United Macedonia Diaspora

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  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15658

    Originally posted by Buktop View Post
    Are you a paying member of UMD? If not why do you expect them to respond to your questions? Do you contribute to UMD? Are a serious potential contributor? Answer honestly.
    I believe I am a "family" member. But am thinking carefully about renewing my membership. I encouraged many members from Australia to join a while back. So much so that I was thanked personally for the immediacy of new memberships at one point.

    Originally posted by Buktop View Post
    Show me where Meto accepted a changed name? And what leads you to believe that it is a one man show?
    Have you not seen the Youtube link? Check out some of the links from Vangelovski and Pelister. I hope you are not just dismissing their posts because you feel they are raving lunatic patriotic Macedonians who reside in Australia.

    Originally posted by Buktop View Post
    Meto is an employee of UMD he is not the sole leader of it, he volunteered to be a full time employee, sacrificing all of his time and effort to serve the Macedonian diaspora.
    Now I am a little annoyed with you. In your previous response to SoM you made it clear the UMD does not represent all of us, only their members. It is a common (and convenient reply). You do realise that you are now adding to this confusion don't you? Would you accept that it is a convenient bit of confusion that this generates.

    Lord knows I would do it, but I would also represent the Macedonian Diaspora whilst doing it.

    Is the Macedonian Diaspora that different in the USA vs Australia? Have a look at the Macedonian Cause and let me know if anything offends you. We are yet to hear whether anything in it offends the UMD.

    This thread is solely devoted to our combined efforts in defining the Macedonian Cause. Please post your feedback, additions and changes in this thread. The moderators will edit this first post to include your changes until we have all agreed on a complete, perfect, unwavering and timeless definition of the Macedonian Cause. --


    How do you guys say it? .... Happy Festivus.
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

    Comment

    • Prolet
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2009
      • 5241

      Buktop, Are you the UMD Portparol??

      You have to understand that we are in a critical situation and we must remain united, but you are openly stating that anybody who has questions and concerns is a liar or a Grkoman and it will only put further uncertainty on the UMD and it will cast doubt on future members.

      The way you portray the UMD Buktop is like some private organization which only cares about its members and its represents them in the Macedonian Diaspora. This is where the danger comes in because when any group decides to privatize the name Macedonian Diaspora it is a problem around the world because the last thing we need is dozens of diaspora groups getting members and talking pro Macedonian to satisfy the others.

      We have the Macedonian Alliance in Australia and i thought they did a wonderful job for a while, they are still active but very much in the shadows.

      We are a small country and our diaspora is not that big, we cant have dozens of organizations representing our diaspora. We had this problem in 2001 when the conflict occurred where people just kept opening up bank accounts there was around 17 accounts for people to donate money and it was a complete waste. Its amazing how people can do as they please simply because there is no discipline and no unity, this is why we are not getting anywhere.

      Buktop, Metodija said in a recent interview that the UMD has 4000 members World Wide and that he has heard reports it could be up to 50,000 how does that work?? Here is the quote

      КОЛОСКИ: Нашата организација има околу 4000 членови низ светот. Нашата база на податоци има информации за околу 50 000 членови низ светот, така да на тој начин опфаќаме голем број на Македонци низ светот. Ние имаме канцеларија во Вашингтон. Тоа е наша прва канцеларија, многу значајна бидејќи тоа е прва канцеларија на некоја македонска организација во главниот град на САД. Присутни сме во Торонто и Мелбурн, а од јануари планираме отворање на канцеларија во Париз. Мислиме дека на тој начин ќе придонесеме за ширење на нашите и интересите на македонски организации ширум светот.
      Do you agree that the UMD needs to take responsibility and restructure its organization?? You cant Americanize a lobby group with the name Macedonia in it because you have to think like a Macedonian and think about our mentality and how we all think as Macedonians. Our arses are on the line with this name dispute and the Diaspora needs to be the most vocal out of everyone i feel the Human Rights groups in Toronto and Melbourne have been very good however the UMD lacks credibility in its official press releases because they represent everyone in the name of Macedonia, just like the Human Rights groups represent. When our name and identity is on the line you dont think about offending somebody you look to defend yourself just look at the Greeks as an example and they are not loosing their name and identity like we are and yet they are hitting us with everything while we hold back and think about others.

