United Macedonia Diaspora

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  • Vangelovski
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 8531

    Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View Post
    But you're in the business of just stating the fact that you have these emails with such damning evidence Please let me know when you decide to get off the moral high horse because then I will ask this admin to tell us if what you claim is the truth or not. Until then let's keep the word "charlatan" down from a 10 to 1 because it can now be reverted back to you.
    TM,

    What could be more damning that video footage of Meto saying that a name change would be acceptable? If you can’t accept that and all the other statements UMD Board members have made, what makes you think you'll accept what Meto wrote in an email as “definitive” evidence of anything?

    UMD’s stance is more than obvious in the public statements it has made. Not only is it unethical for me to divulge the contents of private correspondence, its also completely unnecessary in case. So as far you you're concerned, those emails don't even exist.
    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

    Comment

    • Vangelovski
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 8531

      Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View Post
      Really? Is that what they claim? - http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/31/67/

      Mission and Officers
      Friday, 29 April 2005

      Mission

      United Macedonian Diaspora (UMD) is an international non-governmental organization addressing the interests and needs of Macedonians and Macedonian communities throughout the world.

      Where do they state this fact? I don't see that they make a claim to represent ALL Macedonians. This is from 2005,,, weren't you on the board at this time?
      Read it again. Yes, I was on the "Board" at that time, and that should give you a clue as to the usurpation of power in the Washington HQ, which Rogi alluded to.
      If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

      The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

      Comment

      • Buktop
        Member
        • Oct 2009
        • 934

        Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
        Because I have little interest in the UMD's By-Laws, the debate is off limits to me? When an organisation purports to represent me, (and you know you confused the hell out of that statement when you defended Meto last time ... refer below), then I am very interested in hearing of them meeting with politicians etc. and conveying my "apparent" opinion. As an example, I don't want the name changed, so when the current leader says otherwise, it interests me.

        Here is what you said about him if you have forgotten:
        It sounds very noble. I serve the Macedonian Diaspora in my own bizarre way for no money whatsoever. Others like the AMHRC do it for no money as well. I don't think I ever received financial statements from the UMD whilst I was a paying member. How much was that wage to Meto again?


        You have skirted around the issue I raised at least 2 times. I will make it simpler for you with pictures;

        Vangelovski ADD Rogi = aligned in interests pertaining to Macedonian matters.

        UMD MINUS (Vangelovski + Rogi) = Balance has shifted in another direction. (Confirmed by Rogi)

        You agree with Rogi = balance has now shifted in a way you do not agree with.

        If you can't read between the lines with Rogi's comments, then perhaps you should pursue some lines of thought that are less abstract.
        You asked me about the balance of UMD, and yet you haven't told me yet whether you met with your UMD representatives in Australia. Why don't you go find out what the balance is if you are so interested.

        I never said interest in the bylaws, i said interest in the operations and actions of UMD and their Australian office.

        I bring up the bylaw dates because Vangelovski has been misrepresenting the facts when he full well knows what they state, and has outright lied about not knowing the adopted bylaws. I cannot support or condone the statements of liars.

        Why don't you ask Meto about your other concerns when he comes?
        "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

        Never once say you walk upon your final way
        though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
        Our long awaited hour will draw near
        and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

        Comment

        • Vangelovski
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 8531

          Originally posted by buktop View Post
          i don't give a shit who's theories or principles they are, the macedonian constitution is flawed and therefor allows for these actions. Take it up with the writers of the constitution!
          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

          Comment

          • TrueMacedonian
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2009
            • 3810

            Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
            TM,

            What could be more damning that video footage of Meto saying that a name change would be acceptable? If you can’t accept that and all the other statements UMD Board members have made, what makes you think you'll accept what Meto wrote in an email as “definitive” evidence of anything?

            UMD’s stance is more than obvious in the public statements it has made. Not only is it unethical for me to divulge the contents of private correspondence, its also completely unnecessary in case. So as far you you're concerned, those emails don't even exist.
            Ah yes it would be unethical. Yet it's ethical to go on a public forum and make such a strong claim that would eventually make the UMD fold and close its doors if it were true. Until you agree to the terms then I call bull
            Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

            Comment

            • TrueMacedonian
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2009
              • 3810

              Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
              Read it again. Yes, I was on the "Board" at that time, and that should give you a clue as to the usurpation of power in the Washington HQ, which Rogi alluded to.
              Your tactics are similar to Pelisters. I love it. Do you see where it states they represent ALL MACEDONIANS AROUND THE WORLD LIKE YOU CLAIM???? I don't. I see that it states that it represents Macedonians all over the world. That can be some, a few hundred, a few thousand, tens of thousands. But it does not mean ALL.
              Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

              Comment

              • Vangelovski
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 8531

                Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View Post
                Ah yes it would be unethical. Yet it's ethical to go on a public forum and make such a strong claim that would eventually make the UMD fold and close its doors if it were true. Until you agree to the terms then I call bull
                TM,

                UMD made its own public statements, which can only be taken as an accurate reflection of what UMD stands for.

