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-   -   The Real Ethnic Composition of Modern Greece (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17)

Carlin 05-27-2017 05:28 PM

Χρήστος Νταβέλης (Christos Davelis)

[url]https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%A7%CF%81%CE%AE%CF%83%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%82_%CE%9D%CF%84%CE%B1%CE%B2%CE%AD%CE%BB%CE%B7%CF%82[/url]
[url]http://xantho.lis.upatras.gr/test2.php?art=11776[/url]

Christos Davelis was a notorious [U]HELLENIC[/U] robber of Attica and
Boeotia. He was born to a shepherd family of [U]ARVANITOVLACHS[/U].

Κατά παλαιότερη εκδοχή, γεννήθηκε στο Στείρι Βοιωτίας περί το 1832 από ποιμενική [B]οικογένεια αρβανιτόβλαχων[/B].

[I]HELLENE[/I] == ARVANITOVLACH

Carlin 05-27-2017 05:42 PM

One wonders what sort of [I]Greek colonists[/I] was medieval Thessaly (= Vlachia) sending out when, specifically [I][COLOR="Blue"]Epirus, Thessaly and Attico-Boeotia confirm the discontinuity between ancient and modern Greece.[/COLOR][/I]

Taken from:
Ο ΦΑΛΜΕΡΑΫΕΡ ΚΑΙ ΝΕΟΤΕΡΑ ΣΤΟΙΧΕΙΑ ΓΙΑ ΤΗΝ ΕΘΝΙΚΗ ΚΑΤΑΓΩΓΗ ΤΩΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΩΝ (ΗΠΕΙΡΟΣ, ΘΕΣΣΑΛΙΑ ΚΑΙ Η ΑΤΤΙΚΟΒΟΙΩΤΙΑ), by Φίλιππας Κυρίτσης

URL:
[url]http://www.academia.edu/8066812/%CE%9F_%CE%A6%CE%91%CE%9B%CE%9C%CE%95%CE%A1%CE%91%CE%AB%CE%95%CE%A1_%CE%9A%CE%91%CE%99_%CE%9D%CE%95%CE%9F%CE%A4%CE%95%CE%A1%CE%91_%CE%A3%CE%A4%CE%9F%CE%99%CE%A7%CE%95%CE%99%CE%91_%CE%93%CE%99%CE%91_%CE%A4%CE%97%CE%9D_%CE%95%CE%98%CE%9D%CE%99%CE%9A%CE%97_%CE%9A%CE%91%CE%A4%CE%91%CE%93%CE%A9%CE%93%CE%97_%CE%A4%CE%A9%CE%9D_%CE%95%CE%9B%CE%9B%CE%97%CE%9D%CE%A9%CE%9D_%CE%97%CE%A0%CE%95%CE%99%CE%A1%CE%9F%CE%A3_%CE%98%CE%95%CE%A3%CE%A3%CE%91%CE%9B%CE%99%CE%91_%CE%9A%CE%91%CE%99_%CE%97_%CE%91%CE%A4%CE%A4%CE%99%CE%9A%CE%9F%CE%92%CE%9F%CE%99%CE%A9%CE%A4%CE%99%CE%91_[/url]

Carlin 05-27-2017 09:13 PM

Paul Lovell Hooper, "Forced Population Transfers in Early Ottoman Imperial Strategy: a Comparative Approach" (Senior thesis, Princeton University, 2003).

Page 25:

[COLOR="Blue"]The 16th century was host to a number of transfers undertaken as the Ottomans attempted to put down a series of insurgencies by the empire's disaffected tribalist [B]Turkmen population[/B]. Responding to the pro-pastoralist [I]shi'i[/I] propaganda of the new Ottoman rival to the east, the Safavids, these tribesmen - called [I]kizilbas[/I], or red-heads - were subject to harsh crack-downs starting in the reign of Bayezit II.

[COLOR="Blue"]In response to growing Safavid support within the empire, in 1502 the sultan ordered the deportation of [I]kizilbas[/I] from Teke, Hamid, and elsewhere in Anatolia [U][B]to Coron and Modon in the Morea[/B][/U].[/COLOR][/COLOR]


Page 74:

[COLOR="Blue"]In the colonization of Cyprus in the [B]1570s[/B], the [I]surgun[/I] project for which - thanks to Barkan's studies - we have the most complete documentation, [B]one out of every ten households of districts throughout Anatolia were to be set aside for immigration to the island[/B].[/COLOR]


Page 77/78:

[COLOR="Blue"]Mehmet II "sent Zaganos, Governor of Gallipoli and admiral of the entire fleet, to the islands with forty ships. When this man arrived there, he removed some peoples of Thasos and Samothrace and settled them likewise."[/COLOR]

tchaiku 05-28-2017 03:44 AM

Vlahos / Vlachos (Βλάχος) is the second most common surname of Greeks.

tchaiku 05-28-2017 03:57 AM

Apeltai = Akritai
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akritai[/url]

The name that Constantine VII used to call Tsakones.

I also find it odd that how come Maniots and Tsakonians despite of sharing the same geography, despite of being pagans and despite of being Greeks, differed themselves in language (dialect) and name, if Tsakonian applies to Laconians why weren't Maniots called the same way?

