[QUOTE=Tomche Makedonche;171376]Its hard to deny that it would likely be seen as an enormous relief to the nation, as though a great weight has finally been lifted off their shoulders.

Unfortunately I feel that many RoMacedonians have finally found the ultimate scapegoat in Zaev, their Martyr in Zaev, I dare say they view Zaev as a Godsend for their abysmal predicament and you will be hard to find many who will actually move to stand against him, including politically in parliament[/QUOTE]And then the wait for the German river of gold begins. I can see Zaev pulling out promissory notes from a bag and throwing them into the crowds, "you get a pension, and you get a pension, we all get a pension".

[QUOTE]Seven in 10 Greeks against use of 'Macedonia' in name solution, poll shows

[url]https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g...-idUSKBN1F30M1[/url][/QUOTE]

Doesn't this just highlight Greek chauvinism? Especially being more prominent in the younger crowds within a financially crippled state. Seriously, you'd think this younger generation would be more engrossed in investing in themselves through education rather than following futile politics.

I don't know who looks more ridiculous in the dispute, whether it's us trying to give up everything to get into some international organisation or if it's the Greeks with their blatant chauvinism.

While the Greeks continue to be bailed out to the tune of $8.4 billion Euros by the European authorities, there is no reason for them but to show their chauvinism towards the name.

[QUOTE=Vangelovski;171377]I think Zaev will try for a composite name first, but ultimately I wouldn't be surprised if he agrees to a complete change. I don't see any real threat from a long-enslaved and compliant people. I can't think of anyone in Macedonia that actually gives a f*ck anymore. I'm quite convinced that they will be glad to "solve" the name issue. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Tomche Makedonche;171375]Its hard to deny that it would likely be seen as an enormous relief to the nation, as though a great weight has finally been lifted off their shoulders.

Unfortunately I feel that many RoMacedonians have finally found the ultimate scapegoat in Zaev, their Martyr in Zaev, I dare say they view Zaev as a Godsend for their abysmal predicament and you will be hard to find many who will actually move to stand against him, including politically in parliament[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Vangelovski;171377]And then the wait for the German river of gold begins. I can see Zaev pulling out promissory notes from a bag and throwing them into the crowds, "you get a pension, and you get a pension, we all get a pension".[/QUOTE]

[ATTACH]212[/ATTACH]

If this piece of graffiti is not the ultimate shared sentiment of the nation, I don't know what is - "My Nationality is Poor". It screams:

[SIZE="5"]Fuck Macedonia and Fuck all Macedonian patriots...Just show me the money & Long Live Mak[B]ebani[/B]ja!!![/SIZE]

[url]https://www.rferl.org/a/macedonia-name-dispute-greece-skopje-alexander/28979309.html[/url]

[B]In 'Macedonia' Name Dispute, Optimism In The Air [/B]

It will not happen tomorrow, but a cloud hanging over neighbors Greece and Macedonia for more than two decades might soon be lifted.

Delegations from the two states, headed by their respective negotiators, Adamantios Vassilakis and Vasko Naumovski, are due to meet with UN mediator Matthew Nimetz in New York on January 17 to resume talks over Macedonia's official name, frozen since 2014.

Greece has objected to Macedonia's use of that name -- also a region of northern Greece -- since the former Yugoslav republic's declaration of independence in 1991. Unlike some, Macedonia did not have to fight a war to secure its statehood; but it has been engaged in a diplomatic struggle to keep its name for 26 years.

As a constituent part of Yugoslavia, it had been known as the "Socialist Republic of Macedonia," but its bid to simply drop the Socialist designation and become the sovereign "Republic of Macedonia" was repeatedly thwarted by EU member Greece.

At the forthcoming meeting, Nimetz is expected once again to present the parties with a list of names that have been under discussion before, with only minor changes.

So no one is expected to pull a rabbit out of a hat.

But the meeting could be a major step in the right direction.