                If I made a 'strong claim' based on the public evidence available, well thank you )
                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                Comment

                • Buktop
                  Member
                  • Oct 2009
                  • 934

                  Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                  Charlatan,

                  Thats Rogi's view on the by-laws - mine is different.

                  In all the organisations I've help found and written constitutions for (mostly Canberra/Queanbyean based), they've all had temporary management committees until their constitutions were adopted and their organisation was registered. Once these two actions were undertaken they held elections. None of these have taken more than 6-12 months from the time the organisation's inception to the time of elections - registration and constitutional processes included. Now, I understand sometimes things take longer, but 7 YEARS for the FIRST election? And for an organisation that claims to have 4,000 fee paying members and claims to represent the ENTIRE diaspora? That does not sound reasonable to me.
                  None of your little pool-hall clubs have ever left their backyards, UMD spans 3 continents, with their members coming from all over the world, not just some hall in Canberra/Queanbyean. This alone makes the process of holding elections a little more difficult.
                  "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                  Never once say you walk upon your final way
                  though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                  Our long awaited hour will draw near
                  and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                  Comment

                  • TajnataKniga
                    Member
                    • Dec 2009
                    • 196

                    vangelovski

                    Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                    Read it again. Yes, I was on the "Board" at that time, and that should give you a clue as to the usurpation of power in the Washington HQ, which Rogi alluded to.
                    usurpation of power in washington hq?

                    read this:



                    Board of Directors and Officers
                    Metodija A. Koloski, President

                    Aleksandar Mitreski, Vice President

                    Michael A. Sarafin, Secretary

                    Denis Manevski, Treasurer

                    Ordan Andreevski, Director, Australian Operations

                    Jim Daikos, Director, Canadian Operations


                    Boban Jovanovski, Director, Policy Planning

                    Ivona M. Grimberg, Director, Economic Development Program

                    Stojan Nikolov, Director

                    Aleksandra Trpkovska, Director, The Fund for Macedonian Children

                    Mark Branov, UMD Voice

                    looks like there are 2 board who are outside of washington hq. and if umd was only washington hq, why is umd on tour of australia in february? and vangelovski, why is the umd global conference in toronto this year and not washington hq? im confused.

                    Comment

                    • Vangelovski
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 8531

                      Charlatan,

                      Seeing as you know my entire CV, please remind me which pool-halls I've helped establish, what their geographical expansion is and how many members they have.
                      If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                      The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                      Comment

                      • Buktop
                        Member
                        • Oct 2009
                        • 934

                        Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                        once again just wasting space and time because you have no argument. How about we go a few posts back and see exactly what I was saying, and compare it to article 8 of the constitution and see who is a charlatan...
                        Last edited by Buktop; 01-14-2010, 10:12 PM.
                        "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                        Never once say you walk upon your final way
                        though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                        Our long awaited hour will draw near
                        and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                        Comment

                        • Vangelovski
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 8531

                          Originally posted by TajnataKniga View Post
                          usurpation of power in washington hq?

                          read this:

                          http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/31/67/

                          Board of Directors and Officers
                          Metodija A. Koloski, President

                          Aleksandar Mitreski, Vice President

                          Michael A. Sarafin, Secretary

                          Denis Manevski, Treasurer

                          Ordan Andreevski, Director, Australian Operations

                          Jim Daikos, Director, Canadian Operations

                          Boban Jovanovski, Director, Policy Planning

                          Ivona M. Grimberg, Director, Economic Development Program

                          Stojan Nikolov, Director

                          Aleksandra Trpkovska, Director, The Fund for Macedonian Children

                          Mark Branov, UMD Voice

                          looks like there are 2 board who are outside of washington hq. and if umd was only washington hq, why is umd on tour of australia in february? and vangelovski, why is the umd global conference in toronto this year and not washington hq? im confused.
                          TM,

                          You're a confused individual. Maybe you should join the UMD Board, find out how it works for yourself, then come back here and post on the topic. Two Baord members - WOW!!! At the time I left, about 40% of UMD members were from Australia - how does 2 out of 11 reflect that?
                          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                          Comment

