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-   -   Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1556)

tchaiku 06-22-2018 06:34 PM

You guys are never happy.

Vangelovski 06-22-2018 06:39 PM

I ran a google search on "northern macedonians" this morning. 433 results already. "north macedonians" resulted in 3,210 hits. This is the natural consequence of changing the state name. We will lose our identity before this agreement is even ratified by greece. That is the nature of language and Macedonian stupidity.

Spirit 06-22-2018 07:17 PM

[QUOTE=tchaiku;174526]You guys are never happy.[/QUOTE]

How can I say this diplomatically.
As Vicsinad says itís insulting to us and yet you throw another insult to all the Macedonians on here. Fool, would you be happy with an attempted change of identity?
So diplomatically I say to you why donít you simply just Fuck Off and leave this forum

kompir 06-22-2018 07:30 PM

I am bemused at how a segment of the citizenry (both in MKD and the diaspora) think that one, the country will even be admitted into the EU and NATO and two, that membership will improve the nation economically and its standing in the European sphere.

An old saying is very much pertinent today:

"Yште ве лажат комyнистите"

vicsinad 06-22-2018 08:33 PM

Speaking of those who now recognize us as North Macedonians is US Congressman Dana Rohrabacher, in an official press release today. Mind you, he was the one who previously said that Macedonia was not a real country and that it should belong to Bulgaria.

Anywhere, if you want to bombard anyone's office, e-mail and phone-lines with your anger, feel free. Here's his press release:
[QUOTE]
At the end of the Cold War the Balkan country known as Yugoslavia, ruled by Communists, split into multiple entities, some of them, as we know, violently. One of the entities emerged as a new nation calling itself Macedonia. Happily, that country managed to steer clear of the awful ethnic warfare that enveloped much of the region in the 1990s. However, the name it chose for itself understandably aggravated its neighbor, Greece, one of whose provinces since ancient times was known as Macedonia.

To many of us, the matter seems trifling, a minor headache at best. But to the people of the region, it has been a vexatious problem of statecraft. It complicated commerce and diplomacy and needed to be resolved peaceably.

I heartily welcome this agreement and hope for a speedy ratification by legislative bodies in both countries. This is more evidence that the rising sentiment favoring national interests around the globe can be acknowledged comfortably and that disagreements can be resolved in a spirit of peace and cooperation without the intervention of globalist super-authorities. [B]I especially welcome the grace with which the newly designated people accept their identity as North Macedonians.[/B][/QUOTE]

[URL="https://rohrabacher.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/rohrabacher-lauds-resolution-clarifying-name-of-macedonia"]https://rohrabacher.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/rohrabacher-lauds-resolution-clarifying-name-of-macedonia[/URL]

Gocka 06-22-2018 08:37 PM

Hello my favorite Kangaroo lovers, its been a while.

Ah where to start.


First I dont believe that the Greeks ever intended for this "agreement" to pass. I think they intend for it to fail, and will make sure that they do something at some later point to make it fail.

Any change to our Name is a loss for us, but you are smoking something good if you think North Macedonia would be accepted by the Greek side/population. The Greeks have created a rabid dog of a nation that would never accept such a simple modification, regardless of whatever silly additional stipulations they add.

North Macedonia from the Greek perspective is a loss. It still implies that there are other parts to Macedonia, and does nothing to nullify our argument to a historical Macedonia.

Having said that, our cowardly leaders for lack of a better word, are being played like a fiddle as is usual for us. The Greeks know that this agreement will fall through. All that is important here is the precedent. Essential we have already lost. We were losing for 20 plus years simply by making it known to the world that our identity was negotiable. Now we have already set the precedent that not only is it negotiable but that we are willing to change our name, identity, and basically sign away our rights to our own history. This precedent regardless of the outcome of this circus, will never be forgotten, and will forever require explaining on our part.

I think the Greeks will string us along, getting us to renounce this and denounce that, change that, and we will do it. Then somehow they will make a demand that even we cant adhere to, and when everything collapses they will blame it on us. They already have everything they need from us, agreement or not.

They do not want us in the EU, that means free travel and contact between us, and the other Macedonians that they have manged to separate us from for centuries.

No one finds it peculiar that of all the outlandish name proposals, we landed on the one that honestly is probably the least offensive for us. Not that I support it, never in a million years, but I just don't believe that after 25 years that all it took was North Macedonia.

There is another angle here, and that is destabilizing Macedonia. Imagine the chaos after months of changes and "progress" only for the whole thing to fall through. This whole debacle will tear Macedonia apart between Europeans and Makendonci. Like I said Greece has its propaganda win already, having the state fall apart will just work in their favor even more. What do you think the Albanian reaction will be when EU "entry" is taken from them after being so close. What will be the reaction of the "Europeans" among us? Mean while the small cohort of true Macedonians will be enraged throughout the whole process.

Mark me words friends, the state will fall apart because of this. We are already looking at heated protests, police brutality, and Presidential impeachment, before anything has even happened.

Also our genius FYROMCI, forgot one important thing. Now that the Greeks drew blood, what stops Bulgaria from making similar demands? We could give in to every plate smashing demand, and still have Bulgaria veto us.

Finally Macedonians have to be brain dead to believe that Macedonia is EU material. Italy isn't EU material for crying out loud. Not to mention the EU will dissolve long before we ever met the requirements anyway. Every EU country has an EU skeptical party either in power, close to coming to power, or growing quickly in popularity. But like always we are always last to the party and don't even realize it.

No matter how you slice this, we lose and I argue that we already lost, and I'm not sure that there is a way back form this where we end up better off.

BTW the pictures of the bloodied woman from the protests are fake. The photos are from an Irish protest.

As I said to my good friend Victor, I am not a North Macedonian, if this happens, I will renounce my citizenship and never step foot in that shit hole again. From Goce Petreski I will become George Peterson and when people ask what I am, I will say I don't know.

Pelagonija 06-22-2018 10:05 PM

This independent mp wasnt even Skopje yet his vote was counted in the yes group, what the fark??

[url]https://fokus.mk/muhik-kako-mozhe-da-sum-glasal-za-dogovorot-koga-ne-bev-vo-parlamentot/[/url]

[url]https://kanal5.com.mk/articles/339291/ferid-muhikj-vo-samo-vistina[/url]

Carlin 06-22-2018 10:47 PM

Kotzias: "Vinozhito" are a group of friends, who according to the Agreement can no longer talk about a Macedonian minority

Коѕијас: ĄВиножитоď се група пријатели, кои според Договорот не смеат веќе да дискутираат за македонско малцинство (ВИДЕО)

URL:
[url]https://republika.mk/930640[/url]

maco2envy 06-22-2018 11:43 PM

[QUOTE=vicsinad;174530]Speaking of those who now recognize us as North Macedonians is US Congressman Dana Rohrabacher, in an official press release today. Mind you, he was the one who previously said that Macedonia was not a real country and that it should belong to Bulgaria.

Anywhere, if you want to bombard anyone's office, e-mail and phone-lines with your anger, feel free. Here's his press release:


[URL="https://rohrabacher.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/rohrabacher-lauds-resolution-clarifying-name-of-macedonia"]https://rohrabacher.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/rohrabacher-lauds-resolution-clarifying-name-of-macedonia[/URL][/QUOTE]

This fool is obviously lobbied by Greeks

Vangelovski 06-23-2018 02:53 AM

Gocka,

You make an excellent point in that Macedonia needs to ratify this agreement and make constitutional changes first, and then Greece needs to ratify it. Once the Greeks see how quickly and easily Macedonia capitulates there is nothing stopping them from not ratifying it in their parliament and then asking for more.


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