[U]'Positive Momentum'[/U]

Driving from Thessaloniki toward the Macedonian border, one will not come across any road signs for the state of Macedonia. There is a sign indicating an international border crossing, and the direction of the Macedonian capital, Skopje, is indicated.

Nimetz is nevertheless optimistic about resolving the dispute. He told Greek state television this week that there was "positive momentum" in both countries: "I think the people in both countries are maybe ready to hear some solutions that are consistent with national interests but also have some element of compromise that would resolve the problem."

So far Greece would only countenance referring to its neighbor by the acronym FYROM (Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia). The country was admitted to the United Nations under that name in 1993, and that designation is used by the EU among others. (Others, including the United States, China, and Russia, routinely use the name Republic of Macedonia in communications with Skopje.)

A compromise solution could involve substituting a new qualifier, such as "Upper," "Northern" or "New Macedonia."

But for many Greeks, even this might be unacceptable. According to a recent poll, more than two-thirds of Greeks are opposed to any mention of "Macedonia," and there are rallies planned in Athens and northern Greece in the weeks ahead.

Reportedly in order to avoid tensions, the Greek prime minister has called on the influential Orthodox Church to refrain from commenting on the Macedonian question.

[U]Clash Of Identities[/U]

In Macedonia itself, opinion is divided.

An informal poll conducted by RFE/RL's Balkan Service on January 11 on the streets of Skopje found that many people would like to see the issue resolved one way or another. Yet others are firmly against any concessions, convinced that Macedonia has the right to its own choice of name.

Behind the dispute over the name is a deeper clash of identities. Among other things, there is a tug-of-war over the figure of Alexander the Great -- claimed by Macedonians as an important part of their national identity. The Greeks, meanwhile, argue that their own ancient heritage is being hijacked by their Slavic-speaking neighbors.

"The hardest part of the bargain is that we have to renounce our mythology in order to allow Greek nationalism to incorporate the newly created Greek-Macedonian identity into Ancient Greek mythology," Denko Maleski a professor at the Skopje University Law School, told RFE/RL.

However, Maleski, who was Macedonia's first foreign minister following independence, is optimistic.

"A solution to the name issue is both possible [and desirable], as it would improve [Macedonia's] chances of getting NATO membership," Maleski added.

Indeed, the day before the New York meeting, NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg was due to visit Skopje in what was being seen as a clear show of support for Macedonia's Euro-Atlantic integration, including NATO membership.

Ismet Ramadani, head of the Macedonian Euro Atlantic Council and adviser to Macedonian Prime Minister Zoran Zaev, spoke of "a decisive week" ahead and a "historical moment."

But he also cautioned that optimism and good intentions alone were not enough, telling regional news agency IBNA that "there must be concrete results in reaching an acceptable compromises [sic] on the name dispute."

Having just emerged from a prolonged internal political crisis, the new Macedonian government may be keen to resolve a longstanding dispute with its neighbor -- particularly as it may smooth the way to EU and NATO membership.

[U]'Historic Chance'[/U]

Greece, too, has an interest in shoring up regional stability.

According to Macedonian Foreign Minister Nikola Dimitrov, both sides are obliged to seize the "historic chance" following a turbulent few months in the wider Balkan region.

"I think the public can be very happy that now someone is raising the name issue as it indicates that the country's stability has returned," said Skopje professor Toni Deskoski.

The focus on EU and NATO integration, and better relations among neighbors, appear to contrast with the policy of the previous Macedonian government. The government has shown a willingness to compromise, for instance by agreeing to become a NATO member as "FYROM" rather than Macedonia -- even if this is unpopular at home.

But political analyst Albert Musliu suggests that this flexibility could strengthen Macedonia's hand in future negotiations.

"We had to change the narrative while resolving the name issue, because we cannot box with Greece while negotiating, and I think that is exactly the strategy of the new government," Musliu said. "Let's not forget that Greece is a full member of NATO, and it's a voice we depend on for gaining membership in European institutions. I believe that the strategy now is improving and softening the relations with our neighbors, especially Greece, but it is for our partners to also help for Athens to understand Macedonia's position."

