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-   -   Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1556)

Tomche Makedonche 02-27-2018 08:14 PM

[url]https://www.rferl.org/a/macedonia-greece-zaev-says-gave-4-options-name-dispute/29066221.html[/url]

[B]Macedonians Protest Name Change As PM Offers Greece Four Options [/B]

Several thousand Macedonians have taken to the streets in the capital, Skopje, to protest against a possible change of their country's name, as required by Greece to end a long-running dispute.

Defying freezing temperatures and snow on February 27, the protesters, organized by a network of several civic associations, held umbrellas in the colors of the Macedonian flag and chanted "Long live Macedonia!" and "Macedonians!"

The protesters demanded an end to ongoing talks between the Macedonian and Greek governments aimed at resolving the decades-long dispute.

The former Yugoslav republic has been holding extensive talks with neighboring Greece in recent months in an effort to resolve the dispute over the name Macedonia, which Greeks say implies territorial claims to a northern region of Greece.

The protest was organized by the World Macedonian Congress and several other Macedonian associations.

They accused the government of Prime Minister Zoran Zaev and the main opposition nationalist VMRO-DPMNE party of betraying Macedonia's national interests.

Political parties, including the VMRO-DPMNE, said they had nothing to do with the protest.

Zaev earlier said he had offered four options to Greece in an effort to resolve the dispute.

Zaev said in an interview with Reuters in London on February 27 that he had suggested to Greek officials that Macedonia officially be called one of the following: the Republic of North Macedonia, Republic of Upper Macedonia, Republic of Vardar Macedonia, or the Republic of Macedonia (Skopje).

The name issue has greatly hindered Skopje's efforts to gain entry to the European Union and NATO, the latter of which has been blocked by Greece.

Zaev said that Greece had some "more preferred options and some not so preferred options [in terms of the name]," but was satisfied with the options he has proposed.

He said one remaining question was whether there is "a real need" to change the Macedonian Constitution, as Greece also objects to a few articles of it that it says could also imply a claim to Greek territory.

Zaev said Macedonians were "prepared to do a change [of the constitution]" but added that it would be "very difficult."

The Greek and Macedonian foreign ministers are to hold talks on the issue in March, and Zaev also plans to meet with Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras that month.

Tomche Makedonche 02-27-2018 08:18 PM

[B][U]NOTE:[/U][/B] Racial slurs have been edited and edits noted in Italic

[QUOTE][url]http://greece.greekreporter.com/2018/02/27/zaev-reveals-four-options-for-new-fyrom-name/[/url]

[B]Zaev Reveals ‘Four Options’ for New [I]Macedonian[/I] Name[/B]

The leader of the [I]Republic of Macedonia[/I] on Tuesday outlined four new names for the country he claims are on the talks table with Greece.

They are: Republic of North Macedonia; Republic of Upper Macedonia; Republic of Vardar Macedonia; and Republic of Macedonia (Skopje).

In an interview with Reuters, Zoran Zaev also said his country was open to amending parts of its constitution — a key demand by Athens — but did not suggest wholesale changes were possible.

Speaking on London at a summit about the Western Balkan states, Zaev was quoted by Reuters as saying:

[B][U]“They (Greece) don’t have a region of the Republic of Macedonia, they are the republic of Greece. And inside (our country) how we use it to communicate, from ministries to municipalities and other institutions, is really our right and doesn’t have implications for anybody.”[/U][/B]

Greece’s northern neighbor is hoping the long-running name dispute can be resolved by the summer ahead of EU and NATO summits.

[I]Macedonia's[/I] membership of both bodies is currently vetoed by Greece, unhappy at what it sees as the expropriation of its culture and identity by the government in [I]Macedonia[/I].[/QUOTE]

Risto the Great 02-27-2018 08:24 PM

Zaev is calling it fake news?
Sounds right up his alley to me.

I'm glad WMC also called out DPmNE for their complicity.

Gocka 02-27-2018 10:10 PM

You're lot was abandoned long ago my friend. At this point exiles from Egej and Pirin Macedonia are not even an after thought to people in FYROM, they don't exist. So its not surprising at all.

Like you say all the time, they are just so clever.

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;172169]It's like winning a secret game because of being so extremely clever. But not.

I'm none of those names by the way. A greater divide between real Macedonians and those Fyromians.[/QUOTE]


This probably isn't going to be the first time I've told you this either: Go Fuck yourself you plate smashing baboon.

First of all, you don't know if I vote or not.

