United Macedonia Diaspora

[Bratot]

With money.
Buy them immediately or wait the Greeks to go bankrupt. They are almost there.

[Buktop]

What IS "the cause" that we should be rallying around?

OUR BIGGEST ENEMY IS THE TRAITORS WITHIN OUR RANKS WHO ARE ABOUT TO SELL US OUT YET AGAIN AND YOU WANT US TO WORRY ABOUT SENSIBILITIES OF SOME RAMKOVIST MALAKAS.

Btw, nothing that really matters is being done by METO and his sidekicks except to divert attention from what really needs to be done and to drain Macedonian Diaspora of financial resources that should, and could, be better utilised to fight the TRAITORS within our ranks, especially in RM. In fact UMD is aligned with the Ramkovists and thus, IMO, it is also the enemy of the Macedonian people.

Our biggest enemy is ignorance, and your post is full of it.

[vodenka]

With money.
Buy them immediately or wait the Greeks to go bankrupt. They are almost there.

they are bankrupt but are greeks in Australia bankrupt, too?

[julie]

they are bankrupt but are greeks in Australia bankrupt, too?

Pozdrav Vodenka, , I doubt their combined resources would be the 6 trillion dollar debt Greece has. Loving the state of shit Greece is putting itself in

[vodenka]

Pozdrav Vodenka, , I doubt their combined resources would be the 6 trillion dollar debt Greece has. Loving the state of shit Greece is putting itself in

I always thought that the only way to get greeks to do the right thing and behave was to make them starve. It is not far the day that they will forget their "red lines" and "proud greek foreign policy of vetoes". They were ready to sell even the Parthenon for some money loan, can you believe that?

[Rogi]

If everything in Greece were for sale, and it just might be, how much would all the Government owned land in and around Lerin and Voden cost, and for that matter all Gov owned land in Aegean Macedonia? Just a curious question.

[Bratot]

If everything in Greece were for sale, and it just might be, how much would all the Government owned land in and around Lerin and Voden cost, and for that matter all Gov owned land in Aegean Macedonia? Just a curious question.

I doubt there is a real price value on that

But maybe this can be useful lil bit

Одземените имоти на Македонците од егејскиот дел на Македонија вредат повеќе од 10 милијарди евра.

http://www.mhrmi.org/news/2008/june30_m.asp

[osiris]

Oh come on Vangelovski you know what im talking about, we have 15 senators on our side thanks to the UMD.

prolet back this statement up or shut up.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I think that one of the problems is the fact that you and few others have based their opinion on few issues that have been spinned and blown out of proportions. You should based your opinion on the facts, the entire facts.

Alex, are you not tired of re-interpreting the truth over and over again, even when it is blatantly obvious that even Meto and yourself are incapable of consolidated your 'version of events' by sticking to one story? You know very well what my opinion is based on, and it is the facts, evidenced in print and on live footage. Meto's submissions and your scare-mongering have not been blown out of proportion, don't make me go back and look for the same excerpt texts and clips, everybody here has already seen them.

We get few people like Pelister who are frustrated with the current situaiton, past mistakes by the macedonian government and they hit it out at UMD.

No, those are lies, and you know it. Meto Koloski advocated a name other than (Republic of) Macedonia for international organisations, you spoke about toning down references to Macedonia's antique history and of the dark uncertainty and 'limbo' that we would face should we pull out of these negotiations which require us to change our identity, UMD press releases "applaud" Macedonian troops going to war, the recent census initiative has been severely undermined because the UMD put its complete trust in the MPO to take a lead in the coordinated efforts and now we have Macedonians being sent letters to declare as something other than Macedonians, etc, etc.

Don't you get it? Your own mistakes brought upon this criticism, and your refusal to acknowledge and address these adequately brought upon the continued resentment.

Now also remember that there are Macedonian organization trying to discredit UMD for their benefit........

The UMD have done a great job discrediting themselves. Which organisations are you making reference to? Or is this another question that goes unanswered, another statement that goes un-addressed?

The UMD meeting at Victoria University yesterday afternoon had a very low turnout, most there looked like they were Meto's associates in any case. Of course it is great to see a Macedonian group making such initiatives, and re-commencing some that previously fell through for whatever reason. There was also quite a bit said about the activities of others that the UMD had contact with. Did I leave 'impressed'? Why would I? He wasn't saying anything that anyone wasn't aware of, and he wasn't suggesting anything that anybody else would not have suggested had they been in such a position. He told the audience what they already know, what we all know that needs to be done. For that and for their efforts to make these moves, the UMD have my thanks. Unfortunately, for me, sponsoring an education initiative or providing some funds to the poor in Macedonia cannot cancel out other home truths relating to UMD concessions made on our Macedonian identity, particularly when the relevant individual(s) refuse to acknowledge the difference between right and wrong. Meto proved in Adelaide that he doesn't see much wrong with the 'democratic' prefix, as he states, Macedonia is a democracy afterall!! Naturally, he steered well clear from that topic yesterday.

The census initiative was an interesting point. Meto talked it up, 500,000 persons with Macedonian heritage in the U.S! He didn't tell his audience what you, Alex, have told us. He didn't inform the young and ignorant of the MPO's 'covert' activities which has seriously undermined the whole process. Why not? How much persons declaring Macedonian ancestry will there be now in the U.S, in your opinion? Did the MPO have the means (due to the coordinated efforts) to reach Macedonians they previously had no sway over?