For most Macedonians, nomen est omen. But there appears to be a recognition on someone's part that short-term compromises on the name issue may benefit their country over the long term.

President Kiro Gligorov's son advocates for our identity to be "New Macedonians". LOMA sent him a response. Here Gligorov's article, then our response:

[URL="https://wiiw.ac.at/n-276.html"]https://wiiw.ac.at/n-276.html[/URL]

[QUOTE]Greece and Macedonia edge towards solution to name dispute

16 January 2018

If an agreement is reached, the Macedonian government is in a strong position to approve it. From the Greek side it could be more challenging.

By Vladimir Gligorov

An agreement between Greece and Macedonia on the latter’s name is apparently at hand. According to reports, the agreement between the two countries has three key elements:

Issue No. 1: The name of the state. Provisionally, and only in international institutions, the name is currently the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (or FYROM). Greece cannot accept just Macedonia, while Macedonians cannot accept no mention of Macedonia in the name. The new agreement appears to pave the way for a permanent name: New Macedonia, a solution potentially acceptable to both sides.
Issue No. 2: Citizenship. For Macedonia, citizens of the state will be 'Macedonian', whereas for Greece they will be 'New Macedonian'. Internationally, there may be a split between the multilateral institutions (using the Greek version) and bilateral relations (using either one).
Issue No. 3: National identity. For Macedonians it will be Macedonian (there are also Albanians and a number of minorities). For Greece it will be 'Slavo-Macedonian'. Greece can also call its citizens Macedonian, if they so desire. The latter is probably irrelevant because of the strong preference within the country to use only Greek as a nationality, although it is possible that some will refer to themselves as Greek Macedonian.

Macedonian perspective: positive

The key tenets of the agreement, or a variant thereof, seem reasonable. Politically, the Macedonian government will face little opposition to this agreement. [B][U]Macedonian identity, when it comes to the name, is not ethnic but regional[/U][/B] - somebody living in the region of Macedonia. The nationalists (VMRO party) a[B]ttempted to connect the identity to Alexander the Great and ancient Macedonians, which is unfounded and unreasonable (this is putting it mildly)[/B]. In that context, [B][U]New Macedonian is more accurate. [/U][/B]The identity is really based on the political history of the independence movement in that particular region and on that territory and on the Macedonian language. It is not an ethnic thing (or racial, which is what the Slavic characterisation implies).

Greek population may be more resistant

The Greek government will have more of a problem selling the agreement domestically. This is because of the detour that the Conservatives took after the end of the Simitis-Papandreou government. The latter was close to an agreement essentially indistinguishable from the one which is being discussed now. However, for domestic reasons, Greece’s then-Conservative government needed to revive nationalism (as did VMRO), and subsequently stepped back from the agreement.

As a result, Prime Minister Tsipras may face a hostile public reaction. The argument he is making is the same one employed previously by Papandreou: that the agreement provides Greece with a leadership position in the Balkans and thus strengthens its influence in the EU. And the latter, Greece needs badly.
[/QUOTE]


LOMA response:


[URL="https://www.leagueofmacedonians.org/letters-and-writings"]https://www.leagueofmacedonians.org/letters-and-writings[/URL]

[QUOTE]
January 16, 2018

Dear Mr. Vladimir Gligorov,

The League of Macedonian-Americans (LOMA) is disappointed with your inaccurate portrayal of Greece’s dispute with Macedonia’s name. While your commentary is short, it disseminates many misconceptions about the ethnic Macedonian identity, negates and belittles the Macedonian perspective on identity, and ignores the importance and relevance of internationally accepted principles and values enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations.