                          • TajnataKniga
                            Member
                            • Dec 2009
                            • 196

                            umd has a branch in australia: http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/421/127/

                            and umd has a volunter staff in australia: http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/422/130/

                            Our Australian Volunteer Staff

                            Ordan Andreevski, Director of Australian Operations

                            B.A Urban Studies, Grad. Dip. Planning, Master of Business Marketing (Monash)


                            Ljupco Stankovski, Editor in Chief, Australian Macedonian Weekly

                            Zoran Milenkovski
                            , UMD Co-founder

                            Zoran has a Masters (IT Project Mgmt.) from RMIT and has experience in IT project management and network/communications management. In addition, Zoran has worked with companies including MayneGroup, Armaguard, Toll Logistics, SKAI Systems. Zoran also is a share holder and board member of Chinese technology company www.qnite.com.

                            Anthony Laskovski, PhD Candidate, University of Newcastle

                            sounds to me umd has an educated bunch involved.

                            Comment

                            • Vangelovski
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 8531

                              Charlatan,

                              How about you READ the entire thread. How about you learn the basics of constitutionalism and republicanism and then read the Macedonian constitution.

                              How about you test your "theories" with a law professor or a political philosophy professor?
                              If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                              The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                              Comment

                              • indigen
                                Senior Member
                                • May 2009
                                • 1558

                                Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                                That all said, my motivation and enthusiasm and dedication to work for the Macedonian Cause is in no way lowered.

                                In fact it is at its' peak - I want the Macedonian Cause to be defined and adopted by the Macedonian Parliament, I didn't waste my time writing that initial draft, that will end up being a historic document. In 100 years, if anybody wants to dispute who the Macedonians were and what they stood for, they'll be destroyed by the definition of the Macedonian Cause which lays it all out.
                                Your aim/idea has merit but is not original, as you can see below:

                                Македонска национална програма
                                Споделете ја веста

                                Предлог на Тодор Петров,
                                не беше прифатена од македонскиот парламент
                                7-8 август 1993 година
                                Скопје, Македонија
                                (1) Македонскиот народ врз основа на правото на секој народ на самоопределување има неприкосновено природно, историско и цивилизациско право на сопствена, слободна, суверена, самостојна и независна држава Македонија.
                                (2) Македонија е национална држава на македонскиот народ.
                                (3) Носител на државноста во државата Македонија е македонскиот народ.
                                (4) Во Македонија службен јазик е македонскиот јазик и неговото кирилско писмо.
                                (5) Македонскиот народ нема никогаш, под какви и да е услови и од чија и да е страна, да го промени или да прифати промена на единственото многувековно име на својата држава Македонија, нераскинливо поврзано со името на македонскиот народ.
                                Македонскиот народ ги отфрла сите додавки пред и после името на неговата Македонска држава, бидејќи истото се состои само од еден единствен збор - Македонија.
                                (6) Обврска и чест на секој Македонец, по род и државјанство од Македонија и од целиот свет е да ги брани и одбрани самостојноста, интегритетот и името на Македонија и на македонскиот народ и нација.
                                (7) Македонија мора да го преземе членството во меѓународните органи, организации и заедници и во Обединетите Нации под своето единствено и многувековно име Македонија.
                                Македонија и македонскиот народ ја прифаќаат Повелбата на Обединетите Нации.
                                (8) Македонскиот народ нема никогаш да се откаже, ниту ќе прифати кој и да е во негово име да се откаже од неговите државни, земски и национални симболи - шеснаесет-зрачното златно-жолто сонце и златно-жолтиот двоопаш лав на црвен штит - и целосно го отфрла прифаќањето и наметнувањето на референцата “Поранешна Југословенска Република Македонија” или што и да е друго, макар и привремено, освен единственото и многувековно име на сопствената држава - Македонија.
                                Македонија нема никаков спор во врска со своето име со никого, а најмалку со соседна Грција, ниту пак Македонците кога и да е досега го менувале своето единствено име, како што тоа го правеле Атињаните со нивното име.
                                Впрочем, Македонија никогаш не била грчка, а Македонците никогаш не биле Грци.

                                [....]

                                Предлог на Тодор Петров, не беше прифатена од македонскиот парламент 7-8 август 1993 година Скопје, Македонија

                                Makedonska Nacionalna Programa (SMK- 1993) - Macedonian National Program (WMC - 1993)
                                ТРГНУВАЈЌИ од историската вистина дека Македонија е

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