Possible Etymology of Alexander

[Philosopher]

You are not breaking it down in correct linguistic terms. The correct linguistic breaking of the word would be Bas and the next word.

I'm not following. I never attempted to break down the Greek "Basileus". I was asking you if it can be broken down similar to how "George" can be broken down. All I did was break down the Macedonian word "vasil" which corresponds to the Greek "Vasilleos", both of which are common names.

In other words, in greek the second word could derive from "έλευσις" wich is the coming of something. The first word, I think you can do it on your own. As a basis.

Again, I'm not following. So basically the prefix "Bas" has no meaning or it is unknown. And the second world "eleusis" is where the meaning would come in for the word "Basileus". So when the prefix and suffix are added, it means "king", even though etymologically speaking this is not possible.

The etymology is not certain of course.

In Greek it is uncertain, because in Greek the word cannot be broken down etymologically to give a basic meaning (like George). This would tend to indicate that the word is not of Greek origin.

Va and Sil? That's like saying that it's also Italian. Come Va?

This last statement is not intelligible. I'm not following you. Does the word "va" and "sil" in Italian mean "in power"?

[spitfire]

I'm not following. I never attempted to break down the Greek "Basileus". I was asking you if it can be broken down similar to how "George" can be broken down. All I did was break down the Macedonian word "vasil" which corresponds to the Greek "Vasilleos", both of which are common names.

Well I did break it for you didn't I?

Again, I'm not following. So basically the prefix "Bas" has no meaning or it is unknown. And the second world "eleusis" is where the meaning would come in for the word "Basileus". So when the prefix and suffix are added, it means "king", even though etymologically speaking this is not possible.

Etymologically there are many examples of prefix and suffix and words in general that don't mean directly something that the word itself means. Here's an example, police. It derives from polis which means the city but its meaning is the law enforcement body (which of course is product of the need of those living in the polis and so forth).

In Greek it is uncertain, because in Greek the word cannot be broken down etymologically to give a basic meaning (like George). This would tend to indicate that the word is not of Greek origin.

It can. I showed you how. However yes, it is not certain. As it is not in modern macedonian. What do you think of Basis and People? That would be "Βάση" and "Λαός" in greek, meaning the base of the people.

This last statement is not intelligible. I'm not following you. Does the word "va" and "sil" in Italian mean "in power"?

This is an example of Va. It is also a verb in Italian.

Can you show me the Va and Sil in ancient macedonian?

[Philosopher]

Well I did break it for you didn't I?

Yes you did, But that is not the issue. The issue is that you wrote that I did not break down the word correctly. But in truth, I never attempted to break it down. I only broke down the Macedonian word "vasil" and "George".

Etymologically there are many examples of prefix and suffix that don't mean directly something that the word itself means. Here's an example, police. It derives from polis which means the city but its meaning is the law enforcemnt body (which of course is product of the need of those living in the polis and so forth).

This would only be true if the Greek word "Basileus" was borrowed from another language, similar to how "police" is borrowed from Greek. If "Basileus" is of Greek origin, it would have etymological meaning in Greek. Police is an English word and it is borrowed, so I'm not sure if this comparison is fair.

It can. I showed you how. However yes, it is not certain. As it is not in modern macedonian.

Yes you broke it down, but when breaking this word down in Greek, it makes no sense. It appears to make as much sense as the English word "police".

This is an example of Va. It is also a verb in Italian.

Can you show me the Va and Sil in ancient macedonian?

Does the word "va" in Italian mean "in". And is there an Italian word "sil", which means "power"?

I cannot show you Va and Sil in ancient Macedonian as there are a scarcity of ancient Macedonian words in the historic record.

All I'm saying is that, etymologically speaking, "vasil" in Macedonian makes more sense than the Greek "Basileus".

[Amphipolis]

The first 40 seconds of this clip (form the film A Serious Man) give the answer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HJqPZ-KmZs

[spitfire]

Now I see what you mean Philosopher. By that you are saying that it makes more meaning in macedonian than in greek.

However if you go into linguistics, you'll find that occam's razor is not always how it works.

[Philosopher]

Now I see what you mean Philosopher. By that you are saying that it makes more meaning in macedonian than in greek.

However if you go into linguistics, you'll find that occam's razor is not always how it works.

