United Macedonia Diaspora

[Buktop]

All I am saying is, if you wish to "help" UMD through constructive criticism, attend their meetings and voice your opinions there, don't just complain on an internet forum. I myself am not a member of UMD, but I respect the work they do and the ongoing projects they undertake to help Macedonia and Macedonians alike. Meto will be in Australia all next month so feel free to ask him questions, attend the meetings and clear up the issues, as of right now, all of this is simply speculation based on personal opinion and loose interpretations of UMD board member interviews.

You can't expect UMD board members to be frequently active on an internet forum regularly, they have other priorities to attend to. That's why I say make an effort to attend one of their meetings, it will take 1-2 hours of your time and it will clear up most if not all of your issues rather than wasting time speculating.

I said I worked with Meto once, never said I was his best friend.

As for the generalizations against Australians, as I stated previously in my post, not all Australians have problems with UMD, but most of the people who have problems with UMD are from Australia. Is this not a fair assessment? How many of the people who are posting in this thread are from Australia? Once again, I'm not generalizing, I'm pointing out an observation. This could be due to the difference in cultures from USA/Canada to Australia, who knows, just pointing out an observation. I have family in Australia and I have nothing against Aussies.

[Prolet]

SOM, Have you noticed the arguments coming from their side? Its like we are pushing for the destruction of UMD, they look at it as a press conference you ask a question they give an answer that some people are not clearly satisfied with and if you complain about it then you are an enemy, this is how they are and how they function where as we tend to question everything and think differently.

SOM, The last thing we need is for this to become a big mess, maka ke machime posle.

[Soldier of Macedon]

All I am saying is, if you wish to "help" UMD through constructive criticism, attend their meetings and voice your opinions there, don't just complain on an internet forum........You can't expect UMD board members to be frequently active on an internet forum regularly, they have other priorities to attend to.

Buktop, can you tell me what the difference would be were they to answer the questions to me in person at one of their meetings as opposed to this forum, on which they have representation? We don't expect UMD board members to be frequently active here, but if they frequent the place and spend some time for the purpose of promoting their material (which they do), they can spend some time addressing our concerns.

Limiting public concerns on their terms and restricting all inquiries to their info.com links and meetings is not transparent enough for an organisation that claims to represent the Macedonian Diaspora.

[Soldier of Macedon]

SOM, Have you noticed the arguments coming from their side? Its like we are pushing for the destruction of UMD, they look at it as a press conference you ask a question they give an answer that some people are not clearly satisfied with and if you complain about it then you are an enemy, this is how they are and how they function where as we tend to question everything and think differently.

SOM, The last thing we need is for this to become a big mess, maka ke machime posle.

Prolet, unlike yourself, I do not have a doom n' gloom attitude towards this issue, and I don't wish to generalise about how 'they' view us and how 'we' view them, generalisations are quite often assumptions, and you know what they say when you assume....

We are all here to serve the Macedonian cause, methodology is where we differ and is what the diaspora needs to unify on. There is no better platform for both sides to get their message across and come to an understanding, than a public forum like the MTO where all concerned Macedonians can follow the discussions and subsequent developments, and have their voices heard.

[Phoenix]

Why is UMD so paranoid about public scrutiny...how does the criticism by a handful of concerned Australian Macedonians turn into an 'agenda' against UMD...?

Anybody?

[Risto the Great]

Why is UMD so paranoid about public scrutiny...how does the criticism by a handful of concerned Australian Macedonians turn into an 'agenda' against UMD...?

Anybody?

I honestly see it as a golden opportunity to promote themselves. By not engaging in dialogue, it is either bad marketing or something less pleasant. And I think they are excellent marketers.

[Buktop]

Buktop, can you tell me what the difference would be were they to answer the questions to me in person at one of their meetings as opposed to this forum, on which they have representation? We don't expect UMD board members to be frequently active here, but if they frequent the place and spend some time for the purpose of promoting their material (which they do), they can spend some time addressing our concerns.

I don't like the fact that the UMD, as represented on this forum and Maknews, is allowing itself to become embroiled in debating certain issues that could easily be resolved with a personal correspondence. There is an expected code of conduct for discourse concerning NGO's and witless banter and informal Q&A sessions on internet forums are not the way to deal with these types of issues as it is disorganized and much of the information is lost in the heat of the debate.

