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-   -   Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1556)

indigen 09-17-2010 03:15 AM

[QUOTE=OziMak;70993]It is a BIG IF as to the accuracy of the claims made in the news article posted by DedoAleko but they do lead us to an interesting question that I posed in Post011.

[COLOR="Red"][B]Julie[/B] please note the claims made in the article are for a name with some prefix or suffix which is to be used ONLY in bilateral relations with Greece and that Republic of Macedonia will be used by EVERYONE else in the world.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Purple"]Given that RoM will be established as our country name and identity as Macedonians is if this were put to a referendum an opportunity too good to pass up.[/COLOR]

I realise there are more questions that need to be answered to clarify the position or more accurately to identify them as potential pitfalls.

I also note that the Egej Macedonians may be the only ones adversely effected by such a decision but probably for only a period of time and not forever.

I put it to the forum in Post011 that this might be a viable option.

To clarify my reasoning if we list what is important to us as Macedonians and then prioritise these items I think the preservation of our name and identity hit the top of the list. This dual formula idea seems to do just what we want conclusively on a world stage yet albeit with one caveat ie in dealing with Greece and how the Egej Macedonians will be referred to. Do we grab the most important part and work towards to rest or do we holdout for more and risk everything. I am not only referring to the name and identity but the assistance Macedonia has been receiving to date.[/QUOTE]

What a (NON (and anti) MACEDONIAN) MORON you are!!!

fyrOM 09-17-2010 04:03 AM

I suppose you think that when RoM is recognised all the Greeks will just pack up and leave Egej and leave all the infrastructure businesses factories and homes to you.hahaha

indigen 09-17-2010 04:05 AM

[QUOTE=OziMak;70983][B]Indigen[/B] I am honestly glad to see that Macedonian suspicion is alive and well as we have much to be suspicious about as anyone with even a basic understanding of our history knows how Macedonians have been screwed over by not only external forces pretending to want to help Macedonia but also by many Macedonian traitors so I do not feel bad about your post.[/quote]
Blah blah blah...now pull the other one!

[QUOTE]Firstly I do not have Cyrillic characters on my computer so even if I was bothered to translate the text I could not type it out in Cyrillic characters but also I am not that fluent in Macedonian and my translation would appear simple at best and possibly not that accurate. Rather than having a go at translating the text I used Google translate.[/QUOTE]
I don't know what OS you are using but MSoft Windows XP/Vista/Win7 (English version) all have native support for Cyrillic fonts and it is only needed to add a keyboard selection in order to use and switch between various languages. Thus I don't buy your BS about lack of "Cyrillic fonts" and you can try and pull the wool over the eyes of some other ignorant fool.

[QUOTE]In a different thread where I had used Google translate from Macedonian to English the Google program made an error and was correctly recognised by a member of the MTO as not being a correct translation so in this instance I was only making it public that the Macedonian text is from Google translate and that one should be careful that Google has translated it correctly. I am only trying to be upfront and transparent to avoid any unintentional misunderstandings.[/QUOTE]Google is a waste of time and can lead to MISINFORMATION if not checked for basic errors. IMO, it also shows that you are relying on Google for your information and thus you are poorly informed as a result.

[QUOTE]As to you post
[QUOTE]
You will not convince me that you are from Australia or that you are even of Macedonian (ethnic) ancestry as long as you are hiding your IP address (not that I can see it but I have read this as being the case from Admin posts). If I was the Admin, I would ban posters hiding their IP address![/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Red"][B]I do not even know how to hide my IP address other than what I have read on the internet that some people use proxy servers to re rout their connection and so remain anonymous.[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR="Purple"][B]I do not use a proxy server and can only think that if you cannot see my IP address it is because I have the security program on my computer set to high and may be preventing my IP address being displayed. [/B][/COLOR][COLOR="Red"][B] I have the security settings set to high as I have had virus problems in the past resulting in a lot of wasted time reformatting my computer and reinstalling all my software so I am careful about viruses and not particularly making a conscious decision to hide my IP address if indeed this is the case.[/B][/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Now this IS PURE BULLSHIT LYING on your part!!!