Carlin 05-28-2017 09:14 AM

[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/crr6cr6_zpswtpihmsq.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/crr6cr6_zpswtpihmsq.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Carlin 05-28-2017 09:55 AM

[QUOTE=tchaiku;169233]Apeltai = Akritai
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akritai[/url]

The name that Constantine VII used to call Tsakones.

I also find it odd that how come Maniots and Tsakonians despite of sharing the same geography, despite of being pagans and despite of being Greeks, differed themselves in language (dialect) and name, if Tsakonian applies to Laconians why weren't Maniots called the same way?[/QUOTE]

You are asking the right questions.

Did you know how the Tsakonians call some of their settlements and towns, in their own dialect?

Modern Greek: Leonidio
Tsakonian: [B]Aje Lidi[/B]

MG: Vaskina
Tsakonian: [B]Vastsina[/B]

MG: Melana
Tsakonian: [B]Meane[/B]

MG: Pragmateutis
Tsakonian: [B]Pragmatefta[/B]

MG: Sapounakaiika
Tsakonian: [B]Sapunatsi[/B]

MG: Tyros
Tsakonian: [B]Dire[/B]

MG: Agios Andreas
Tsakonian: [B]Jale[/B]

MG: Prastos
Tsakonian: [B]Praste[/B]

Amphipolis 05-29-2017 09:49 AM

[QUOTE=Carlin;169223]
[I]HELLENE[/I] == ARVANITOVLACH[/QUOTE]

I really can't understand when you're joking.

[QUOTE=tchaiku;169232]Vlahos / Vlachos (Βλάχος) is the second most common surname of Greeks.[/QUOTE]

No, it's not.

[QUOTE=tchaiku;169233]
I also find it odd that how come Maniots and Tsakonians despite of sharing the same geography, despite of being pagans and despite of being Greeks, differed themselves in language (dialect) and name, if Tsakonian applies to Laconians why weren't Maniots called the same way?[/QUOTE]

Check this:
[URL="http://historum.com/medieval-byzantine-history/81769-maniates-last-pagans-print.html"]http://historum.com/medieval-byzantine-history/81769-maniates-last-pagans-print.html[/URL]

tchaiku 05-29-2017 11:04 AM

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;169252]
No, it's not.[/QUOTE]

I was talking with an Arvanite who lives in Spetses, his ancestors came from Shkodra 600 years ago, so ... he was giving me information about Arvanite surnames in Greece I was looking for them and I randomly found out about that surname here:

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_common_surnames_in_Europe#Greece[/url]

[QUOTE]
Check this:
[URL="http://historum.com/medieval-byzantine-history/81769-maniates-last-pagans-print.html"]http://historum.com/medieval-byzantine-history/81769-maniates-last-pagans-print.html[/URL][/QUOTE]

Is this ANAX guy trying to argue that Tsakonian applied to Maniots too? Because he doesn't make much sense. Or that Maniots are not ancient Hellenes but Tsakonians are, and that ''older Romans'' quote by Constantine refers to Tsakonians (in the castle of Mani), not Maniots?

Carlin 05-29-2017 10:49 PM

[B][I]Check this:
[URL="http://historum.com/medieval-byzantine-history/81769-maniates-last-pagans-print.html"]http://historum.com/medieval-byzantine-history/81769-maniates-last-pagans-print.html[/URL][/B][/I]

That's a very creative and original interpretation of the passage in question.

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maniots[/url]

[COLOR="Blue"]"Be it known that the inhabitants of Castle Maina are not from the race of aforesaid Slavs (Melingoi and Ezeritai dwelling on the Taygetus) but from the older Romaioi (= Romans), who up to the present time are termed Hellenes by the local inhabitants on account of their being in olden times idolaters and worshippers of idols like the ancient Greeks, and who were baptized and became Christians in the reign of the glorious Basil. The place in which they live is waterless and inaccessible, but has olives from which they gain some consolation."[/COLOR]

Conclusion/analysis seems to be self-evident:

- We are told that the inhabitants of Castle Maina are of the [B]Roman[/B] race. We are told they are [U]not[/U] from the race of Slavs but from the [U]older Romans[/U]. They are also not of Hellenic race or descent. If they were, Constantine VII would have written [I]"... are not from the race of aforesaid Slavs ... but from the older [U]Hellenes[/U]"[/I] - which is clearly not the case. As a result, these [I]older Romaioi[/I] were most likely speaking a Latin-based dialect or language at this time.

- The narrative continues stating that these [B]older Romans[/B] are [I]termed Hellenes[/I] up to the present time, [U]by the local inhabitants[/U] on account of their being in olden times idolaters and worshippers of idols like the ancient Greeks. We clearly don't know who these [I]local inhabitants[/I] are/were, and can only speculate as to who they might have been. The most important point here is that these [B][I]older Romans[/I][/B] are termed [I][B]Hellenes[/B][/I] on account of their (formerly) being idolaters like the ancient Greeks - that is to say, [U]this term[/U] - applied to them by the locals (whoever they might be) [U]has clear religious value and meaning, not ethnic or racial.[/U]

(To continue, and to make use of ANAX's logic and reasoning, these [I]older Roman[/I] inhabitants of the castle of Maina [U]are not [B]locals[/B][/U] - because the [I][B]locals[/B][/I] themselves call them Hellenes on account of their former religion (= paganism), etc. We may then conclude that these older Romans are colonists or immigrants.)


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