,Θ and Χ to voiced stops Β,Δ and Γ.Had Mr. Freeman bothered himself with studying the Macedonian words that are recorded by ancient lexicographers like Hesychius,Amerias e.t.c,he would have known that these consonants were not unknown to Macedonian phonology and they could indeed pronounce them.Few examples that expose Mr. Freemans ignorance,i.e. Macedonian words containing the consonants Φ,Θ and Χ,which Macedonians "could not pronounce because they were Greek" according to Mr. Freeman:

                  1)The Macedonian word ἀρφύς (synonymous with Attic ἱμάς,i.e. "cestus")

                  2)The Macedonian word Ἠμαθίη,the first name of Macedonia.

                  3)The Macedonian word θούριδες,synonymous with Attic νύμφαι and Μοῦσαι,i.e. "brides","Muse".

                  4)The Macedonian word χάρων,synonymous with Attic λέων,i.e. "lion"

                  And because i know you will question the reliability of a wikipedia article,here is this word in Hesychius lexicon (right column,15th word) :
                  "What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks?"
                  Polybius, Histories, 9.35

                  Comment

                  • Agamoi Thytai
                    Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 198

                    #24
                    Originally posted by George S. View Post
                    vultron for yout information in the book the ptofessor wrote that the ordinary macedonian never spoke greek only macedonian.The only people that spoke greek was the royal house.But the royal house spoke their mother tounge as well which was macedonian.So they spoke greek because of commercial reasons.SO your greek government's claim that all macedonians spoke greek is Totally FALSE.
                    If this professor really wrote that,then he nead to read the following passage of Arrian's Indica:

                    "Some of them advanced some distance inland, breaking away from the main force, some in pursuit of this, and some of that. There a man appeared to them, wearing a Greek cloak, and dressed otherwise in the Greek fashion, and speaking Greek also. Those who first sighted him said that they burst into tears, so strange did it seem after all these miseries to see a Greek, and to hear Greek spoken. They asked whence he came, who he was; and he said that he had become separated from Alexander's camp, and that the camp, and Alexander himself, were not very far distant. Shouting aloud and clapping their hands they brought this man to Nearchus; and he told Nearchus everything, and that the camp and the King himself were distant five days' journey from the coast".
                    "What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks?"
                    Polybius, Histories, 9.35

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13670

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Voltron
                      My approach is to look at the facts on the ground, and use common sense.
                      Lol, thanks, I needed a good laugh in the morning.
                      The Macedonians back then were regarded somewhat of a village hillybilly.
                      Unsubstantiated garbage. No writer from antiquity ever wrote that.

                      There is nothing to suggest, even today of a seperate language.
                      There is plenty, try using that common sense you claim to posses.
                      They had every chance to promote their own language, why didnt they ? For commercial purposes ?
                      Why didn't the Thracians or Illyrians? Why did they use Greek instead? Why didn't the Mongols use their own language but instead used Persian in India? Why do the Irish and Scottish still use English when they have their own Celtic tongues that are still alive today? I will tell you why, because it made practical sense to use languages with an already established literature at the time, and could reach larger commercial and religious audiences as a lingua franca. Use that common sense you claim to have.
                      Originally posted by Agamoi Thytai
                      Had Mr. Freeman bothered himself with studying the Macedonian words that are recorded by ancient lexicographers like Hesychius,Amerias e.t.c,he would have known that these consonants were not unknown to Macedonian phonology and they could indeed pronounce them.
                      I wouldn't say that sort of phonology was unknown to Macedonians, it just wasn't common for them, meaning most of those words are foreign loans. The fact that these linguistic particulars exist in Macedonian which differentiates it from Greek really bothers you, doesn't it? I've seen you do all sorts of dances trying to downplay their significance, and to no avail.
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • Agamoi Thytai
                        Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 198

                        #26
                        Originally posted by OziMak View Post
                        To find meaning in events we need to put them in context to what else was going on around them and then see if it makes sense.

                        You would no doubt be aware of the speed in which Alexander moved his army over the middle east and Asia but also remember he wasn’t going on a tourist trek but fighting wars every inch of the way so

                        1. we have lack of time to stop a smell the roses

                        2. Greek was the most common language used at that time so why bother with teaching millions of newly conquered people all of different nationalities with different native tongs a new language when the already know Greek.

                        3. To teach a language requires setting up schools which is not only an expense…too good for you mongrels ie the conquered people

                        4. Sometimes languages are not learned by schools ie the poor but through use and application and Greek was already in common use. To spread any new language by word of mouth would first need a purpose…if the whole world knew English why would I bother learning any other language…and proximity…if no one around me speaks this other language where am I going to hear it to learn it.

                        From every respect in the climate of the time using Greek made more sense than any other language.
                        Greek was definitely not the lingua france in the Middle East and especially in the territory of the Persian empire before Alexander.Instead Aramaic was the lingua franca in that area.Greek became the lingua franca only after Alexander conquered those areas.