Second, the issue is not their intervening powers which are ample should they choose to use them. The problem we have with them is the choices they make or do not make. Their understanding of or lack there of on certain issues. Their constant deferral of responsibility for the state of the country they live in.

Don't even begin to pretend that you care enough about our plight to really understand what exactly our issue is with.

For the life of me I can't understand how pathetic your life must be to waste time on a forum that is exclusively Macedonian discussing internal Macedonian issues.

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;172176]This isn’t the first time I remind you that you’re no different than your compatriots.

You may be elsewhere, but you have the same citizenship and voting rights. [B]Your intervening powers are exactly the same.[/B]

A 20-something student in Skopje or a 50-something accountant in Ohrid cannot do more or less than you. He can vote for the right party or even be more active politically, he can go to demonstrations or not (just like you), he can write something on the internet (just like you), he can even become a politician himself (so can you).


---[/QUOTE]

Phoenix 02-27-2018 11:20 PM

[QUOTE=Gocka;172183]...This probably isn't going to be the first time I've told you this either: Go Fuck yourself you plate smashing baboon.

First of all, you don't know if I vote or not.

Second, the issue is not their intervening powers which are ample should they choose to use them. The problem we have with them is the choices they make or do not make. Their understanding of or lack there of on certain issues. Their constant deferral of responsibility for the state of the country they live in.

Don't even begin to pretend that you care enough about our plight to really understand what exactly our issue is with.

[COLOR="Red"][B][I]For the life of me I can't understand how pathetic your life must be to waste time on a forum that is exclusively Macedonian discussing internal Macedonian issues[/I][/B][/COLOR].[/QUOTE]

I would say it is his 'job' to be here...

Solun 02-28-2018 03:53 AM

[QUOTE=Vangelovski;172170]You're drawing a non-existent bow.

If they were so concerned about federalisation, why weren't they protesting since 2001 and the Framework Agreement?

If they were so concerned about democratic processes, why weren't they protesting since decades before?

The fact is that they're DPMNE stooges and now they're only crap talking to try and make themselves out to be some sort of heroes. And fyromians are lapping it up, using it as yet another excuse to do nothing - "we can't do anything cause some opera singer went to jail for something completely unrelated but we're all pretending they're patriots now".[/QUOTE]

I don't think we are going to agree on the level of party politics involved in those now attending rallies. My view is that some of those people really do care.

I do however understand the reason you now make the generalisation that anybody now protesting is a DPMNE stooge. I take it you include last night's rally in your reference.

I really do hope you are not also referring to those who attended the Canberra rally as DPMNE stooges.

Karposh 02-28-2018 04:29 AM

[url]http://vecer.mk/makedonija/video-sveshtenik-na-mpc-od-protestot-narodot-izleze-da-si-go-bara-svoeto[/url]

The above link is to a YouTube video that Vecer put out of the recent protest in Skopje. Looks like a decent turnout considering the conditions. Some interesting comments from the crowd when asked “why are you protesting today?”

Pay particular attention to the guy at the 35 second mark. His accent makes it hard to make out a couple of words but he cracked me up:

[U]Protester[/U]: [I]Our demands are clear and they are for Macedonia.[/I]
[U]Journo[/U]: [I]What about Macedonia?[/I]
[U]Protester[/U]: [I]The Macedonian name must not be sold off and our identity must not be given up. We are neither Bulgarians nor Greeks. We are Macedonians.[/I]
[U]Journo[/U]: [I]Who wants to sell the name?[/I]
[U]Protester[/U]: [B][I]Zaev...He can go[/I][/B] (indiscernible) [B][I]and sell his wife.[/I][/B]

Also noteworthy is the priest at the 3:10 minute mark when he says that no political party was involved with the rally last night and that it was all the people.

Vangelovski 02-28-2018 05:12 AM

[QUOTE=Solun;172196]I don't think we are going to agree on the level of party politics involved in those now attending rallies. My view is that some of those people really do care.

I do however understand the reason you now make the generalisation that anybody now protesting is a DPMNE stooge. I take it you include last night's rally in your reference.

I really do hope you are not also referring to those who attended the Canberra rally as DPMNE stooges.[/QUOTE]I think you're completely missing my point. My point is that those people that are in jail are not in jail for resisting a name change. Its another Macedonian conspiracy theory.

Pelagonija 02-28-2018 06:27 AM

Does anyone know what the turn out was like? Hundred? Thousands?

Niko777 02-28-2018 09:46 AM

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;172177]A few hours ago, Zaev denied he made these comments.[/QUOTE]

That's going to be difficult to deny when there are clips from the interview circulating on facebook.


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