First, it was not VMRO-DPMNE nationalists who first began to connect the ethnic Macedonian identity to Alexander the Great and the ancient Macedonians. The following observations are just a few from 19th and 20th century authors (not affiliated with VMRO-DPMNE of the 21st century) who acknowledged that the Macedonians believed that they were related to the ancient Macedonians, regardless of whether you or others actually think this to be the case:

[SIZE="1"]We have many times heard from the Macedonists that they are not Bulgarians but Macedonians, descendants of the Ancient Macedonians.
-Petko Slaveykov, 1871

Our dear Macedonia, our dear homeland is calling: You, who are my faithful children; you, who like Aristotle and Alexander the Great, are my heirs; you, in whose veins Macedonian blood flows, do not leave me to die, help me. What a sad sight, real Macedonians, it would be if you were to witness my burial.
-Macedonian Provisional Government, March 23, 1881

Our fatherland Macedonia has her own history about her past, where one can see her might, glory, as well as her political subjugation under the rule of the then mighty Turkish Empire…Today, every Macedonian, when he mentions the name Aleksandar Makedonski, says: We once had King Alexander the Great. With those words he reminds oneself of the brightest period and glory of the Macedonian State. Aleksandar Makedonski stands before every Macedonian as national pride.
-Kosta Shahov, circa 1900

Macedonians! Remember the world's winner, the great glory of Macedonia, the great Alexander of Macedon; remember for the brave King Samoil, the Macedonian giant, for the marvelous Marko Kral, the Slavic glory, that Macedonian blood flowed through them; those of heavenly heights watch and bless our initiated work. To show worthy descendants of their descendants: to preserve their glorious names and to amaze the world with our courage, dexterity and self-sacrifice; to cut off from us the shameful yoke that suffocates us for five centuries.
-Anastas Jankov, 1902

In their proclamations the leaders of the Slavo-Macedonian Committee appeal to Alexander the Great as a national hero.
- George F. Abbott, The Tale of a Tour in Macedonia, 1903, Pg. 278

There are still those of today's inhabitants of Macedonia that do not consider themselves as Serbs or Bulgarians, but a separate ethnicity, probably descendants of the ancient Macedonians.
-Slishkovikj Jakov, Albania and Macedonia, 1904, Pg. 160

Poor Georgie! He spoke a Slav dialect, and was possibly a mixture of all the races that have ever ruled the peninsula, and all he had gained was a Mauser ball through his right hand in the name of Alexander the Great… A song was sung during the late Macedonian insurrection in which an eagle, who is soaring over the land, asks what is the cause of so much excitement, and is told that the sons of Alexander are rising.
--Mary Durham, The Burden of the Balkans, 1905, Pg. 6

King Marko is the son and pride of Macedonia and one of the three great conquerors who spread the name of their land far beyond its territories: (1) Alexander of Macedon spread the glory of Macedonia as far as the Central Asian rivers of Amu Darya [Oxus] and Syr Darya [Jaxartes], and also to India and the Indian Ocean; (2) The holy Cyril and Methodius spread the Macedonian word and script among all the Slavic peoples, and (3) King Marko placed under his authority and under that of the Macedonian muse all popular singers and peoples on the Balkan Peninsula, including you, the descendants of his sworn enemies.
-Krste Misirkov, 1923[/SIZE]

Thus, you can read for yourself that the Macedonians’ belief in their connection to ancient Macedonia and the ancient Macedonians is not a modern-day concoction; the modern-day interpretation is an affirmation and expansion of thought rooted in both Macedonian intellectuals and peasants in centuries past.

Second, all ethnic identities are modern constructions – Greek, Bulgarian, Albanian, Serb, German, French, Russian, Macedonian, and etc. The concept of ethnicity did not appear in intellectual literature in any meaningful form until the 19th century, and it did not infiltrate mainstream society until the middle of the 20th century. Further, to insist that Macedonian identity is not an “ethnic thing” because Macedonia is also a region has no logical basis. Which post-modern school of thought invented the idea that a name cannot be used in both a regional and ethnic context? It certainly is possible to have ethnic Macedonians and regional Macedonians – ask the over 2 million people who consider themselves ethnic Macedonians.

