Macedonia and the European Union

[George S.]

At the moment the eu has no jurisdiction on macedonia as soon as it joins macedonia will get her share of someonelses debt & surrender their soveregnity at the same time.

[Delodephius]

The truth is the exact opposite. All european countries are loosing power in world stage since the day they became EU members and since the day they started to obey the federalist policy of nonsense, leaded by French lobby.

Well duh! That's the whole point. Individual European countries are suppose to lose power and eventually their sovereignty. And eventually all countries in the world. That is what I support.

[George S.]

proof of what i have been saying that germany may pull the pin because it's not there to keep bailing stupid nations out.germany can survive without the eu.

[George S.]

The other evidence of the eu crumbling that it's multiculyurist policies are crumbling so much that border controls have been necessary to keep undesirables out.

[Onur]

But if the EU flag belongs to the Eurocrats, if I want it to be mine, I guess I'll just have do my best to become an Eurocrat.

Nah, i dont think so cuz these Eurocrats claims to be leftists but they discriminate people more than far-rightists. To be one of them, you gotta be western European, preferably catholic and have the "elegance Français", tu compris monsieur?

In their eyes, you are from Balkans, which is a muslim infested gypsy land. But don't worry, you have your duty in United states of Europe too, which would be something like;

Kate's dazzling dress is made in Romanian 'sweatshop' by women on just 99p an hour

Costing Ł175 on the high street, it helped the Duchess of Cambridge outshine the First Lady. But the Reiss dress that made such an impression when the pair met this week was manufactured by women paid only 99p an hour in a poor suburb of the Romanian capital, the Daily Mail has discovered.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=5595

[Delodephius]

Oh how little you know me. Well actually, you don't know me at all. I'm not from the Balkans first of all. I'm from Vojvodina (it says so in my location: Iazygia, which is the ancient Roman name for Bačka, the region I live in), which is in Central Europe. We were part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and we remember those days fondly. In our manners and customs were are indistinguishable from the Germans. Our architecture much like that from Vienna. I was also raised as a Lutheran and most of my townspeople are either Lutheran or Catholic. A many of teachers, professors, politicians or just men of influence in Vojvodina were and still are Slovaks. But the Serbs in Vojvodina too, or as they are called Lalas (Tulips) are in their manners and behaviour very different from the Serbs south of the Danube and look at them as primitive and barbaric.

We refer to all the people south of the Danube as Turks, that is when we want to insult them, the Serbs that is, since in our eyes there's no bigger insult than to call someone a Turk.

To me it is all irrelevant however. I'm just describing my background.

[Onur]

Oh how little you know me. Well actually, you don't know me at all. I'm not from the Balkans first of all.

I responded to you but i was talking in general for other forum readers too, about the proposed role of Balkan states, people by the eurocrats in Brussels.

I'm from Vojvodina (it says so in my location: Iazygia, which is the ancient Roman name for Bačka, the region I live in), which is in Central Europe. We were part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and we remember those days fondly.

So, you live in a place which has been stolen from Hungary by the ancestors of the eurocrats.

In our manners and customs were are indistinguishable from the Germans.

Wow, i am thrilled. So, you look like Germans, Quelle privilege!!! (Je suis desole, la langue Allemande est tres vulgaire pour ma bouche )

But the Serbs in Vojvodina too, or as they are called Lalas (Tulips) are in their manners and behaviour very different from the Serbs south of the Danube and look at them as primitive and barbaric.

No need to translate that to me, since it`s a Turkish word already, "Lale". Maybe you don't know but Dutch people learned to cultivate tulips from the Turks in Ottoman era and the very first tulips has been given to the Dutch as a gift from the Porte in Istanbul.

Ohh, you still got 8000+ more Turkish words in your language, right? Quell barbares!!!

We refer to all the people south of the Danube as Turks, that is when we want to insult them, the Serbs that is, since in our eyes there's no bigger insult than to call someone a Turk.