[COLOR="Red"][B]The following will show that you know that we know you are hiding your IP address and that you do it deliberately:
[/B][/COLOR]
[QUOTE][SIZE="4"][B]06-24-2010
Risto the Great
Administrator

[COLOR="Navy"][B]"OziMak, no big deal re the 2 threads....
I am pretty confident (notwithstanding your kangaroo fetish) you are not an Australian.." [/B][/COLOR]

06-25-2010
Risto the Great
Administrator

[COLOR="Purple"][B]"...No worries OziMak, I don't hide my IP address by the way ... just for something different..."[/B][/COLOR]

Soldier of Macedon
08-06-2010,
[COLOR="Navy"]OziMak, can you speak Macedonian? Are you really from Australia?[/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]OziMak
08-10-2010
Being from Australia.
Speaking English or using the local colloquialism or referring to local places only shows a familiarity with these things. Eg movie stars who have come to Australia for a brief stint speak English and for fun have learned an aussie word or three and have even tried their hand at speaking with an aussie accent and knowing a few local sites only shows some familiarity.[/QUOTE]
With lots of ONLINE (plus published) literature on the above subject/s, it is not that difficult to try to pass oneself as an "OziMak" but you just don't appear as natural. Talking about having watched the "Today Show" on channel 9 (or any other TV show) does NOT really impress either as all this is available online to anyone with decent Broadband access.

[QUOTE][COLOR="Red"][B]An IP address would be more confirmation of my physical location but secure server services can rout my IP to be from anywhere.[/B][/COLOR][/QUOTE]
HERE WE HAVE THE PROOF THAT YOU KNOW WHAT THE GAME IS ABOUT AND THAT YOU ARE LYING!!! I would like to know what this "secure server service" is that you have on a personal computer that would hide your IP address!!! It certainly is NOT obtainable via "high security" settings on your browser!
[QUOTE]
Sadly it is difficult to be certain of a persons location or background from behind a computer screen. Yes we have all heard the police can do it somehow but I don’t know how.[/QUOTE]
No it is not! IP addresses are generally visible and can show who is your ISP provider and their location address. Thus if you are from Australia, your ISP would be located there too!

WHY DON'T YOU SHOW (to ADMIN) YOUR IP ADDRESS IF YOU ARE GENUINE?

[QUOTE]So I don’t know anyway of proving I am Macedonian nor from Australia short of providing verifiable details which would identify me. I understand this is not a requirement of this site and nor would I want to.[/QUOTE]
I described a VERY SIMPLE METHOD in the post above - go to an INTERNET CAFE (in your local "Australian neighbourhood") and post from there a few times!!! Is that so difficult to do? :-)

Bratot 09-17-2010 04:14 AM

[QUOTE=indigen;71072]
I described a VERY SIMPLE METHOD in the post above - go to an INTERNET CAFE (in your local "Australian neighbourhood") and post from there a few times!!! Is that so difficult to do? :-)[/QUOTE]

.. or ask some Greek friend from Australia!


Hey, I'm only tryin to help :2:

indigen 09-17-2010 04:23 AM

[QUOTE=DedoAleko;70933][COLOR="Red"]Jas navistina ne gledam pricina zoshto na nekoj (Makedonec) bi go raduvala ovaa vest(?!)[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Purple"]Na sekoj Makedonec mu e kristalno jasno deka bilo kakvi otstapki ili menuvanje na imeto ke znaci ushte edna shajka poveke vo sandukot koj ni go podgotvuva "grcija" t.e francija, germanija, shpanija, anglija,avstralija,..[/COLOR].[/QUOTE]

Tochno taka ama bash ne mozham da razberam kako bezpotrebno se isprkjaat temi so vakvi naslovi. Jas lichno ne gledam deka ima nekakva korist (i naprotiv mislam deka e shtetno!) da Makedoncite postojano se zanimavaat so vakvi temi!