Let me put it differently. If Germany today is split into several pieces, after being conquered by its neighbors, and remains divided and occupied for several centuries, does this mean that ethnic Germans cannot exist in a region called Germany that is shared by several different countries? Or, being that Ireland is split between a country called Ireland and the United Kingdom, are the Irish of Ireland not ethnically Irish? Further, because the vast majority of Irishmen speak English, does this mean they cannot identify as Irish? Or, because the vast majority of Americans speak English, does this mean an ethnic American identity does not exist, or cannot develop? We all know that the Americans are a mish-mash of peoples from around the globe and not just from England. Therefore, is it really fair to describe the ethnic Macedonians racially as ‘Slavic’, as you implied, when ‘Slavic’ is not a racial identification but a linguistic characterization?

But I apologize for departing and return to the matter at hand. The term ‘Macedonians’ has been used throughout history to refer to the people of Macedonia no differently than ‘Bulgarians’ has been used to refer to the people of Bulgaria, ‘Serbians’ to the people of Serbia, and ‘Greeks’ to the people of Greece. That Macedonia is now located in three countries certainly gives the people who live in all three portions of Macedonia the opportunity to call themselves Macedonians; but it certainly does not imply that people in Macedonia cannot identify only as Macedonian. The ethnic Macedonian people, like neighboring Balkan ethnic groups, are a product of an amalgamation of different tribes throughout thousands of years of migrations and occupations. That the ethnic Macedonians in Macedonia choose not to affiliate with any other ethnic identity is a product not just of political aspirations, as you imply, but also of history, culture and other common bonds.

Third, putting aside historical insights and exercises in identity formation, let us turn to the mission of upholding democratic principles and values enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations. The Charter states the following as one of the UN’s purposes:

To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace.

In your commentary, you completely ignore the relevance of this in its application to modern day democracies. The world, as indicated by the UN Charter, is attempting to promote governing systems that respect equal rights and self-determination. Can you explain to us what is equal about letting all peoples except the Macedonians decide their country’s name and their ethnic identity? Further, can you explain why self-determination does not apply for the Macedonians, in this context, when it has applied to every other UN country?

When it comes to rights and freedoms – cherished democratic principles and values – history and social theories on identity have no place in deciding how, or to whom, to grant those rights and freedoms. The principle of equality is enshrined in the UN Charter and the name negotiations are an affront to the UN’s purpose. Macedonia has no territorial aspirations against Greece; Macedonia is not preventing Greeks from identifying as Macedonians or naming their northern province ‘Macedonia’; and Macedonia has not asked for superior treatment in the UN. Macedonia has asked for that which is automatically granted to all other UN members: the right to self-determine their own name and identity, and the right to be recognized as such by the UN. The UN should not violate one member’s rights and freedoms (Macedonia’s) simply because its name and identity annoys another member. Macedonia is not asking for preferential treatment; it’s asking for equal treatment.

In summary, your commentary has been a complete disservice to WIIW members and readers. Instead of providing a well-reasoned analysis on likely outcomes of the name negotiations and potential benefits and consequences, you strayed into repeating lousy but dangerous arguments emanating from chauvinists in Greece and Bulgaria. Identity is not a matter to be trifled with; your simplified denial of the ethnic Macedonian identity is a promotion of barbarous ideologies that brought Europe to its knees on several occasions in the 20th century. Let’s stray away from ideologies of denial and instead embrace an ideology of acceptance. It’s the only way to preserve peace in Europe.

Sincerely,
Victor Sinadinoski, Co-founder
League of Macedonian-Americans
[url]www.leagueofmacedonians.org[/url]
[/QUOTE]

Nice response Vic.

[QUOTE]Macedonian identity, when it comes to the name, is not ethnic but regional[/QUOTE]
He is a chip off the old block.
Where are the protests in Macedonia?