Limiting public concerns on their terms and restricting all inquiries to their info.com links and meetings is not transparent enough for an organisation that claims to represent the Macedonian Diaspora.

I understand what you are saying, the main difference between a response on the forum and a personal response would be the lack of room for misinterpretation. I'm sure you understand that written messages can sometimes be misinterpreted and an online response lacks certain emphasis on key phrases and intended effects of speech. A personal response could answer some of the key concerns that many possess by erasing the potential error in interpretation. For instance, sarcasm is difficult to detect in written responses.

Also there seems to be a misconception when distinguishing between personal position and the declaration of current existing factors pertaining to the Macedonian position, and it seems that these factors are not completely agreed upon by diaspora.

To reference one of Rogi's posts from Maknews pertaining to the quote of Meto claiming that a name change is necessary to enter the EU and NATO, according to Rogi's interpretation Meto stated a fact that the position of the EU and NATO is in support of a name change being a condition to entry of Macedonia, and that Meto's acknowledgment of this position is merely that, an acknowledgment and not a personal opinion.

But to be honest, any statement that comes in print is open to personal interpretation, whereas a personal formal meeting leaves little room to interpretation and will allow for solid concise positions that leave little to the imagination.

It just seems that a great deal of time and effort is spent on interpretations of meanings of written statements and that perhaps a personal face to face meeting Q & A might clarify those misconceptions that seem to persist when dealing with UMD. This is why I urge those who have issues with the UMD to attend their workshop meetings, or take advantage of Meto's tour of Australia next month to clarify any issues that exist.

[Buktop]

Why is UMD so paranoid about public scrutiny...how does the criticism by a handful of concerned Australian Macedonians turn into an 'agenda' against UMD...?

Anybody?

It's not about public scrutiny, UMD lacks an internet division capable of answering questions and concerns on a regular basis, it might be more beneficial to them to create their own forum for Q&A on their website where people can pose questions and concerns at will. It is very difficult for a volunteer organization to maintain appearances on multiple Macedonian forums where things might end up schizophrenic to say the least.

[Buktop]

In fact, I advocate the creation of a UMD forum, within the bounds of their own website, that allows for discussion and debate, Q&A on specific topics and issues so as to reduce the misconception, and to better convey the concerns of the Diaspora to the organization.

[Prolet]

Buktop, can you tell me what the difference would be were they to answer the questions to me in person at one of their meetings as opposed to this forum, on which they have representation? We don't expect UMD board members to be frequently active here, but if they frequent the place and spend some time for the purpose of promoting their material (which they do), they can spend some time addressing our concerns.

SOM, When Pelister stated that he had some concerns about the UMD regarding their stance on the name issue i clearly outlined to Maknews that he should allow him to have his say so that the issue can be resolved once and for all and i was attacked by people and was accused for stirring the pot they even accused me of deliberately trying to make a dispute with the UMD which is not that case as you can see. Look at whats happened now as its like a wild fire spreading and if we dont stop it its going to burn the lot of us.

I agree with you about the questions asked that this is why we have forums so we can all communicate together, you made it perfectly clear that you have no intentions to meet up with Metodija when he will come to Australia in February next year which means that its much easier for these questions to be raised right here on this forum.

Why is UMD so paranoid about public scrutiny...how does the criticism by a handful of concerned Australian Macedonians turn into an 'agenda' against UMD...?

Phoenix, Im a little surprised myself however this should have been solved a long time ago be it via a private chat or whatever, now its starting to get out of hand and some nasty insults have taken place. Lets make something clear, you never debated with the UMD regarding their stance on the name issue it was to do with the soft responses they gave out (The so called Diplomatic Responses) in which angered some users myself included and Maknews just got pissed off from there on we both got accused of trying to blacken the UMD simply because their official press releases had no venom in them all, they had was a bit of disappointment (Like if they loose an Ice Hockey game) on a very sensitive issue such as it is with our name and identity.

We are all here to serve the Macedonian cause, methodology is where we differ and is what the diaspora needs to unify on.