So pochit,
I.

indigen 09-17-2010 04:29 AM

[QUOTE=Bratot;71075].. or ask some Greek friend from Australia!
Hey, I'm only tryin to help :2:[/QUOTE]

I am aware of that B. but I think we have a solo artist here. :-)

If it is an organised connection, they could play havoc on any given forum!

fyrOM 09-17-2010 07:14 AM

[B]Indigen[/B]
Wow…you really are making too much of this.

[B]Cyrillic characters[/B]
Probably you are right that Vista has the Cyrillic characters. Why would I want to use them if my keyboard is roman charters. To make it harder for myself with some overlay which wont fit my laptop properly or use those stick-on labels. Is it really worth my while just so I can write in Cyrillic which I am heaps slower in reading and writing. Unlike some I have no formal education in Macedonian and just out of my own interest I taught myself from a book so that I am not totally ignorant even though I have no other practical use for it.

[B]Google translate[/B]
I do not use the Google translate you can find on their web site. I have a Google translate button on the toolbar which when clicked will auto detect the language on screen and translate it as well as follow from one link to another and automatically translate every page I log to. I used to practice my Macedonian reading skills by reading Macedonian online newspapers but since discovering this toolbar I have become slack as I read much faster in English and don’t want to spend ages reading just one article. Albeit as mentioned in my previous post which you are quoting an MTO member picked up that Google translate does occasionally makes errors.

[B]Secure server services[/B]
[I]HERE WE HAVE THE PROOF THAT YOU KNOW WHAT THE GAME IS ABOUT AND THAT YOU ARE LYING!!! I would like to know what this "secure server service" is that you have on a personal computer that would hide your IP address!!! It certainly is NOT obtainable via "high security" settings on your browser![/I]

You must have felt really chuffed when you wrote this.

From what I have read on the internet secure server services are just as the word implies a service you subscribe to with an annual fee. You then logon to their server so you IP is known to them but then you surf the net from their server so your IP points to them and not you. As there server could be in a different country you could appear to be logged onto the net from that country instead of where you really are. As mentioned they are a subscription service and seriously not worth the money just to fool you. It is not some program running on my computer or browser settings. I think there are programs that can detect IP addresses logging to your server. I don’t know if the admits of MTO are doing this. You will need to ask them. I do know I am armed to the back teeth so to speak of firewall and antiviral software ie not just one because as mention I had viral problems in the past and it cost me a lot of time and some lost data which is probably more valuable. Like I said if the admins cannot see my IP then I can only guess that it is the firewall and antiviral software. If not I don’t know why they cant and really I cannot be bothered to prove it to anyone.

[B]Going to an internet café[/B]
Are you serious. You are insane if you think I am going to leave a perfectly good computer at home with an internet connection that I am paying for where I can be perfectly comfortable and make myself a decent Turkish style coffee so that I can drive to an internet café wasting petrol and paying 4 or 5 dollars an hour to sit in an uncomfortable chair with no decent coffee just so you can be satisfied I am from Australia.hahahahahahahahaha

[B]Quotes from admits and others.[/B]
You really have been creating a dossier on me haven’t you. To smart by half Indigen. Do you realise this is the second time I have said this to you just tonight. Second one in a different thread. If you are going to research something then do it properly or shut up you idiot. Did you look at what preceded and followed those quotes or do you just take things out of context and pass judgement. You are an idiot.

From memory the first quote from RTG relates to his opinion that Australian Macedonians think the same way and my differing opinion was strange to him and he had a mini dig that I was not behaving like other Australian Macedonians. Hardly proof at all of anything other than just for a wild thought I don’t have exactly the same thoughts as other Macedonians from Australia.

In a similar line of though SoM was showing his displeasure at my preceding post where I was commenting on Gruevskis statement that he was aware of the add campaign by the diaspora to stop all name negotiations and that he was going to ignore the diasporas’ demands to which I said Oh well so much for the add campaign. Is it really so hard to accept that NOT every Macedonian in Australia thinks exactly the same.