Deep down, we know the fyromians will whore their mothers for some chance of making money. Part of me understands this, but why do they keep lubing themselves in anticipation?

[SIZE="3"][B]Exhibit A = [U]European Slav[/U][/B][/SIZE]

[QUOTE]Greece and Macedonia edge towards solution to name dispute

16 January 2018

If an agreement is reached, the Macedonian government is in a strong position to approve it. From the Greek side it could be more challenging.

By Vladimir Gligorov

An agreement between Greece and Macedonia on the latter’s name is apparently at hand. According to reports, the agreement between the two countries has three key elements:

Issue No. 1: The name of the state. Provisionally, and only in international institutions, the name is currently the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (or FYROM). Greece cannot accept just Macedonia, while Macedonians cannot accept no mention of Macedonia in the name. The new agreement appears to pave the way for a permanent name: New Macedonia, a solution potentially acceptable to both sides.
Issue No. 2: Citizenship. For Macedonia, citizens of the state will be 'Macedonian', whereas for Greece they will be 'New Macedonian'. Internationally, there may be a split between the multilateral institutions (using the Greek version) and bilateral relations (using either one).
Issue No. 3: National identity. For Macedonians it will be Macedonian (there are also Albanians and a number of minorities). For Greece it will be 'Slavo-Macedonian'. Greece can also call its citizens Macedonian, if they so desire. The latter is probably irrelevant because of the strong preference within the country to use only Greek as a nationality, although it is possible that some will refer to themselves as Greek Macedonian.

Macedonian perspective: positive

The key tenets of the agreement, or a variant thereof, seem reasonable. Politically, the Macedonian government will face little opposition to this agreement. Macedonian identity, when it comes to the name, is not ethnic but regional - somebody living in the region of Macedonia. The nationalists (VMRO party) attempted to connect the identity to Alexander the Great and ancient Macedonians, which is unfounded and unreasonable (this is putting it mildly). In that context, New Macedonian is more accurate. The identity is really based on the political history of the independence movement in that particular region and on that territory and on the Macedonian language. It is not an ethnic thing (or racial, which is what the Slavic characterisation implies).

Greek population may be more resistant

The Greek government will have more of a problem selling the agreement domestically. This is because of the detour that the Conservatives took after the end of the Simitis-Papandreou government. The latter was close to an agreement essentially indistinguishable from the one which is being discussed now. However, for domestic reasons, Greece’s then-Conservative government needed to revive nationalism (as did VMRO), and subsequently stepped back from the agreement.

As a result, Prime Minister Tsipras may face a hostile public reaction. The argument he is making is the same one employed previously by Papandreou: that the agreement provides Greece with a leadership position in the Balkans and thus strengthens its influence in the EU. And the latter, Greece needs badly.[/QUOTE]



[SIZE="3"][B]Exhibit B = [U]Indigenous Macedonian[/U][/B][/SIZE]

[QUOTE]January 16, 2018

Dear Mr. Vladimir Gligorov,

The League of Macedonian-Americans (LOMA) is disappointed with your inaccurate portrayal of Greece’s dispute with Macedonia’s name. While your commentary is short, it disseminates many misconceptions about the ethnic Macedonian identity, negates and belittles the Macedonian perspective on identity, and ignores the importance and relevance of internationally accepted principles and values enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations.

First, it was not VMRO-DPMNE nationalists who first began to connect the ethnic Macedonian identity to Alexander the Great and the ancient Macedonians. The following observations are just a few from 19th and 20th century authors (not affiliated with VMRO-DPMNE of the 21st century) who acknowledged that the Macedonians believed that they were related to the ancient Macedonians, regardless of whether you or others actually think this to be the case:

We have many times heard from the Macedonists that they are not Bulgarians but Macedonians, descendants of the Ancient Macedonians.
-Petko Slaveykov, 1871

