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-   -   Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1556)

Stojacanec 09-12-2018 09:44 AM

Boycotting strategy is highly risky and has a high potential for disastrous results.
The mood is not that one sided where boycotting would result in a low voter turnout and an invalid referendum.

All the shiptari will show up and vote yes therefore you don't need that many more Macedonians to make 51%.

Send a clear message and vote No and put it beyond doubt.

Why does a simple NO vote seem so difficult??

Gocka 09-12-2018 10:00 AM

A few reasons, which just voting No does not suffice.

The referendum questions is essentially asking, are you for EU and NATO membership, then qualifying it with, by accepting the Prespa agreement. So no where does it plainly say do you accept a name change. So in that regard it is dishonest.

Then there is the means by which the referendum came about. The entire Prespa agreement is unconstitutional and thus invalid. Meaning the referendum itself is unconstitutional and invalid.

Based on those first two reasons, even voting in the referendum would constitute legitimizing the whole process that led to the Prespa agreement and thus legitimize the agreement itself. So in principle a boycott is good.

Then there is the math problem. Even if everyone who wanted to vote NO did so, it's not a certainty that a majority will vote NO. So by participating and voting NO, you do two things to your own peril. Risk pushing turnout high and legitimizing the process, and you risk losing the actual vote.

The only real option here was to note vote, and cause anarchy during the voting process.


[QUOTE=Stojacanec;176291]Boycotting strategy is highly risky and has a high potential for disastrous results.
The mood is not that one sided where boycotting would result in a low voter turnout and an invalid referendum.

All the shiptari will show up and vote yes therefore you don't need that many more Macedonians to make 51%.

Send a clear message and vote No and put it beyond doubt.

Why does a simple NO vote seem so difficult??[/QUOTE]

Niko777 09-12-2018 12:37 PM

[B][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="5"]DPMNE's Official Decision on how to vote in the Referendum: "Everyone should make their own decision!"[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B] :14::14::14::6:

Gocka 09-12-2018 03:55 PM

LMAO, suck on that all you DPMNE apologists. They don't even have the balls to ask people to vote no, let alone more.

[QUOTE=Niko777;176296][B][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="5"]DPMNE's Official Decision on how to vote in the Referendum: "Everyone should make their own decision!"[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B] :14::14::14::6:[/QUOTE]

Soldier of Macedon 09-13-2018 01:50 AM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;176272]They know what they are. They don't care what they will become.[/QUOTE]
That is the argument that Stojance Angelov was making during a recent debate with Filip Petrovski. "Jas uste ke bidam Makedonec", or something to that effect. This coming from a guy who was once a celebrated general and national hero, to forming a party (ironically called Dostoinstvo, meaning Dignity) claiming to be against any name change, to joining forces with Zaev and urging people to vote yes in the referendum. Filip Petrovski seemed to be advocating for that old dual-name formula, our constitutional name for international use and let Greece call us whatever they want. There is not a single political figure of substantial influence in Macedonia that is for a complete cessation of negotiations with those racist animals who form the ruling class down south.

Tomche Makedonche 09-13-2018 03:27 AM

[url]https://www.rferl.org/a/opposition-leader-tells-macedonians-to-vote-with-their-conscience-in-name-change-referendum/29486580.html[/url]

[B][U]Opposition Leader Tells Macedonians To Vote 'With Their Conscience' In Name-Change Referendum
[/U][/B]
Macedonia's conservative opposition leader has told supporters [B][U]to vote[/U][/B] [B]"with their conscience"[/B] in the upcoming referendum on changing the country's name.

The vote was up to "each individual, with their conscience and morals" to "decide what's best for their family and our beloved Macedonia," VMRO-DPMNE leader Hristijan Mickoski said in comments published on the party's website on September 12.

Mickoski, whose party opposes a deal Macedonia signed with Greece in June to change the name of the former Yugoslav republic, [B][U]did not call for a boycott of the referendum[/U][/B] set for September 30.

The deal changes Macedonia's name to the Republic of North Macedonia, ending a dispute with Greece that has lasted for decades.

Macedonia's center-left government of Prime Minister Zoran Zaev launched its referendum campaign earlier this week, urging people to support the name change.

The campaign has been supported by EU leaders and the United States.

If the name change is approved in the referendum, and Macedonia's constitution is changed, it will open the door for Macedonia to join the EU and NATO.

U.S. Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis will embark on September 16 on a trip to Skopje to "show U.S. support for Macedonia during NATO accession and continued U.S. commitment to peace and security in the region," the Defense Department said in a September 12 statement.

Mattis announced he would travel to Macedonia this weekend and he voiced concern about possible acts of "mischief" by Russia to try and block Macedonia's path to NATO membership.

U.S. Senator Ron Johnson, who sits on a Senate subcommittee overseeing European and regional security, traveled to the Macedonian capital on September 9.