Now that we have wasted enough space on not proving anything one way or another can we get back to the topic.

fyrOM 09-17-2010 07:25 AM

You know the funny think is if I just copied and pasted the original English text you probably would not have said anything but because I bothered to make a Macedonian translation via Google you jump at me. Such a small thing as using Google translate which everyone does to post in the English forums does not warrant the degree of the response it receive. What it does say is a precondition like a loaded spring just waiting for the slightest reason to go off. What was the reason for that precondition is the mystery. Any idea.

fyrOM 09-18-2010 12:51 AM

Abe Bratot I Indigen kako da ne se zafrkava cojek so vas koka olku si go barate.

Ke me nateras da se naucam grcki pa da ti kazam kako se zboruva po nase. Samo za zal ke me nateras da se naviknuvam da piam grcko kafe pribidejki bez toa ne se uci grcki pravilno. Tolku sum lubomoren za mojeto Tursko kafe ke treba da napravam tro chiting.hahaha

porano mojte rodnini vo makedonia mi se smeje za vakvi ozimak sborovi ama kako sto pocna rabotava jas izpadnav po naproxen od nim vo nasevo nov makedonski jazik. Za letoto od 2003 godina Kozmofon pocna da raboti za prv pat. Toa go citav vo vest vesnikot so napisanoto Od utre noviot mobilen operator kozmofon startuva da raboti… odma si rekov what the f. mene mi se smejat za fensot karot ama sega ovie startuvaat so vakvi zborovi. I toa e prikaznata kako jas stanav trendi vo zboruvajne makedonski.

Oh Bratot and Indigen how can someone not make fun of you when you are asking for it this much.

You are going to make me learn Greek so I can show you how to speak our language. But sadly you are going to force me to get used to drinking Greek coffee because without it you cannot learn Greek correctly. I am that jealous of my Turkish style coffee I am going to make a bit of cheating.

Earlier my relatives in Macedonia would laugh at me for these ozimak words but how things how things have begun I turned out more advanced than them in our new Macedonian language. In the summer of 2003 Kozmofon began to operate for the first time. I read this in the Vest newspaper with the text From tomorrow the new mobile operator Kozmofon STARTUVA to work… immediately I said to myself what the f. they laugh at me for fensot karot but now these people are beginning with these kinds of words. And that is the story how I became trendy in speaking Macedonian.

Ω Bratot και Indigen πως δεν μπορεί κάποιος να κάνει πλάκα με εσάς, όταν το ζητήσει αυτό το πολύ.

Θα έχετε την ευκαιρία να με κάνει να μάθουν ελληνικά ώστε να μπορώ να σας δείξει πώς να μιλήσουν τη γλώσσα μας. Αλλά, δυστυχώς, θα έχετε την ευκαιρία να με αναγκάσει να συνηθίσουν στο πόσιμο ελληνικό καφέ, επειδή χωρίς αυτό δεν μπορείς να μάθουν ελληνικά σωστά. Είμαι ότι ζήλευε τούρκικο καφέ στυλ μου εγώ είμαι πρόκειται να κάνει ένα κομμάτι της εξαπάτησης.

Προηγούμενα συγγενείς μου στη Μακεδονία θα γελούν μαζί μου για αυτές τις λέξεις ozimak αλλά το πώς τα πράγματα πως τα πράγματα έχουν αρχίσει να μου αποδείχθηκε πιο προχωρημένα από τους νέους σλαβομακεδονική γλώσσα μας. Το καλοκαίρι του 2003 Kozmofon άρχισε να λειτουργεί για πρώτη φορά. Διάβασα αυτό στην εφημερίδα Vest με το κείμενο Από αύριο η νέα εταιρεία κινητής τηλεφωνίας Kozmofon STARTUVA να εργαστούν αμέσως ... Είπα στον εαυτό μου τι στ. γελάνε μαζί μου για fensot karot αλλά τώρα αυτοί οι άνθρωποι αρχίζουν με αυτά τα είδη των λέξεων. Και αυτή είναι η ιστορία πώς έγινα trendy στην ομιλία Σλαβομακεδονικά.

fyrOM 09-18-2010 01:00 AM

Izvini RTG me nateraa da go izpoganam sajtot so grcki sborovi but I think you can see the funny side of it.


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