De Origine Successibusque Slavorum 1532

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  • TrueMacedonian
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 3810

    De Origine Successibusque Slavorum 1532

    De Origine Successibusque Slavorum (On the Origin and Glory of the Slavs) was published in 1595 in Venice.



    A native of Hvar, Dominican Vinko Pribojević, humanist and historian, was the first to express the idea of unity of all Slavs in his work “De origine successibusque Slavorum,” Venice 1532. The work was later translated into Italian and published in Venice in 1595. The first part of Pribojević’s work is devoted to the origin and fame of the Slavs, while the second part gives a short geographic description and history of Dalmatia. The third part is devoted to his native island of Hvar. He delineates its glorious past, its economic and cultural importance and the scientific and military contributions of his countrymen. Pribojević’s ideas, although influenced by Polish historiography, which believed that the cradle of Slavs was in Illyricum, are important because he was the first among the South Slavs who expressed the idea about the great Slavic community of nations. He is considered to be a forerunner of the pan-Slavic idea and the later Illyrian Movement. His work was a source for the history written later by Mavro Orbini.





    The following text I am going to post is the general view of modern historians in regards to Vinko Pribojević and what they deem as "Pan-Slavism". I post this because it makes mention of Vinko's view of the Ancient Macedonians, Illyrians, and Thracians as being a people of the same nation who speak the same language. It also makes mention of an interesting text called "The Donation of the Slavs by Alexander the Great".


    page 223







    What are your thoughts?
    Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!
  • Soldier of Macedon
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 13670

    #2
    My thoughts? Excellent.

    It proves that not only the Macedonians, but the Slavic-speaking people of Croatia have considered Alexander the Great and the Ancient Macedonians a related people to themselves and a part of their historical origins, well before the 19th century.
    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

    Comment

    • Daskalot
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 4345

      #3
      It is a very good find, he was the predecessor to Mauro Orbini, both their works are great.
      Macedonian Truth Organisation

      Comment

      • Daskalot
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 4345

        #4
        The book is available in an Australian library.

        O podrijetlu i slavi Slavena / Vinko Pribojevic ; preveli Veljko Gortan, Pavao Knezovic ; priredio Miroslav Kurelac
        Macedonian Truth Organisation

        Comment

        • Daskalot
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 4345

          #5
          In the year 1525 on the Island of Hvar in front of a selected audience, the social and intellectual elite of this prosperous Adriatic community, the learned Dominican monk Vinko Pribojevic (Vincentius Priboevius) gave an oration titled De Origine Successibusque Slavorum. With a wide stroke of the brush, Pribojevic painted his history of the Slavs from times immemorial to the present day, incorporating in it the histories of various ancient peoples, such as the Thracians, Macedonians, Goths, Gets, Vandals, Sarmatians, Gepids and Illyrians, all of whom he declared Slavs.

          Pribojevic ignored the migration of the Slavs to the Balkan peninsula in the sixth century, and claimed ethnic continuity for the Slavs in these regions. By doing so, he invented an ancient tradition for contemporary Slavic Dalmatia, linking it with the heritage of the ancient Illyrians. In the case of such an invented tradition, one can easily note the obvious connection between the claim of a glorious history, and the author's (in this case Pribojevic's) ability to identify a particular historical person (Emperor Diocletian, Aristotle, St. Jerome etc.) or entire nations such as Goths, Macedonians or Vandals as valid members of a communal past. The mechanism used for distinguishing the ancestors from the others, contains the core elements that constitutes an understanding of itself and its community. For this purpose, Pribojevic used the criteria applied since the early Middle Ages, to distinguish various ethnic groups, namely descent, language and customs.
          This study uses Pribojevic's oration as a case study in the research of early modern protonationalism. The aim is, through the use of an ethno-symbolic framework analyse Pribojevic's understanding of collective identity, to show it as a new model of Dalmatian patriotism, one consciously built on the Slavic character of 16th century Dalmatia. Furthermore, the study will suggest that unlike the works from the later period known as "Slovinstvo," which placed an emphasis on the special relationship between South Slavs nad Illyrians, Pribojevic's narrative operated on two different levels, a Dalamtian and pan-Slavic. There is no special notion of unity or relationship to the other south Slavs. To the author of Oratio Croatia, Bosnia and Serbia were of equal importance as Moscovia, Cassubia or Bohemia.
          VinkoPribojeviAndTheGloryOfTheSlavs.pdf
          Macedonian Truth Organisation

          Comment

          • Daskalot
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 4345

            #6
            Here is another interesting work by Domagoj Madunic.
            Domagoj_Madunic_What_makes_Slavs_Slav_(draft).doc
            Macedonian Truth Organisation

            Comment

            • TrueMacedonian
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2009
              • 3810

              #7
              Daskalot thanks for the link. Here's something interesting I found on page 44 of that link that quotes Pribojevic's book:

              So there is no reason for anyone to be puzzled that Ottoman Sultan put so much praise
              in people of Slavic origin, that almost all of his commanders are appointed from their
              ranks, and that he maintains the corps, almost 20,000 strong for his personal guard
              composed of Thracians, Macedonians and Illyrians.
              142
              Experience has shown, especially in this unfortunate times of ours, that Ottoman heirs,
              by the use of Slavic troops overcame kingdoms, obtained empires, took over strongly
              fortified cities and with all forces press to ruin the roman empire, and if the hand of
              the God almighty do not assist us, they will destroy the true faith.
              Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

              Comment

              • TrueMacedonian
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2009
                • 3810

                #8
                This is also interesting from page 46:

                To prove the Slavic character of the Macedonians, Pribojević's first step was to prove that their language is not same as that of the Greeks. To achieve this, he used an anecdote found in History of Alexander the Great by Quintus Curtius Rufus. According to the story told by Rufus (and retold by Pribojević), when Philotas son of
                Parmenio was put on trial in front of the Macedonian army (large part of which were the Greeks), Alexander asked him, "Philotas, the Macedonians are going to judge you, state whether you will use your mother-tongue in front of them." Philotas answered that he will not, because not everyone will be able to understand him, which provoked Alexander to respond, that Philota hates his mother-tongue.148
                The conclusion Pribojević draws from this short story is that Philotas decided not to speak his native language (Macedonian) in front of the army because it was a different one from the common language of the entire army (Greek). Since the Macedonians and Greeks did not speak the same language, they can not be considered the same people. So Hvar Dominican argues: it has become the custom of old, that the unity of the descent is proved by unity of the speech, and thus we consider as the members of the same kin, only those who have in
                tender age together with the mothers milk, also mothers-tongue received.
                This, for him proves that the Macedonians have always, as today, spoke only the
                Slavic language, and are therefore Slavs.
                Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                Comment

                • Daskalot
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 4345

                  #9
                  Here is the republished edition of Mauro Orbini's great work, it is from 1968 and it is in Serbian.

                  Mavro_Orbin-Kraljevstvo_Slovena.pdf
                  Macedonian Truth Organisation

                  Comment

                  • Delodephius
                    Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 736

                    #10
                    And this book was published in AD 1532, now is it? And Mauro Orbini's in AD 1601? Both, way back then, claimed ancient Macedonians spoke a form of Slavic like the Macedonians of their time spoke. In the 16th century!
                    अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
                    उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
                    This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
                    But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

                    Comment

                    • Delodephius
                      Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 736

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Daskalot View Post
                      Here is the republished edition of Mauro Orbini's great work, it is from 1968 and it is in Serbian.

                      Mavro_Orbin-Kraljevstvo_Slovena.pdf
                      Actually that version is crap. If you read the text in red (assuming you know Serbian) the guy who published this PDF comments on the fact that the book starts from the page 242 because according to the historians who republished it the "previous parts are too complicated and boring for the general public". The book conveniently starts from the time of the Nemanić dynasty in Serbia, i.e. from the 12th century. The book is also stuffed with comments of the historians so to steer the reader into the correct way of thinking and interpreting Orbini's work. The original or it's full translation, especially the missing part from this version, I couldn't find anywhere.
                      अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
                      उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
                      This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
                      But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

                      Comment

                      • TrueMacedonian
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2009
                        • 3810

                        #12
                        I would like to see text from Hanibal Lucic, Dinko Ranjin, Dominiko Zlataric, and Ivan Gundulic now. These are the 4 names that John Fine states have similar view with Orbini and Pribojevic.
                        Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                        Comment

                        • Daskalot
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 4345

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Slovak/Anomaly/Tomas View Post
                          Actually that version is crap. If you read the text in red (assuming you know Serbian) the guy who published this PDF comments on the fact that the book starts from the page 242 because according to the historians who republished it the "previous parts are too complicated and boring for the general public". The book conveniently starts from the time of the Nemanić dynasty in Serbia, i.e. from the 12th century. The book is also stuffed with comments of the historians so to steer the reader into the correct way of thinking and interpreting Orbini's work. The original or it's full translation, especially the missing part from this version, I couldn't find anywhere.
                          Tomas, it is better then nothing
                          It is a cleaned up version, I would like to see the original text, there are only bits and pieces of it on the internet, do you have any ability to find this book and the other in a library in Serbia?
                          Macedonian Truth Organisation

                          Comment

                          • Daskalot
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 4345

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Slovak/Anomaly/Tomas View Post
                            And this book was published in AD 1532, now is it? And Mauro Orbini's in AD 1601? Both, way back then, claimed ancient Macedonians spoke a form of Slavic like the Macedonians of their time spoke. In the 16th century!
                            this is how the cookie crumbles, this is information that will be hard to digest for our Greek friends.
                            Macedonian Truth Organisation

                            Comment

                            • TrueMacedonian
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 3810

                              #15
                              Daskale with things like this as well http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...read.php?t=387

                              and this;

                              Title page. Page 143. Source: Epistolae Ho-Elianae:Familiar letters by James Howell, 10th edition, 1737. As you all can read for yourselves, Osman II was executed by his uncle Mustafa I in 1622, he had then been a Sultan since 1618 thus his reign only lasted 4 years. During this time he held the Titles that I

                              I'm not sure if anyone has heard of this man, he was born in Croatia. born 1498, Griane, Croatia, Hung. died January 1578, Rome, Papal States [Italy] The Life and Works of Giorgio Giulio Clovio Miniaturist with Notices of His Contemporaries and of the Art of Book Decoration in the Sixteenth Century http://www.amazon


                              And something from Russia with love

                              'Alexander the Great was Macedonian, tied to the present Macedonians" says in the faximille edition of the Russian 'Illustrated Notes' from the 16th century, reports daily Vecer.

                              The book has 10,000 pages, covering all of history until the 16th century. It was made on direct orders by the Russian czar Ivan Grozny. His wish had been for the Russian children to know the world's history.




                              (The above text needs further examination though apparently the Russians have confirmed this themselves.) They can deny until their faces turn blue.
                              Last edited by TrueMacedonian; 04-10-2009, 02:31 PM.
                              Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

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