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-   -   Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1556)

Carlin 10-21-2018 07:36 PM

[QUOTE=Pelagonija;177422]Regarding your concerns what exactly do you believe will be the consequence?[/QUOTE]

I don't know what the consequences might be. All I'm asking is why are the Russians doing this now? Why are they so concerned about the constitutional name at this point ([I]After[/I] it passed in the parliament)? Why didn't they stand by and support Macedonia 30 years ago, and fight for the constitutional name in the UN or veto (if that was even possible) any [I]references[/I] or moves at renaming?

(Now it's 30 years too late.)

Risto the Great 10-21-2018 07:41 PM

[QUOTE=Pelagonija;177422]Regarding your concerns what exactly do you believe will be the consequence?[/QUOTE]

I think the consequence would be nothing more than a perpetuating a great joke. Macedonians relying on the Russians to preserve their UN name of FYROM. I mean, seriously, people will be demanding to be called FYROM as sign of respect soon enough. People have fought under that name and flag!

It's utterly cringe worthy and yet another distraction from the cancer in Macedonian society.

Anyway, (just for clarification), aside from all the press suggesting bags of money were paid to the sellout politicians, is there any actual evidence?

There is clear evidence that politicians were let out of jail to vote. This is difficult to believe possible unless they were going to vote in favour of the treachery. Legally this violates every normal process, but from a Macedonian perspective it is all as per normal.

Carlin 10-21-2018 07:54 PM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;177424]I think the consequence would be nothing more than a perpetuating a great joke. Macedonians relying on the Russians to preserve their UN name of FYROM. I mean, seriously, people will be demanding to be called FYROM as sign of respect soon enough. People have fought under that name and flag!

It's utterly cringe worthy and yet another distraction from the cancer in Macedonian society.

Anyway, (just for clarification), aside from all the press suggesting bags of money were paid to the sellout politicians, is there any actual evidence?

There is clear evidence that politicians were let out of jail to vote. This is difficult to believe possible unless they were going to vote in favour of the treachery. Legally this violates every normal process, but from a Macedonian perspective it is all as per normal.[/QUOTE]

At least two MPs (if not more) have come out and said openly they voted with their convictions, and are not regretting their decision:

[url]https://republika.mk/972673[/url]

[url]https://novatv.mk/ismajloska-starova-glasav-po-svoe-ubeduvane-bez-zakani-i-ne-se-kaam/[/url]

All 8 DPMNE MPs who voted are apparently under 24 hour police protection. The MPs did not request it - it was a decision taken by the police:

[url]https://www.24.mk/24-chasovna-policiska-zashtita-za-osumtemina-pratenici-od-opozicijata[/url]

Update:

[B]Sasho Vasilevski[/B], MP of VMRO-DPMNE who was excluded from the party after voting to join the amendments to the Constitution, in a TV21 statement explains why he voted against the party's position.

- With pure thought and with courage and with all the arguments, I decided that Macedonia had the only way towards European integration. The future for our families, for our country and for our perspectives as Republic of Macedonia, once and for all to put an end to the divisions between patriots and traitors, between Macedonians and Albanians. We are one family, which needs to walk together towards EU and NATO integration, with the full support of [B]our friends from Washington[/B] - says Vasilevski.

[B]In a televised statement, the lawmakers who voted denied they were bribed and they say they have voted in their conviction and add that they are 24 hours under police protection due to the threats they receive from Friday.[/B]

URL:
[url]https://fokus.mk/vasilevski-glasav-za-da-stavime-kraj-na-podelbite-megu-patrioti-i-predavnitsi-megu-makedontsi-i-albantsi/[/url]

Pelagonija 10-21-2018 08:40 PM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;177424]I think the consequence would be nothing more than a perpetuating a great joke. Macedonians relying on the Russians to preserve their UN name of FYROM. I mean, seriously, people will be demanding to be called FYROM as sign of respect soon enough. People have fought under that name and flag!

It's utterly cringe worthy and yet another distraction from the cancer in Macedonian society.

Anyway, (just for clarification), aside from all the press suggesting bags of money were paid to the sellout politicians, is there any actual evidence?

There is clear evidence that politicians were let out of jail to vote. This is difficult to believe possible unless they were going to vote in favour of the treachery. Legally this violates every normal process, but from a Macedonian perspective it is all as per normal.[/QUOTE]

Oh I see.. Russia keeps the FYROM name in the UN, Macedonia signs agreement and then calls themselves NMK, NATO and EU will also call them FYROM NMK, I would love for that to happen, I think it would suit the spastics of NMK. They will have two names FYROM and NMK. I see no issue with that.