No disagreements there. Perhaps others on this forum can enlighten us some more on this and other words, including, of course, Alexander.

[spitfire]

So how many derivatives of Vasil are there in macedonian? I think it's a good chance to find out how Vasil is used and its derivatives in the meaning of king. As in greek. Because this is a way to find out linguistically its meaning. If it is used in modern macedonian along with its derivatives in the sene of king.

[Philosopher]

So how many derivatives of Vasil are there in macedonian? I think it's a good chance to find out how Vasil is used and its derivatives in the meaning of king. As in greek. Because this is a way to find out linguistically its meaning. If it is used in modern macedonian along with its derivatives in the sene of king.

In Macedonian, vasil is not the word for "king". The word for king is крал, or kral.

As far as I know, vasil is only a common name.

Maybe someone can provide more information on this.

[spitfire]

In Macedonian, vasil is not the word for "king". The word for king is крал, or kral.

As far as I know, vasil is only a common name.

Maybe someone can provide more information on this.

Just to make this clear. Vasil is one word right? A verb right?

[Philosopher]

Just to make this clear. Vasil is one word right? A verb right?

One word. Not a verb. It is a name. So it would be a noun.

It is possible, however, that historically it may have been used differently. Perhaps someone knows better.

[Philosopher]

Loot at it this way.

Vassileos in Greek is a name, right? Vasil in Macedonian is also a name. Vassileos in Greek stems from Vasileus or Basileus, king. In Greek, the word for king is the same. In Macedonian, they are different.

You have to bear in mind that "vasil" does not mean "king" in Macedonian. The argument put forth is that etymologically speaking, the elemental meaning of "Basil" is "(someone) in power". Out of this elementary definition, stems "Basil", "king".

[spitfire]

One word. Not a verb. It is a name. So it would be a noun.

It is possible, however, that historically it may have been used differently. Perhaps someone knows better.

If there are no other uses, then I'm afraid that there is less of correlation in macedonian than in greek.

For instance, it would be like saying that the name Napoleon makes more sense in Greek because it means "To say lion" meaning that nopoleon was a lion, therefore someone with power. It does not correlate.

We are looking for meanings and uses in order to find the signifier and the signified, so at this time I can't see any correlation of the name in macedonian.

[Philosopher]

If there are no other uses, then I'm afraid that there is less of correlation in macedonian than in greek.

For instance, it would be like saying that the name Napoleon makes more sense in Greek because it means "To say lion" meaning that nopoleon was a lion, therefore someone with power. It does not correlate.

We are looking for meanings and uses in order to find the signifier and the signified, so at this time I can't see any correlation of the name in macedonian.

The word "Basileus" in Greek has no etymological meaning. It is a borrowed word. In Macedonian, "vasil" appears to be a more logical choice for the origin of "Basil" because it forms the elementary concept of someone in power, like a prince or a king.

An argument can be made that, like with most words, the word "Basileus" overtime took on the exclusive meaning "king" because the word evolved to mean specifically a king, rather than "in power".

There are many words that have root meanings, which, over time, expand and evolve.

[Philosopher]

For instance, it would be like saying that the name Napoleon makes more sense in Greek because it means "To say lion" meaning that nopoleon was a lion, therefore someone with power. It does not correlate.

This was an old Italian name, used most notably by the French emperor Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821), who was born on Corsica. It is possibly derived from the Germanic Nibelungen, the name of a race of dwarfs in Germanic legend, which meant "sons of mist". Alternatively, it could be connected to the name of the Italian city of Napoli (Naples).

http://www.behindthename.com/name/napoleon

Greek Meaning:
The name Napoleon is a Greek baby name. In Greek the meaning of the name Napoleon is: Of the new city.

http://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/napoleon

[Philosopher]

If there are no other uses, then I'm afraid that there is less of correlation in macedonian than in greek.

For instance, it would be like saying that the name Napoleon makes more sense in Greek because it means "To say lion" meaning that nopoleon was a lion, therefore someone with power. It does not correlate.

It does not correlate because to suggest "to say lion" correlates with "in power" because a lion is powerful makes no sense Spitfire. To even suggest this is dishonest.

The odds that a word "Vasil" or "Basil" would be spelled the same and have a primitive elementary meaning of "in power" are not likely. You cannot compare this with "Napoleon".