                        "In the following centuries,as the cuneiform-writing Assyrians extended their empire westwards,they adopted the whole package of Aramaic language and script to ease official communication between the new provinces of the Assyrian Empire.It soon became the one common language of the Middle East, and its use became even more widespread during the Persian period.As Aramaic gained wider currency as the language and script of government, it was increasingly written by people for whom it was not their first language, many of whom doubtless had prodigious volumes of official writing to produce….
                        Although this Imperial Aramaic script developed some regional variations,for as long as the Persian Empire was the unifying power it retained a broad similarity throughout the
                        Persian-ruled territories.But a century or two after the Persian collapse in the fourth century BC at the hands of Alexander the Great,local differences began to proliferate. In the new Hellenistic kingdoms of the Seleucids and Ptolemies,Greek was now the official language of government:but the existing peoples or tribes within these territories were by now too habituated to Aramaic to change to a new and unknown language".
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                        And this:
                        "What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks?"
                        Polybius, Histories, 9.35

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                        • Soldier of Macedon
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 13670

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Agamoi Thytai
                          Greek was definitely not the lingua france in the Middle East and especially in the territory of the Persian empire before Alexander.Instead Aramaic was the lingua franca in that area.Greek became the lingua franca only after Alexander conquered those areas.
                          Can you name all of the Hellenic colonies in and around Asia prior to the 4th century BC?
                          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13670

                            #28
                            Seeing as you've conveniently disappeared again, let me do it for you, using your very own favourite wikipedia to ease your mind, lol:


                            During the Archaic period, the population of Greece grew beyond the capacity of its limited arable land (according to one estimate, the population of ancient Greece increased by a factor larger than ten during the period from 800 BC to 400 BC, increasing from a population of 800,000 to a total estimated population of 10 to 13 million).[15]

                            From about 750 BC the Greeks began 250 years of expansion, settling colonies in all directions. To the east, the Aegean coast of Asia Minor was colonized first, followed by Cyprus and the coasts of Thrace, the Sea of Marmara and south coast of the Black Sea.

                            Eventually Greek colonization reached as far northeast as present day Ukraine and Russia (Taganrog). To the west the coasts of Illyria, Sicily and Southern Italy were settled, followed by Southern France, Corsica, and even northeastern Spain. Greek colonies were also founded in Egypt and Libya.

                            Modern Syracuse, Naples, Marseille and Istanbul had their beginnings as the Greek colonies Syracusae (Συρακούσαι), Neapolis (Νεάπολις), Massalia (Μασσαλία) and Byzantion (Βυζάντιον). These colonies played an important role in the spread of Greek influence throughout Europe, and also aided in the establishment of long-distance trading networks between the Greek city-states, boosting the economy of ancient Greece.


                            As can be clearly seen, there were a number of Hellenic colonies already in existence, so trade, commerce, cultural and religious interaction in the Greek language was not unfamiliar in Asia. The Macedonian campaign merely gave pencil-pushers an avenue to disseminate the Greek language. It was a by-product, and not a specific intention.

                            And it all begins from the south of Greece, which means that, a Greek origin for Macedonians, or Macedonians being the 'pure' and 'primitive' Greeks that ran out of petrol and finally decided to enter the world of their apparent 'brethren' centuries later - is a load of garbage.
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • George S.
                              Senior Member
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 10116

                              #29
                              Agamoi that soldier you mentioned falling behind & getting lost & being found that he spoke greek well yes he was greek why because all the greeks alexander had he put them behind
                              of his entourage remember alexanders army was a macedonian one.Also the peole who found this person were surprised that he spoke greek,why because macedonians in alexanders army spoke macedonian only.So you keep your charade of saying that because someone speaks greek they must be greek.You know agamoi if you beleive it long enough pigs can fly.Ako mislish za dolgo vreme prasinata ke pustat krilca i ke letat.
                              Last edited by George S.; 02-15-2011, 08:04 PM. Reason: ed
                              "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                              GOTSE DELCEV

                              Comment

                              • makedonche
                                Senior Member
                                • Oct 2008
                                • 3242

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Agamoi Thytai View Post
                                If this professor really wrote that,then he nead to read the following passage of Arrian's Indica:

                                "Some of them advanced some distance inland, breaking away from the main force, some in pursuit of this, and some of that. There a man appeared to them, wearing a Greek cloak, and dressed otherwise in the Greek fashion, and speaking Greek also. Those who first sighted him said that they burst into tears, so strange did it seem after all these miseries to see a Greek, and to hear Greek spoken. They asked whence he came, who he was; and he said that he had become separated from Alexander's camp, and that the camp, and Alexander himself, were not very far distant. Shouting aloud and clapping their hands they brought this man to Nearchus; and he told Nearchus everything, and that the camp and the King himself were distant five days' journey from the coast".
                                http://books.google.com/books?id=XTzTaSZBY-AC&pg=PA25
                                Agamoi
                                Who wrote this book?
                                On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

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