      Buktop, i notice you tend to say that UMD have volunteers and that its not their job to waste their time etc etc Mate the UMD doesnt have people skills, the UMD needs to take responsibility, the UMD needs to gain the trust of all Macedonians in the Diaspora and the UMD needs to be strong. Forget the bickering, there needs to be a proper structure in place, it makes no difference if you are a fully payed employee or a volunteer you need to be a professional and you need to know how to handle the people and always look for a solution to every problem. This is a sensitive issue and you have to understand that, heads should be rolling for this so if somebody is in doubt you look for ways to resolve it. We are not discussing how many Tulumbi somebody ate at the social club our name and identity is on the line and that needs to be looked at very seriously not have people being knocked back and labeled as Grkomani or whatever.

      This is a democracy not Communism, we have a right to a say and like Phoenix says question everything and see what you can do to make things better. Once you resolve the key issues we move on to doing what is right for us and for every Macedonian outside of the country. If you are going to have the US vs THEM battle you wont get anywhere, you say that 100% of the people who are against the UMD come from Australia well the UMD should fix that and they can do it dont think that they cant they just need to look for a solution not point fingers at certain individuals.

      You are not used to this much pressure because the majority of you people in North America are served by the groups, you only complain when the end result is terrible and then point fingers on whose fault it is which is all for nothing, Zhelezoto se kova dur e vrelo koga ke se oladi nishto ne prajme.

      Now im not stating that we in Australia are perfect and that you guys in North America are terrible however you cant blame us for thinking differently and that we should question whatever we feel is necessary and yes our name and identity is very important and we should both be pushing for a solution and help out anyway we can not give eachother lessons on how to behave and what not to say. You need to look at the big picture and regain the trust, you just have to try it and you will be surprised that many people want to see a strong UMD that will truly be the voice of every Macedonian in our Diaspora.
      МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

      Comment

      • Phoenix
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2008
        • 4671

        Originally posted by Buktop View Post
        Hey don't get me wrong SoM, I have no problem with public debate, just dont think you are fucking entitled to a personal response by UMD.

        Are you a member of UMD? If not, why do you think you are entitled to a response? They do not claim to represent all of us, they represent their members and future members.

        I am sick and tired of reading through endless posts UMD did this, UMD didnt do that, FUCK, if you guys are so fed up with UMD do something about it, dont fucking cry about it on some forum and then expect something to be done about it. Join up, or attend their meetings and give your opinion. As of right now all you people are doing is GANG BASHING. And yes that is what it is called when a group of people get together and try to see who can hate the UMD the most.

        If it is at all possible I would really like to know why 100% of UMD opposition is coming from Australia? I'm not saying all Australians hate UMD, but it seems that all or most opposition is coming from there.
        Wow, this is now getting quite scary...

        Why shouldn't SoM or any other concerned Macedonian be entitled to a personal response from UMD, anybody taking the time to write to UMD should be shown the respect to a personal response from a UMD representative...if UMD want to post on forum sites they should be expected to reply there as well...why should UMD be excluded from this universal responsibility.

        But this is the real sticking point with me, this belief that only UMD members are entitled to criticism and questioning, that UMD represents its financial members ONLY...sorry pal, you can stick that idea up your arse...

        If an organization claims that it represents the "Macedonian Diaspora" it can't trade on the goodwill of the entire Macedonian diaspora but actively represent the interests of a small number of financial members only...

        If UMD or any other group that claims it represents Macedonian and diaspora interest wants to trade only for its financial members I strongly suggest they adopt a totally appropriate name for this purpose, one that doesn't confuse the masses that it is representative of them...and the first starting point could be the removal of the terms "United" and "Diaspora"

        How 'bout something like... "The Coalition of North American Arse Kissers"

        With a suitable disclaimer...

        "The views depicted by this organization are those of its self serving financial members only. Any similarity to any organization that claims it represents the Macedonian Diasapora is merely coincidental."