I am honored by that, for real

[Delodephius]

Ehm, Serbian is not my native language, and most "Turkish" words in Serbian are ultimately from Persian btw, like the following (in their Serbian spelling):

- ambar, azur, adždaja
- babo, bazar, badža, baždar, bakšiš, barabar, bašta, baštovan, bećar, bedak, behar, berberin, bezistan, bor, boraks, bostan, bošča, boza, burazer, burek, buregdžija,
- čarapa, čardak, čarka, čaršaf, čaršija, čerkeš, česma, čifčija, činija, čirak, čobanin, čoja, čorba, čunak,
- ćar, ćasa, ćela, ćemane, ćilibar, ćilim, ćora, ćorsokak, ćosa, ćoše,
- dada, dar-mar, dembel, derviš, dilber, divan, dugme, dunđerluk, dušmanin,
- džambas, džigerica, džumbus,
- đerdap, đevđir, đul,
- ferman,
- gungula,
- hodža,
- ibrišim,
- jadac, jagma, jaran, jorgovan,
- kaftan, kajgana, kalup, karavan, kaur, kavga, kavgadžija, kazan, kesa, kumbara,
- lagum, lala, lenger, leš, limun, lola,
- mana, maja, mehana, minđuša, merdevine, meze, mintan, murdara, muštuluk,
- nafta, nar, narandža, nargila, nišan, nišandžija, naut,
- pajtaš, pamuk, pamuklija, pandža, papuča, para (novac), paralija, parče, patlidžan, pazar, pelivan, pejgamber, pekmez, pendžer, perčin, peškir, pihtije, pilav, piljar, pirinač,
- rende, rusvaj,
- samurovina, saraj, serdar, sindžir, sirće, spahija, spanać,
- šah, šalvare, sećer, šegrt, šenlučenje, šimšir, šira, škembe,
- tambura, tane, taraba, tarana, tava, taze, terazije, testera, testija, tezga, timar, tov, tulipan, turšija,
- višnja,
- zuluf, surla
(The list was provided by the Iranian institute in Belgrade.)

I'll most likely not learn French. It just sounds awful. Almost as bad as Spanish or Italian. The only Romance language I do like and plan to learn is Portuguese. But that will have to wait until I finish with Mandarin. Out of the European languages I find Scandinavian languages to be the most beautiful, as well as Celtic languages, particularly Welsh. Balkan languages are just as awful as the Romance ones, Greek for instance gives me chills and I just have to turn away and shut my ears when I hear it.

I responded to you but i was talking in general for other forum readers too, about the proposed role of Balkan states, people by the eurocrats in Brussels.

What role the Balkan states will have in the EU is in proportion of what they are optimal for.

[Vangelovski]

EU Accession Process and Name Negotiations

The EU accession process follows a series of formal steps, from a pre-accession agreement to the ratification of the final accession treaty. These steps are primarily presided over by the European Commission, but the actual negotiations are conducted between the Union's Member States and the candidate country.

Before a country applies for membership it usually signs an association agreement to help prepare the country for candidacy and eventual membership. Most countries do not meet the criteria to even begin negotiations before they apply, so they need many years to prepare for the process. An association agreement helps prepare for this.

In the case of the Western Balkans, a special process, the Stabilisation and Association Process exists to deal with the special circumstances there.

When a country formally applies for membership, the Council asks the Commission to prepare an opinion on the country's readiness to begin negotiations. The Council can then either accept or reject the Commission's opinion (The Council has only once rejected the Commission's opinion when the latter advised against opening negotiations with Greece). This is what Macedonia needs to change its name for – to begin the negotiation process.

If the Council agrees to open negotiations the screening process then begins. The Commission and candidate country examine its laws and those of the EU and determine what differences exist. The Council then recommends opening negotiations on "chapters" of law that it feels there is sufficient common ground to have constructive negotiations. Greece will have literally hundreds of opportunities to demand more capitulations from Macedonia during these negotiations.

Negotiations are typically a matter of the candidate country convincing the EU that its laws and administrative capacity are sufficient to execute European law, which can be implemented as seen fit by the member states. Often this will involve time-lines before the Acquis Communautaire (European regulations, directives & standards) has to be fully implemented.

A chapter is said to be closed when both sides have agreed it has been implemented sufficiently, however it can still be re-opened if the Commission feels that the candidate has fallen out of compliance. Again, Greece will have literally hundreds of opportunities to demand more capitulations from Macedonia during these negotiations.

To assess progress achieved by countries in preparing for accession to the European Union, the European Commission submits regular reports (yearly) to the European Council. These serve as a basis for the Council to make decisions on negotiations or their extension to other candidates.

Once the negotiations are complete a treaty of accession will be signed, which must then be ratified by all of the member states of the Union, as well as the institutions of the Union, and the candidate country. Once this has been completed it will join the Union on the date specified in the treaty. Greece can demand one final capitulation from Macedonia before it actually joins the EU here.

