"Prior to 1865, Vlachs everywhere in the Peloponnese"

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • tchaiku
    Member
    • Nov 2016
    • 786

    Originally posted by Carlin View Post
    Would you be able to provide the source/author, or in which work this was found?

    Comment

    • Carlin
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2011
      • 3332

      Thanks.

      1688 report regarding Vlachs in Patras region, northern Peloponnese (Vlach inhabitants of villages Lopes, Komi, Gierpesi, Mouriki).

      Comment

      • Carlin
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2011
        • 3332

        Why and when did village names change?

        Γιατί και πότε άλλαξαν τα ονόματα των χωριών;

        Σύμφωνα με τους περισσότερους ιστορικούς μας το τέλος του Ελληνισμού, το πότε δηλαδή τελείωσε ιστορικά ένας λαός που σημάδεψε με την παρουσία του την πορεία της ανθρωπότητας τοποθετείται στο 529μ.Χ. όταν ο Ιουστινιανός έκλεισε και τυπικά την τελευταία φιλοσοφική σχολή της Αθήνας, άποψη που υιοθέτησε και ο Κοραής. Αργότερα η έρευνα άρχισε να αλλάζει αυτή

        Comment

        • tchaiku
          Member
          • Nov 2016
          • 786

          Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
          This isn't so. The full text (which is quite short) can be found here. Many references to Greeks, separate ones to Maniotes and Tzakonians. I can't see any Vlachs here either.

          http://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo2/A5...;view=fulltext
          There are some documents referring to Vlachs in Thessaly and Epirus, even in 19th century. I can't find anything about Peloponnese, there might have been some unrecognized Vlachs but if they formed the absolute majority how come there is nearly nothing written about them?

          Comment

          • tchaiku
            Member
            • Nov 2016
            • 786

            Richard Chandler - 1776 - Travels in Greece

            He passed the top of a rocky hill, the way bad, to Vlachi a village of Albanians, where he observed some antient walls, and caves underground. On a summit was a little tower, from which Thebes might be seen.
            Last edited by tchaiku; 05-07-2017, 08:50 AM.

            Comment

            • Amphipolis
              Banned
              • Aug 2014
              • 1328

              Originally posted by Carlin View Post
              Thanks.

              1688 report regarding Vlachs in Patras region, northern Peloponnese (Vlach inhabitants of villages Lopes, Komi, Gierpesi, Mouriki).
              Actually the document calls these newcomers "Albanian Vlachs", then "prementioned Albanians" and then again "Albanian Vlachs".

              Comment

              • Carlin
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2011
                • 3332

                Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
                Actually the document calls these newcomers "Albanian Vlachs", then "prementioned Albanians" and then again "Albanian Vlachs".
                Yes. The parts of the text that I highlighted, and as you explained, clearly state that these Vlachs are Albanian Vlachs.

                Comment

                • Carlin
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2011
                  • 3332

                  I'd like to share the following quote, in full.

                  Mémoires de la Société Ethnologique, 1841 - Page 99:

                  "Des Valaques se sont établis sur les montagnes de l'Arcadie, et leur langue, mêlée de grec moderne, est en usage dans une partie de la population. Les bergers de ces montagnes sont meme designes par le nom de ce peuple, en sorte qu'on a pu croire, et l'on croit en effet qu'ils ne descendent pas des anciens Arcadiens, mais des Valaques. Vous pensez bien que je ne pouvais admettre cette opinion. M. de Stackelberg a reconnu qu'on trouvait parmi eux beaucoup de figures semblables a celles des veritables Grecs; et M. de Brondsted m'a assure qu'il avait vu les belles formes du type grec pour le moins aussi souvent chez les bergers d'Arcadie que chez les Mainotes, qui representent les anciens Lacedemoniens."

                  Translation:

                  "Vlachs have settled on the mountains of Arcadia, and their language, mingled with modern Greek, is in use in a part of the population. The shepherds of these mountains are even designated by the name of this people, so that one may believe, and it is believed that they do not descend from the ancient Arcadians, but from the Vlachs. You do not think I could accept that opinion. M. de Stackelberg has admitted that many of them were found to be similar to those of the true Greeks; And M. de Brondsted assured me that he had seen the beautiful forms of the Greek type at least as often with the shepherds of Arcadia as with the Mainotes, who represent the ancient Lacedemonians."
                  Last edited by Carlin; 05-08-2017, 09:12 PM.

                  Comment

                  • tchaiku
                    Member
                    • Nov 2016
                    • 786

                    The fact that there is so little written about Vlachs in Peloponnese seems so obscure to me. What happened to Lower Walachia in Achaea?

                    Comment

                    • Carlin
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2011
                      • 3332

                      Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
                      The fact that there is so little written about Vlachs in Peloponnese seems so obscure to me. What happened to Lower Walachia in Achaea?
                      It fell out of use (like so many other names, terms or appellations throughout history).