        Comment

        • julie
          Senior Member
          • May 2009
          • 3869

          I am not a financial member of the UMD, however, that does not give them the right to say they represent the interests of the entire Macedonian diaspora. They dont reflect my views.
          "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

          Comment

          • Soldier of Macedon
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 13670

            Originally posted by Buktop
            Hey don't get me wrong SoM, I have no problem with public debate, just dont think you are fucking entitled to a personal response by UMD.
            Don't get you wrong? You come here to our forum with this divisive attitude that you have honed over at Maknews with your 'bulldozer' buddy, hurling all sorts of profanities, and presume to tell me what I am and not entitled to? Maybe you've hatched your head out of Maknews' arse a little too soon, don't get me wrong, of course.
            They do not claim to represent all of us, they represent their members and future members.
            So if I don't pay, I have no say? Perhaps that can be a new slogan for this 'non-profit' organisation. When Meto or somebody else makes a statement, do they make it on behalf of the UMD membership or the Macedonian Diaspora?
            I am sick and tired of reading through endless posts UMD did this, UMD didnt do that, FUCK
            If you can't take criticism then don't read it, quite simple, don't you think?
            if you guys are so fed up with UMD do something about it, dont fucking cry about it on some forum and then expect something to be done about it.
            We are trying to better them by giving them our criticism, so they can be more in line wiith the sentiments of the Macedonian Diaspora they claim to represent.
            And yes that is what it is called when a group of people get together and try to see who can hate the UMD the most.
            Yes it is, but unfortunately, and not for the first time, you have misunderstood what is happening here. You interpret criticism (constructive or otherwise) as hate, the trait of a loser who has nothing credible to respond with.
            If it is at all possible I would really like to know why 100% of UMD opposition is coming from Australia? I'm not saying all Australians hate UMD, but it seems that all or most opposition is coming from there.
            All or most? Leaving some room for error, to slither out of the blanket assertions you have made towards the Macedonian community in Australia? People like you and Maknews have done a fine job in alienating the UMD from large segments of the Macedonian Diaspora, and now more than ever, people are convinced that there is something really wrong with this whole situation.
            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

            Comment

            • Prolet
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2009
              • 5241

              Buktop, You see what i mean?? This only alienates the UMD from the rest of the people and you can clearly see it with the responses you got on your post. You have to look at the big picture and take this matter very seriously its not as simple as you might think, everyone here respects the UMD however the UMD needs to show responsibility and trust, this is something that no organization can hide from.

              Risto,SOM now that we know that Metodija A Koloski will be in Australia for the Month of February next year will any of you take the time to meet up with him and present the views here in this forum and our Macedonian Community in General? Spolaj Vi
              МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

              Comment

              • Soldier of Macedon
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 13670

                Prolet, excuse the action of my responding with a question to a question, but can you tell me what would be the difference if Meto was to give his answer to me in person as opposed to online?

                The average Macedonian like me is looking for clarity, and I wish to spread that message of clarity. Whatever Meto tells me in person as a response to that quest for clarity I will post up here on the public forums of the MTO. So, isn't it better if the UMD just give their response first hand to everybody, rather than going through a middle man, which could later be written off as 'word of mouth'?

                I am perplexed at the UMD reaction (or lack thereof) to the concerns raised by Macedonians in the Diaspora. I feel that the MTO provides them the same platform it does to other Macedonian groups (like the AMHRC), and while I don't expect them to get involved in every debate, discussion or argument on these boards, those that concern their organisation should be addressed, and the people they are addressing should be acknowledged as individuals, instead of insignificant nobodies that can casually be referred to some info.com link.

                I have never thought ill of Meto, even after his questionable statements, and it was not until he recently decided to disregard some inquiries made by Risto the Great and myself by referring us to some info.com link that I began to show a greater interest in the comments and reflections about him made by other Macedonians.
                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                Comment

                • Prolet
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2009
                  • 5241

                  SOM, Spolaj Ti i guess thats a fair answer

                  I dont believe that Metodija posts on this forum, as far as i remember Risto wrote an email then posted the response here on the forum.
                  МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                  Comment

                  • Soldier of Macedon
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 13670

                    The username 'UMDiaspora.org' is Meto, at least most of the time anyway.
                    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                    Comment

                    • Prolet
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2009
                      • 5241

                      SOM, How can you be so sure??
                      МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13670

                        Because he has confirmed it himself to other individuals at the MTO via private correspondence.
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • Phoenix
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2008
                          • 4671

                          Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post

                          All or most? Leaving some room for error, to slither out of the blanket assertions you have made towards the Macedonian community in Australia? People like you and Maknews have done a fine job in alienating the UMD from large segments of the Macedonian Diaspora, and now more than ever, people are convinced that there is something really wrong with this whole situation.
                          I think this is a really important point being made by SoM...why are a few very vocal UMD members/supporters making sweeping generalizations about the entire Australian Macedonian community, when clearly there's discontent from North American Macedonians and other quarters.