The entire process, from application for membership to membership has typically taken about a decade, although some countries, notably Sweden, Finland, and Austria have been faster, taking only a few years. The process from application for association agreement through accession has taken far longer, as much as several decades (Turkey for example first applied for association in the 1950s and has yet to conclude accession negotiations).

[George S.]

With the interference of greece in the accession & macedonia satisfying all the other eu requirements.How is it that macedonia can't enter the eu under the un temporary name of fyrom.Even greece recognizes that name & doesn't have a problem with it.At least macedonia should have been able to enter under the name of dfyrom & not under ROM,Given the way macedonia is treated personnally i don't want them to be in a bs org as the eu.
Does that mean that greece has a problem with the name fyrum???
I heard recently that what milosevski announced that the deciding process for macedonia will be different in that there would be a number of states i think 5 helping & aiding the applicant country.I'm not sure how greece would fit into this whether it could still interfere.

[Voltron]

It is extremely difficult to veto a chapter once negotiations begin. Once the ball is moving you cant stop it. That is why the Greek govt wants a solution now.
So the threat of blocking a chapter on any given sunday is unfounded.

Only case where chapters have been vetoed is in Cyprus, but Cyprus has UN resolutions supporting their veto.
And even with UN resolutions against Turkey, Cyprus still has a hell of a time to shake off the Turks.
Without the UN resolutions it would of been a lost cause from the very beginning.

[George S.]

How is it difficult to veto in the case of macedonia if you are greece.The greek govt is saying that it wan'ts a solution now is to push macedonia into a corner with the name.The name is central to the issue.As long as macedonia does not capitulate on the name they will be vetoed no matter where they are in the talks.That's the power of veto.Greece has veto rights even if a majority or all of the member nations say to greece not to interfeere in macedonia's accession.Greece has the right of veto.Vet is a powerfull tool & greece knows it.You know what stupid reason greece is going to use in the interim accord case that it wasn't greece who vetoed rom it was other member states.
I know what the solution is take away greeces veto as it's a hinderance & just a pretext on it's name.Should be told to respect it's neighbour or expelled from the eu.They greece should live with their neighbour in harmony.

[Vangelovski]

It is extremely difficult to veto a chapter once negotiations begin. Once the ball is moving you cant stop it. That is why the Greek govt wants a solution now.
So the threat of blocking a chapter on any given sunday is unfounded.

Only case where chapters have been vetoed is in Cyprus, but Cyprus has UN resolutions supporting their veto.
And even with UN resolutions against Turkey, Cyprus still has a hell of a time to shake off the Turks.
Without the UN resolutions it would of been a lost cause from the very beginning.

What do UN resolutions have to do with EU accession negotiations?

Why is blocking a chapter "unfounded", particularly when it has already happened:

That a EU member has blocked the accession of a EU candidate country is nothing neither new nor particularly special. For some time Italy blocked Slovenian accession because of Slovenian real estate ownership legislation. Austria’s 1995 accession was also slowed by the vetoes of a number of countries on account of Austria’s laws setting limits on truck traffic.

http://www.seebusiness.eu/articles/s...-due-to-borde/

Slovenia has blocked Croatia's negotiations with the EU since December over a border row dating back to 1991, when both countries proclaimed independence from the former Yugoslavia. Ljubljana has demanded guarantees on access to its territorial waters and has refused to open any new chapter out of the 35 that make up Croatia's membership bid.

http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/slovenia-croatia.et

Maybe you were just stating your uninformed opinion - it seems popular these days.

[Voltron]

Its extremely difficult to veto once it has started. Even now its difficult, if it wasnt for Gruevski's gaffes he would have us in an extremely difficult situation.

The renaming of Airports, Roads, Swastika's, etc and now with the Statue releases pressure from Greece to compromise. If none of those would of happened, Macedonia would be in the EU today. I understand you have a full plate with the Albanians and that those actions are to somewhat placate the Macedonians over there but at the same time its not getting any sympathy from the outside and just making things more difficult.

[Vangelovski]

Its extremely difficult to veto once it has started. Even now its difficult, if it wasnt for Gruevski's gaffes he would have us in an extremely difficult situation.

The renaming of Airports, Roads, Swastika's, etc and now with the Statue releases pressure from Greece to compromise. If none of those would of happened, Macedonia would be in the EU today. I understand you have a full plate with the Albanians and that those actions are to somewhat placate the Macedonians over there but at the same time its not getting any sympathy from the outside and just making things more difficult.

Did you even read the examples I provided above? Other than your 'gut feeling', do you have anything of substance to contribute?