                      The following comes from Hê herôis tês hellênikês espanastaseôs: êtoi skênai en Helladi (1821-1828), By Stéfanos Th Xénos, Chatzigeorgíou-Chasióti. On page 417, it is stated that the Vlachs came to Greece (Ελλάδα) in the 10th century.

                      Top of Page 417: "...οι Βλάχοι οι ελθόντες τον δέκατον αιώνα εις την Ελλάδα."

                      URL:

                      Comment

                      • Carlin
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2011
                        • 3332

                        Who were the Skythians (or even Skythi-Slavs) who settled in Greece and throughout the Peloponnese? Were these term(s) used exclusively for real Slavs? Let's take a look.


                        Comment

                        • Carlin
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2011
                          • 3332




                          The Demographic Structure of Λιοντάρι or Karytaina according to the Ottomans

                          "The Christians were Romioi, but also Arvanites and Vlachs." There were also some Muslims and Jews.

                          (Who were the Romioi though?)

                          We see that the area called Λιοντάρι in the first records, in the time of Selim I (1512-1520), is called Karytaina in the records kept in the Ottoman Archives in Constantinople. These records no longer have ethnic identities for farmers as before. For the Christians, the term 'gebran' is used and for Muslim the term 'Müslim'. However, from time to time we see as in the first records terms such as 'an cemaat-i eflagan' for the Vlachs, 'Çingenegan' for the Gypsies and 'Yahudiyan' for the Jews.
                          Last edited by Carlin; 05-13-2017, 04:42 PM.

                          Comment

                          • Carlin
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2011
                            • 3332

                            Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
                            There are some documents referring to Vlachs in Thessaly and Epirus, even in 19th century. I can't find anything about Peloponnese, there might have been some unrecognized Vlachs but if they formed the absolute majority how come there is nearly nothing written about them?
                            I am quite open to revise and update my own 'beliefs' and 'misconceptions' regarding this or any other historical topic.

                            It would be great if you can continue to provide additional testimonies regarding the presence of Albanians in the Peloponnese.

                            Comment

                            • Carlin
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2011
                              • 3332

                              List of the most important captains of the Peloponnese -1821
                              Ακολουθεί ο κατάλογος με τα ονοματεπώνυμα των σημαντικότερων οπλαρχηγών (καπετανέων) των επαρχιών της Πελοποννήσου κατά την Επανάσταση τ...


                              1) A special reference is made by Fotakos to the clergymen who formed and led military bodies in the battles, as well as to the "Vlachs" ("vlachopoimenes") nomadic Roumeliotes, who lived for generations in Morea and contributed militarily to the battles and financially offering animals from their flocks.

                              2) Vlachopoimenes (nomadic Roumeliotes in Morea)

                              1. Βασίλειος Μπούτος, Βίλια Δερβενοχωριών
                              2. Μακρυγιάννης, από βουνό Σαϊτά
                              3. Γιάννης Μπακογιάννης, Γαστούνη-Ξερόκαμπος Καλαβρύτων
                              4. Κώστας Λάβδας και Γεώργ. Λάβδας
                              5. γενεά Κουτουλαίων, Μήτρος, Δήμος και Κωνσταντής
                              6. Κώστας Τσόλης, ή Ράπτης
                              7. αδελφοί Καλπαίνη, Χρήστος και Κώστας
                              8. Δημήτριος Σαρανταυγάς, από βουνό Σαϊτά
                              9. Παπουτσήδες, Βασίλειος και γενεά, από βουνό Κανδήλας
                              10. γενεά Καλυβαίων, από βουνό Γκιόζα
                              11. γενεά Φραγκογανναίων, υπό τον Κωνσταντούλα Φραγκογιάννη, από βουνό Γκιόζα
                              12. γενεά Κορδυλαίων, Γιάννης και Κυριαζής, από βουνό Ζήριας
                              13. γενεά Χαναίων, υπό τον Θανάση Χανιά, από βουνό Ζήριας
                              14. Θανάσης Λύγκας, από Μυστρά
                              15. Γεώργιος Κοτσαλής, από Ξερόκαμπο Καλαβρύτων
                              16. Ραφτομήτρος, από Ξερόκαμπο Καλαβρύτων
                              17. Χρήστος Καψής, από Ξερόκαμπο Καλαβρύτων
                              18. Μαμαλαίοι

                              The map also indicates the locations of Arvanite-speakers (in red and underlined), as well as of Muslim Bardouniotes (who were Albanian-speaking Muslims, in green and underlined).
                              Last edited by Carlin; 05-13-2017, 12:26 PM.

                              Comment

                              • Carlin
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2011
                                • 3332

                                Slavs and Vlachs in Arcadia

                                URL:


                                "In the 6th part (pp. 173-256), there are plenty of extraordinary works: the history of the Peloponnese (Κώστα Μ. Σταμάτη), .... , the Slavs and Vlachs in Arcadia (Βασ. Χαραλαμπόπουλου), on the descent of Arvanites to the Peloponnese (Χρ. Γ. Ρώμα) ..."

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X