As for evidence re bribes, no such recordings or evidence currently available. I would like to know why is this an issue to anyone on this forum? Did people vote no in the referendum? Did even one person protest outside of parliament on the weekend?

vicsinad 10-21-2018 08:48 PM

Levica calls for mass civil resistance. We'll see what it amounts to.

[URL="http://www.minareport.com/2018/10/21/with-dpne-now-history-levica-announces-public-uprising-against-jess-bailys-fascist-government-junta/"]http://www.minareport.com/2018/10/21/with-dpne-now-history-levica-announces-public-uprising-against-jess-bailys-fascist-government-junta/[/URL]

What happened in the Assembly of the Republic of Macedonia was only a theatrical play where the tyranny of political elites once again showed its ugly face masked as “democracy”!

Individuals from both criminal political associations of SDSM and DPMNE, who are today in the Macedonian Parliament, allegedly as public representatives, after the failed referendum on “Northern Macedonia” have no longer any legitimacy to decide on changing the constitutional name of the Republic against the will of the people , writes in its Declaration Levica.

“Political corruption can not produce legitimate decisions that will represent the will of the people! Corrupt MPs, due to their criminal records, are susceptible to blackmail and bribe additionally sabotaging their political ability to independently and, in accordance with the will of the people, make legitimate decisions in the Assembly of the Republic of Macedonia. Macedonia today is an occupied, captive state, and the behind-the-scenes anti-democratic games of both political criminal hordes serve one and the same master – capital and money.

They (DPMNE) make noise, act as fake opposition, but when it comes time for the implementation of the vassal fascist decisions of their imperial masters, which the people explicitly refused, these structures – through mutual protection and behind closed doors – decide the fate of the people in accordance with requests by the occupier. Therefore, references and calls for rule of law and established standards and procedures no longer make sense, because this deregulated governing mafia has placed all authorities under its control and deals with political opponents using the apparatus of state coercion and repression.

Because of this, we call for massive civil resistance against all those involved in this constitutional-political crisis and its future overcoming by ultimately fulfilling the following requirements:

● Unconditional suspension of the unconstitutional and illegal government initiative for changing the Constitution of the Republic of Macedonia and annulment of the rejected so-called. “Prespa Agreement”;

● Urgent dissolution of Parliament and scheduling early parliamentary elections;

● Forming a transitional technical government with a limited mandate solely for fair and democratic elections, writes Levica in the Declaration of Resistance.

Levica announces that the party will return to the streets in the future and will use all parliamentary and non-parliamentary ways of political struggle in order to restore the kidnapped sovereignty of the people.

The party announces that mass anti-government protests will be organized under the motto of the #People’s-Self-Defense (#NarodnaSamoodbrana), in front of Parliament, where the grave diggers of ASNOM are sitting.

Resistance is our duty, wrote the Presidium of “Levica”.

Gocka 10-21-2018 10:31 PM

So far Levica has been the only true beacon of hope. They seem morally grounded, which is probably why they have virtually no support in NMK. God forbid they elected anyone with any sort of principles. We haven't the type of left that Levica represents probably since shortly after the revolutionary period.

From a political strategy point of view, I have trouble finding a route for them to grow in support. I have met very few people in NMK that espouse the views of a proper left, maybe a little in the youth but still the vast majority seem to lean towards the SDSM former communist brand of leftism. From a political game theory perspective, who do they flip into to being their supporters?

Other than attracting a few people based on an anti Prespa agreement stance, I fear their political platform doesn't appeal to many of those morons in NMK.

One would have hoped that the Levica brand of nationalist leftism could have replaced the clearly destructive SDSM brand of leftism, but so far no dice.

Personally I hope they find a route to power.


[QUOTE=vicsinad;177427]Levica calls for mass civil resistance. We'll see what it amounts to.

[URL="http://www.minareport.com/2018/10/21/with-dpne-now-history-levica-announces-public-uprising-against-jess-bailys-fascist-government-junta/"]http://www.minareport.com/2018/10/21/with-dpne-now-history-levica-announces-public-uprising-against-jess-bailys-fascist-government-junta/[/URL]

What happened in the Assembly of the Republic of Macedonia was only a theatrical play where the tyranny of political elites once again showed its ugly face masked as “democracy”!

Individuals from both criminal political associations of SDSM and DPMNE, who are today in the Macedonian Parliament, allegedly as public representatives, after the failed referendum on “Northern Macedonia” have no longer any legitimacy to decide on changing the constitutional name of the Republic against the will of the people , writes in its Declaration Levica.

“Political corruption can not produce legitimate decisions that will represent the will of the people! Corrupt MPs, due to their criminal records, are susceptible to blackmail and bribe additionally sabotaging their political ability to independently and, in accordance with the will of the people, make legitimate decisions in the Assembly of the Republic of Macedonia. Macedonia today is an occupied, captive state, and the behind-the-scenes anti-democratic games of both political criminal hordes serve one and the same master – capital and money.