I wasn't impressed with the way Meto responded to Veljan and Pero, like some young punk who didn't have the time of day for older Macedonians. Sure, some patience was required, but I think in their old age and life experience, they had earned the right to speak and get their point across. And while these guys asked their questions in Macedonian, Meto insisted that he respond in English, not giving them the courtesy they deserve, the old Macedonians that bleed Macedonia from their hearts. The look on Meto's face displayed a combination of shame (to be associated with them) and arrogance (towards them), and even others in the modest crowd near the front (who were associates of Meto) began to tell poor old Pero to hurry up, enough, let others speak - Let others speak, in a venue where there were about what, 25-30 people, most of whom were there to keep Meto company? When Meto did answer Pero in Macedonian, it was in response to a question about what is being done to 'reclaim' our heritage in the world, Meto answered well initially, by saying that it is up to us to tell the world.

Then, he asks Pero, how many letters has he sent to government representatives? This was followed up by suggestions alluding to the old man printing out documents and walking around parliament dropping them off in the mailboxes of politicians, or something to that effect. Meto, it isn't Pero who is going around claiming to be an activist and spending Macedonian Diaspora donations to finance world tours, it is you. Everybody can do their bit, but in their own way, you should hang your head in shame the way you spoke to him and Veljan earlier. Taka i na dedoti mu zboras?

A lady at the back asked an interesting question pertaining to UMD's stance on the Macedonian ethnicity, the response from Meto wasn't clinical in my opinion, and again, he managed to divert his answer so it can tie in to UMD membership, by saying that the UMD accept ethnic Macedonians and friends of Macedonians. That wasn't the question Meto. I noticed a common trend in this regard where it concerns Meto's responses, one way or another, he tries to turn nearly each of his responses into a mini-promo of the UMD, even when it doesn't make sense.

When Ordan asked a question it reminded me of the pitched discussion that takes place between a lawyer and his defendant on the stand, I will ask you this, you answer like that...........Anyway, as some of us were thinking about asking a 'difficult' question, Pero was shut down again and the event ended on that note.

The UMD's role in the Macedonian Disapora needs to be definitively determined, they can certainly serve a purpose, but not one where it concerns our identity. They should not, therefore, be the main liaison between the Macedonian government and the Macedonian Diaspora, as they do not represent the views of the Macedonian Diaspora, but rather, they represent a Diaspora group that supports the Macedonian government, in whatever decision they make.

[Pelister]

Originally Posted by indigen
What IS "the cause" that we should be rallying around?

OUR BIGGEST ENEMY IS THE TRAITORS WITHIN OUR RANKS WHO ARE ABOUT TO SELL US OUT YET AGAIN AND YOU WANT US TO WORRY ABOUT SENSIBILITIES OF SOME RAMKOVIST MALAKAS.

Btw, nothing that really matters is being done by METO and his sidekicks except to divert attention from what really needs to be done and to drain Macedonian Diaspora of financial resources that should, and could, be better utilised to fight the TRAITORS within our ranks, especially in RM. In fact UMD is aligned with the Ramkovists and thus, IMO, it is also the enemy of the Macedonian people.

This is completely unfounded and malicious.

No its not.

Read Locke, "Two Treaties of Government", Book II, Chapter XVI on the Rights of the Conquered and the Right of the Conqueror over the Conquered.

Very relevent to what is happening today in the Macedonian government.

The tell me if the Macedonians have any rights and whether they are excercising them.

No force, No institution (i.e., Greece, E.U), No process (i.e., negotiation process/talks/Interim Accord), No army "can take away any part of our identity without our own consent". (192)

We are at a stage where a few individuals can at the stroke of a pen and a few signatures, formally reject all of their rights, all of their history - the current Western processes make a mockery of the legal dictum (cemented in current international law) that "Persons are free by Native Right">

We have politics to blame for this, and UMD have been stupidly and recklessly playing with fire at the moment. Its been a typical headlong plunge by young, inexperienced upstarts, in the fking abyss.

What these Western processes have been set up to do is to 1. Provide a forum where the Macedonians consent to rejecting their own historical identity and rights, and 2. Once the forum has been created and the political stage is set for them to do this, and once the Macedonians have consented to participate, put pressure on them to do it.

I tell you the world must have held its breath when the Macedonians consented to participate in a forum/stage set up to get them to consent to rejecting their identity/history/culture.

UMD have been defending these anti-Macedonian processes since it was founded.

[Silver]

If everything in Greece were for sale, and it just might be, how much would all the Government owned land in and around Lerin and Voden cost, and for that matter all Gov owned land in Aegean Macedonia? Just a curious question.

This is a very good point Rogi, interesting times ahead for sure!

[osiris]

The UMD's role in the Macedonian Disapora needs to be definitively determined, they can certainly serve a purpose, but not one where it concerns our identity. They should not, therefore, be the main liaison between the Macedonian government and the Macedonian Diaspora, as they do not represent the views of the Macedonian Diaspora, but rather, they represent a Diaspora group that supports the Macedonian government, in whatever decision they make.

right on the button som. i am very concerned with their salf appointed saviour mentality their inability to take criticism and their close ties to the usa.

[Silver]

This is completely unfounded and malicious.

How about you and Mr Buktop stop playing on your computers all day seven days a week and show behond any doubt that it is just that.

[Rogi]

The old Dorothy Dixer. I love that term.

[Prolet]

prolet back this statement up or shut up.

Osiris, I heard it in Meto's speech remember? Im not sure why this is surprising you, you've even seen footage of it.

UMD, Which side of the fence is George Voinovich sitting on?