Our dear Macedonia, our dear homeland is calling: You, who are my faithful children; you, who like Aristotle and Alexander the Great, are my heirs; you, in whose veins Macedonian blood flows, do not leave me to die, help me. What a sad sight, real Macedonians, it would be if you were to witness my burial.
-Macedonian Provisional Government, March 23, 1881

Our fatherland Macedonia has her own history about her past, where one can see her might, glory, as well as her political subjugation under the rule of the then mighty Turkish Empire…Today, every Macedonian, when he mentions the name Aleksandar Makedonski, says: We once had King Alexander the Great. With those words he reminds oneself of the brightest period and glory of the Macedonian State. Aleksandar Makedonski stands before every Macedonian as national pride.
-Kosta Shahov, circa 1900

Macedonians! Remember the world's winner, the great glory of Macedonia, the great Alexander of Macedon; remember for the brave King Samoil, the Macedonian giant, for the marvelous Marko Kral, the Slavic glory, that Macedonian blood flowed through them; those of heavenly heights watch and bless our initiated work. To show worthy descendants of their descendants: to preserve their glorious names and to amaze the world with our courage, dexterity and self-sacrifice; to cut off from us the shameful yoke that suffocates us for five centuries.
-Anastas Jankov, 1902

In their proclamations the leaders of the Slavo-Macedonian Committee appeal to Alexander the Great as a national hero.
- George F. Abbott, The Tale of a Tour in Macedonia, 1903, Pg. 278

There are still those of today's inhabitants of Macedonia that do not consider themselves as Serbs or Bulgarians, but a separate ethnicity, probably descendants of the ancient Macedonians.
-Slishkovikj Jakov, Albania and Macedonia, 1904, Pg. 160

Poor Georgie! He spoke a Slav dialect, and was possibly a mixture of all the races that have ever ruled the peninsula, and all he had gained was a Mauser ball through his right hand in the name of Alexander the Great… A song was sung during the late Macedonian insurrection in which an eagle, who is soaring over the land, asks what is the cause of so much excitement, and is told that the sons of Alexander are rising.
--Mary Durham, The Burden of the Balkans, 1905, Pg. 6

King Marko is the son and pride of Macedonia and one of the three great conquerors who spread the name of their land far beyond its territories: (1) Alexander of Macedon spread the glory of Macedonia as far as the Central Asian rivers of Amu Darya [Oxus] and Syr Darya [Jaxartes], and also to India and the Indian Ocean; (2) The holy Cyril and Methodius spread the Macedonian word and script among all the Slavic peoples, and (3) King Marko placed under his authority and under that of the Macedonian muse all popular singers and peoples on the Balkan Peninsula, including you, the descendants of his sworn enemies.
-Krste Misirkov, 1923

Thus, you can read for yourself that the Macedonians’ belief in their connection to ancient Macedonia and the ancient Macedonians is not a modern-day concoction; the modern-day interpretation is an affirmation and expansion of thought rooted in both Macedonian intellectuals and peasants in centuries past.

Second, all ethnic identities are modern constructions – Greek, Bulgarian, Albanian, Serb, German, French, Russian, Macedonian, and etc. The concept of ethnicity did not appear in intellectual literature in any meaningful form until the 19th century, and it did not infiltrate mainstream society until the middle of the 20th century. Further, to insist that Macedonian identity is not an “ethnic thing” because Macedonia is also a region has no logical basis. Which post-modern school of thought invented the idea that a name cannot be used in both a regional and ethnic context? It certainly is possible to have ethnic Macedonians and regional Macedonians – ask the over 2 million people who consider themselves ethnic Macedonians.