They (DPMNE) make noise, act as fake opposition, but when it comes time for the implementation of the vassal fascist decisions of their imperial masters, which the people explicitly refused, these structures – through mutual protection and behind closed doors – decide the fate of the people in accordance with requests by the occupier. Therefore, references and calls for rule of law and established standards and procedures no longer make sense, because this deregulated governing mafia has placed all authorities under its control and deals with political opponents using the apparatus of state coercion and repression.

Because of this, we call for massive civil resistance against all those involved in this constitutional-political crisis and its future overcoming by ultimately fulfilling the following requirements:

● Unconditional suspension of the unconstitutional and illegal government initiative for changing the Constitution of the Republic of Macedonia and annulment of the rejected so-called. “Prespa Agreement”;

● Urgent dissolution of Parliament and scheduling early parliamentary elections;

● Forming a transitional technical government with a limited mandate solely for fair and democratic elections, writes Levica in the Declaration of Resistance.

Levica announces that the party will return to the streets in the future and will use all parliamentary and non-parliamentary ways of political struggle in order to restore the kidnapped sovereignty of the people.

The party announces that mass anti-government protests will be organized under the motto of the #People’s-Self-Defense (#NarodnaSamoodbrana), in front of Parliament, where the grave diggers of ASNOM are sitting.

Resistance is our duty, wrote the Presidium of “Levica”.[/QUOTE]

Who is the dumb fuck that came up with the 81 vs 80 argument? They are clearly confused and comparing the situation to a 60/60 split in which there isn't a majority until the 1 extra vote switches, but a 2/3 majority is already A MAJORITY and mathematically 80/120 is 2/3rds!!! HOW DO MY GENES ORIGINATE FROM THEIR!!!!

Carlin 10-21-2018 11:10 PM

[QUOTE=Gocka;177428]Who is the dumb fuck that came up with the 81 vs 80 argument? They are clearly confused and comparing the situation to a 60/60 split in which there isn't a majority until the 1 extra vote switches, but a 2/3 majority is already A MAJORITY and mathematically 80/120 is 2/3rds!!! HOW DO MY GENES ORIGINATE FROM THEIR!!!![/QUOTE]

I think this might have started with Karakamisheva.

[url]https://republika.mk/972249[/url]

Karposh 10-22-2018 04:55 AM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;177416]
Here, read this:
[url]http://www.minareport.com/2018/10/21/krsto-mukoski-from-singing-the-national-anthem-to-treason-2m/[/url]

Hilarious for anyone who isn't Macedonian! Plenty of those in Macedonia it would appear.[/QUOTE]

Risto, regarding the €2m bribes, is there any way of confirming these claims. I'm not doubting them but it would be nice to hear some credible sources. As for the article itself, far from being funny, it was actually quite sad. These so called chest-thumping patriots behaving no better than, as the MINA reporter so colourfully put it, prostitutes. Well, all I can is my bubble of delusional optimism for that place has well and truly burst. It's official, we're a nation of whores. At all levels - from as high up as the Macedonian Parliament to as far down as the little babichka in Bitola who decides to pocket $50 from the $100 sent as a wedding gift for her own niece (I saw this despicable act with my own eyes when I handed the very letter to the said person). So, when all is said and done, changing the name of your own country in the hope of securing benefits is small fry for these people - They will sooner sell their own mothers (to the highest bidder) - literally!

Pelagonija 10-22-2018 05:01 AM

[QUOTE=vicsinad;177427]Levica calls for mass civil resistance. We'll see what it amounts to.

[URL="http://www.minareport.com/2018/10/21/with-dpne-now-history-levica-announces-public-uprising-against-jess-bailys-fascist-government-junta/"]http://www.minareport.com/2018/10/21/with-dpne-now-history-levica-announces-public-uprising-against-jess-bailys-fascist-government-junta/[/URL][/QUOTE]

We already have the left governing NMK. Socialism is alive in NMK Under the motto zivot za site, the Tirana platform, gay rights and anti nationalist programs currently taking place.

Karposh 10-22-2018 05:29 AM

[QUOTE=Pelagonija;177438]We already have the left governing NMK. Socialism is alive in NMK Under the motto zivot za site, the Tirana platform, gay rights and anti nationalist programs currently taking place.[/QUOTE]

I was actually thinking that too but didn't mention it. "Levica" (Left Wing) - What a stupid name for, what I am assuming is meant to be a patriotic people's party. Everything that's wrong with the world today is because of left-wing political ideology. Are they really left-leaning or is it just an unfortunate choice for their name? Similar to the unfortunate name given to the Macedonian Minority's Political Party in Greece - The "Rainbow" Party.


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