Thats exactly right SOM, however some responsibility needs to be taken here aswell as people skills. Its pretty stupid to call somebody a Grkoman when the person is doing their very best not to change our name, a Grkoman would be the first to suggest or force us to agree to change our name at all costs in order to get into Nato and EU and we bumped in a few of those in the past havnt we??

[Buktop]

SOM, When Pelister stated that he had some concerns about the UMD regarding their stance on the name issue i clearly outlined to Maknews that he should allow him to have his say so that the issue can be resolved once and for all and i was attacked by people and was accused for stirring the pot they even accused me of deliberately trying to make a dispute with the UMD which is not that case as you can see. Look at whats happened now as its like a wild fire spreading and if we dont stop it its going to burn the lot of us.

I agree with you about the questions asked that this is why we have forums so we can all communicate together, you made it perfectly clear that you have no intentions to meet up with Metodija when he will come to Australia in February next year which means that its much easier for these questions to be raised right here on this forum.




Phoenix, Im a little surprised myself however this should have been solved a long time ago be it via a private chat or whatever, now its starting to get out of hand and some nasty insults have taken place. Lets make something clear, you never debated with the UMD regarding their stance on the name issue it was to do with the soft responses they gave out (The so called Diplomatic Responses) in which angered some users myself included and Maknews just got pissed off from there on we both got accused of trying to blacken the UMD simply because their official press releases had no venom in them all, they had was a bit of disappointment (Like if they loose an Ice Hockey game) on a very sensitive issue such as it is with our name and identity.



Thats exactly right SOM, however some responsibility needs to be taken here aswell as people skills. Its pretty stupid to call somebody a Grkoman when the person is doing their very best not to change our name, a Grkoman would be the first to suggest or force us to agree to change our name at all costs in order to get into Nato and EU and we bumped in a few of those in the past havnt we??

Prolet, I am very surprised to see this side of you. I suggest that while Meto is in Australia you take the opportunity to meet with him, otherwise I advise that you stray away from this topic.

Are you planing on meeting with Meto when he comes to Australia?

Are you planing on taking Paul/Pelister's statements at face value or are you planing on actually posing the questions to those who can answer them? You should take any and all statements on any internet forum with a grain of salt. But when you have the chance to answer your questions, specifically with the arrival of Meto in Australia, you should take it. Don't just pass it by, take the opportunity to answer your questions.

Anyone in this thread who has asked questions of UMD and will not seek to attend even a single event where Meto will be present in Australia does not even deserve the right to discourse.

[Soldier of Macedon]

......you made it perfectly clear that you have no intentions to meet up with Metodija when he will come to Australia in February next year.......

Where did I make it perfectly clear Prolet? Stop exaggerating and making assumptions on behalf of other people.

[Dimko-piperkata]

YouTube - Meto from UMD

[UMDiaspora.org]

Meto, here are a couple of questions.

Do the UMD support the name negotiations or speak out against the concept of negotiating about the Macedonian identity?

Do the UMD support the Ohrid Agreement or speak out against this 'treaty' that forces Macedonians to accept ethnic Albanian criminal enclaves where the police are not permitted to enter, and ethnic Albanian language and terrorists in the Macedonian parliament?

Or is this something applauded by the UMD?

Please don't make the mistake of referring me to some info.link again. If you are unable to answer, or don't wish to, then simply ignore the questions, that would be a telling answer in itself in any case.

The United Macedonian Diaspora firmly rejects any efforts by persons or entities to rename the Republic of Macedonia. It is our view that the name of a nation state is an inextricable element of its sovereignty. This has been our position since day one and has been consistent throughout all our statements as UMD.

UMD's President Metodija A. Koloski has been pretty vocal on the Framework Agreement, see his op-ed in 2004: http://www.macedonianalliance.com/Ar...0Macedonia.htm Quote "The Ohrid Framework Agreement is an embarrassment upon us as an emerging democratic nation-state and on our territorial integrity." Now, we'll let you all be the judge of UMD's positions.

[UMDiaspora.org]

Response

Easy, the big end of town is all about pats on the back, smiles and lots of handshakes.

This forum attracts a huge readership. It is a worthy instrument for delivering messages to the Macedonian Diaspora and a useful marketing tool for them. It is not unreasonable to reciprocate with public dialogue.

UMD has great respect for the MacedonianTruth.org website and that is why UMD choose to post its announcements on this forum.