Let me put it differently. If Germany today is split into several pieces, after being conquered by its neighbors, and remains divided and occupied for several centuries, does this mean that ethnic Germans cannot exist in a region called Germany that is shared by several different countries? Or, being that Ireland is split between a country called Ireland and the United Kingdom, are the Irish of Ireland not ethnically Irish? Further, because the vast majority of Irishmen speak English, does this mean they cannot identify as Irish? Or, because the vast majority of Americans speak English, does this mean an ethnic American identity does not exist, or cannot develop? We all know that the Americans are a mish-mash of peoples from around the globe and not just from England. Therefore, is it really fair to describe the ethnic Macedonians racially as ‘Slavic’, as you implied, when ‘Slavic’ is not a racial identification but a linguistic characterization?

But I apologize for departing and return to the matter at hand. The term ‘Macedonians’ has been used throughout history to refer to the people of Macedonia no differently than ‘Bulgarians’ has been used to refer to the people of Bulgaria, ‘Serbians’ to the people of Serbia, and ‘Greeks’ to the people of Greece. That Macedonia is now located in three countries certainly gives the people who live in all three portions of Macedonia the opportunity to call themselves Macedonians; but it certainly does not imply that people in Macedonia cannot identify only as Macedonian. The ethnic Macedonian people, like neighboring Balkan ethnic groups, are a product of an amalgamation of different tribes throughout thousands of years of migrations and occupations. That the ethnic Macedonians in Macedonia choose not to affiliate with any other ethnic identity is a product not just of political aspirations, as you imply, but also of history, culture and other common bonds.

Third, putting aside historical insights and exercises in identity formation, let us turn to the mission of upholding democratic principles and values enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations. The Charter states the following as one of the UN’s purposes:

To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace.

In your commentary, you completely ignore the relevance of this in its application to modern day democracies. The world, as indicated by the UN Charter, is attempting to promote governing systems that respect equal rights and self-determination. Can you explain to us what is equal about letting all peoples except the Macedonians decide their country’s name and their ethnic identity? Further, can you explain why self-determination does not apply for the Macedonians, in this context, when it has applied to every other UN country?

When it comes to rights and freedoms – cherished democratic principles and values – history and social theories on identity have no place in deciding how, or to whom, to grant those rights and freedoms. The principle of equality is enshrined in the UN Charter and the name negotiations are an affront to the UN’s purpose. Macedonia has no territorial aspirations against Greece; Macedonia is not preventing Greeks from identifying as Macedonians or naming their northern province ‘Macedonia’; and Macedonia has not asked for superior treatment in the UN. Macedonia has asked for that which is automatically granted to all other UN members: the right to self-determine their own name and identity, and the right to be recognized as such by the UN. The UN should not violate one member’s rights and freedoms (Macedonia’s) simply because its name and identity annoys another member. Macedonia is not asking for preferential treatment; it’s asking for equal treatment.

In summary, your commentary has been a complete disservice to WIIW members and readers. Instead of providing a well-reasoned analysis on likely outcomes of the name negotiations and potential benefits and consequences, you strayed into repeating lousy but dangerous arguments emanating from chauvinists in Greece and Bulgaria. Identity is not a matter to be trifled with; your simplified denial of the ethnic Macedonian identity is a promotion of barbarous ideologies that brought Europe to its knees on several occasions in the 20th century. Let’s stray away from ideologies of denial and instead embrace an ideology of acceptance. It’s the only way to preserve peace in Europe.

Sincerely,
Victor Sinadinoski, Co-founder
League of Macedonian-Americans
[url]www.leagueofmacedonians.org[/url][/QUOTE]

Well written Vic

Јас незнам оти диаспората уште си ја чyка главата за името и македонскиот идентитет кога граѓаните од република Македонија ни на умот не ги ставаат разговорите за името.

Свестете се народе македонски, еден ден ке станите од кревет со прстот в'yста и курот в'гас и ништо друго.

[QUOTE=kompir;171405]Јас незнам оти диаспората уште си ја чyка главата за името и македонскиот идентитет кога граѓаните од република Македонија ни на умот не ги ставаат разговорите за името.

Свестете се народе македонски, еден ден ке станите од кревет со прстот в'yста и курот в'гас и ништо друго.[/QUOTE]

vistina e taka?