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg, Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz, and German Chancellor Angela Merkel have also visited.

Risto the Great 09-13-2018 04:08 AM

A clever move.
The DPmNE party has been relegated to irrelevance now and Macedonia's true masters only want to play with SDSm now. The statement below opens the door for DPmNE in the future. I am sure they are hoping to be the preferred lapdog in the future by not rejecting this treachery.

[QUOTE=Niko777;176296][B][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="5"]DPMNE's Official Decision on how to vote in the Referendum: "Everyone should make their own decision!"[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B] :14::14::14::6:[/QUOTE]

Soldier of Macedon 09-13-2018 04:20 AM

[QUOTE]Macedonia's conservative opposition leader has told supporters to vote "with their conscience" in the upcoming referendum on changing the country's name.[/QUOTE]
This clown is a conservative? A misnomer if there ever was one.
[QUOTE]The vote was up to "each individual, with their conscience and morals" to "decide what's best for their family and our beloved Macedonia," VMRO-DPMNE leader Hristijan Mickoski said in comments published on the party's website on September 12.[/QUOTE]
Hedging his bets like a coward. Somebody should ask him what he is going to do personally, vote yes, no or boycott.
[QUOTE]Mattis announced he would travel to Macedonia this weekend and he voiced concern about possible acts of "mischief" by Russia to try and block Macedonia's path to NATO membership.[/QUOTE]
Even if Russia creates "mischief" to halt Macedonia's direction towards NATO, how is that different to what the U.S. and EU are doing by essentially coercing Macedonia towards national suicide?

Tomche Makedonche 09-13-2018 06:54 AM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;176312]Even if Russia creates "mischief" to halt Macedonia's direction towards NATO, how is that different to what the U.S. and EU are doing by essentially coercing Macedonia towards national suicide?[/QUOTE]

Thatís the kind of pie in your face obvious shit that doesnít seem to register at all to these self righteous pricks

Tomche Makedonche 09-13-2018 07:19 AM

[url]https://www.mia.mk/Mobile/en/Home/RenderSingleNews/289?newsID=134453205[/url]

[B]Zaev in first European Parliament address by Macedonian PM in Macedonian Language[/B]

Strasbourg, 13 September 2018 (MIA) - Prime Minister Zoran Zaev addressed Thursday the European Parliament at the invitation of EP President Antonio Tajani.

Zaev said the address was the first by a Macedonian Prime Minister in Macedonian language in the European Parliament.

"This is a historic moment for the Macedonian people. This is the first time for as prime minister from the country to deliver a speech before the European Parliament in his own mother tongue," said Zaev.

He explained the importance of the Prespa Agreement and thanked Greek counterpart Alexis Tsipras.

According to him, the September 30 referendum is a vote for the country's second independence.

"For the Republic of Macedonia, this is an opportunity that we have waited for a long time. In 1991 we voted for independence at a referendum. Now, we must make the next step: create a real opportunity to become NATO's 30th member and launch the EU accession negotiations, chapter by chapter. The September 30 vote is much more than a referendum on the Prespa Agreement. It is one for the future, for our second independence," stressed PM Zaev.

Similar to PM Tsipras a couple of days ago, he noted that the name issue settlement can serve as model for solution of other bilateral disputes.

"We want to serve as an example and inspiration for settlement of all bilateral issues in the Western Balkans, giving strong support to sustainable solutions based on European values and international law, permanently stabilizing the region and preparing it for EU integration," stressed Zaev.

He elaborated on the reasons why "there is no strong EU without a successful Balkans".

"A successful Balkans is one integrated in the EU. This vision has motivated us to make the historic step and stimulate processes of reconciliation, building unity and alliances in the region," said Zaev.

He referred to the region's importance in the migrant crisis management, saying investment in the Balkans is an investment for a stable, strong and united Europe.

The PM assured MEPs that Macedonia is doing everything to achieve European Union standards.

"We are aware of the recommendations, they are our priorities: independent and democratic institutions, rule of law and fight against corruption, professional public administration in service of citizens," added Zaev.

He said Macedonia is a successful European story, an authentic model of functional multiethnic democracy.

"The country is living the European slogan 'United in Diversities' on a daily basis," noted Zaev.

He drew a parallel between the crisis within the European Union and the political crisis that Macedonia has gone through, saying it is a struggle of open society against authoritarian nationalism.

"The political crisis we have gone through was in fact one for values, similar to that in European and global terms - struggle for liberal values of rule of law, human rights and liberties, democratic governance, open economy, against authoritarian nationalism," said Zaev.

He said that young people in Macedonia dream of being a part of the European family.

"Yes, our people want to be part of this family. We feel as Europeans. Back in 1991, I was 17 and dreaming of being part of the European family.

Young people in the country still have this dream. Now, 27 years later, as PM, on behalf of the citizens of my country, I speak in the European Parliament in my Macedonian language," concluded Zaev.


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