                          This gentleman, 'Maknews' has gone out of his way to attack the entire Australian Macedonian community, on nothing more substantial than the criticism of UMD by a handful of Australian Macedonian forum participants. 'Buktop' has now jumped in with similarly ill-founded and sweeping generalizations about 'agendas'...I sometimes wonder who it is that has the 'agenda'...?

                          'Buktop' has previously made it known that he knows Meto on a personal level, do we assume that 'Buktop' is expressing Meto's views on this matter?

                          How on Earth have we gone from a few people showing concern for the direction UMD have taken to an entire diaspora community being accussed of an anti-UMD agenda?

                          I've previously asked UMD to distance themselves from the views of 'Maknews' in regard to the attack on the Australian Macedonian diaspora, I can live with his petty personal attack on me, terms like "wingnut", "boot-polisher" and the like dont bother me but why attack all Australian Macedonians on the basis that their "life experiences" are inferior to an American's or a European's and now we have 'Buktop' adding his couple of cents worth of division to the mix.

                          UMD have an obligation to settle this festering matter, when one extremely powerful supporter of UMD through his internet site is making such silly, ill-informed and provocative statements against the Australian Macedonian community it can easily be construed as UMD sanctioned views...

                          So UMD, where do you officially stand, are you happy that your most vocal and powerful supporters do the bidding for you, if that's the case perhaps your organization would be better represented by the acronym... M.U.D.

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13670

                            Alot of anti-Australian sentiment expressed by supporters of the UMD and people who obviously believe they have the right to speak on their behalf, and the seemingly indifferent attitude of the UMD demonstrated through their silence appears to condone such sentiment.

                            No representation from Meto, no character? Whatever it is, no problem. What about the Ordan's and Boban's who are in Australia, does the uneasy feeling about the UMD that is prevalent among many Macedonians in Australia not concern them in the least?

                            Looks like Rogi may have stepped off the plate just in time.
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • Prolet
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2009
                              • 5241

                              SOM, Rogi still hasnt explained his reasons why he is no longer on the board however he is still in the UMD.

                              I cant speculate till Rogi officially confirms his stance on the UMD, i dont believe there is bad blood between them however im sure he has his reasons for leaving the board.

                              I strongly encourage people to see Nikola Gruevski's interview on Milenko's show which was on Sveti Nikola, its absolutely fantastic and Gjorgje Ivanov's 30 minute interview on A1 is just as good. As long as we have a good head on our shoulder its the most important thing, finally Nikola Gruevski and Gjorgje Ivanov have shown that they are not prepared to change our name and as Milenko said they are the last men standing who are defending our name, the longer we hang on the longer we stay alive the easier it will get for us and there is no way that we should be changing our name in any shape or form koj gi eba.

                              Lets not make this an us vs them battle and focus on the most important issues, they are accusing us in Australia of having some secret agenda to wipe them out while we think they are hiding something whenever we ask a question and we are both putting eachother on the spot and its not gonna get us anywhere. Its a clash of personalities and people have lost their cool and we must look for a solution to end this.
                              МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                              Comment

                              • Soldier of Macedon
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 13670

                                For months members of the UMD engaged in forum discussions, now they refuse to even answer questions. So who has lost their cool Prolet, UMD? Me? RtG? You? I think it would have been a sign of significant goodwill and character had they engaged in discussions with us and accept some constructive criticism, instead all our questions and comments are perceived as 'destructive' and are dismissed.

                                I can't speak for other people, but I am certainly not looking at this as a 'clash of personalities', I want them to take certain criticisms on board and improve themselves, not disintegrate as an organisation. I don't like the way this situation has eventuated, and I won't be made to feel like an 'enemy' of the UMD just for asking some questions and making some comments as a concerned member of the Macedonian Diaspora, which they claim to represent (In their meetings with political personalities for example, they don't claim to represent the paying members of the UMD, but the Macedonian Diaspora, therefore, they are speaking on behalf of myself and other Macedonians, so we are entitled to have our say, and entitled to a response - particularly if they frequent our forum).
                                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                                Comment

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